Question to those who say being gay is a choice?

originally posted by: agenda51

For the marriage thing..the last thing they should have done was the route they took. its basically turned 99% of the hetro population anti gay. Not sure thats a win but if they want to think it is they can live in fantasy land all they want. I am sure it will keep the hate going for a long, long time and true acceptance of the gay lifestyle is about as popular as affirmative action right now LOL. But hey...you can get a piece of paper saying your married so whatever. After seeing what people go through with divorce i am not sure thats a win either though.

The reason the marriage thing is a big deal is because "civil unions" didn't have the same privileges that marriage had when it came to legal issues, taxes, federal benefits and things like that. Had Civil Unions and Marriage been the same from a legal position I'm sure that wouldn't have caused such a problem either. It was the old "Separate but Equal" BS again which isn't an honest from of "Equal Rights Under the Law".

That is a legitimate argument too.

put it this way. If a whole lot of people hate gays in their hearts and minds its just that much longer before they are truly accepted in society which is or should be the primary goal if ever. I am still amazed they continue to attack and demonize christianity. so not only have they pissed off the christians they have also the muslim religion to contend with and they are not to friendly either.

Well, considering that Some Christians have been marginalizing them for decades that might be where all the animosity is coming from on their part. At least here the Christians don't have the legal right to kill you just for being gay but that's how it is in some other countries. Imagine that, we are in the year 2015 and people are still being murdered just for being who they are. Pretty archaic if you ask me.

Christians here are however trying to pass laws to legally discriminate against gays though and once again that goes against "Equal Rights Under the Law" so again, there is a legitimate argument there.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

yeah I guess i went off topic with things a bit. apologies to the OP.

glad you like honestly. Now please to try and get me banned LOL. seems like any time topics like this come up people get vicious. I like the discussion though. as i said its always interesting. this forum is pretty mature. nobody has called me a neonate or terrorist Hell bent on bringing the wrath of Christ down on the sinners of the world. I am not really religious by the way.

With the judgement thing. yeah I guess I judge. I have never met anyone who didnt actually regardless of them saying "dont Judge!". I dont hold grudges though and its fairly tough to get me hating to the point of wishing harm on people. maybe on a really really bad day I might hulk out but the older I get the less let things bother me.

the last statement you quoted had to do with everybody in this modern culture going to extremes out of numbness. I really noticed it when the s&m book had all the women gossiping. seems like people are loosing their identities more and more each day. its all part of the plan i guess. Fun times.

well. i will try to salvage and get back on topic. what was this all about. Being gay is a choice or not? How about this...

being gay could or could not be a choice. as i said earlier stranger things have happened and i would not be surprised if a small percentage of gays are born this way. i do believe its largely a result of social conditioning for the majority of gays though. The push to force this in media and on children in schools only reinforces this In my view.

Gay sex is absolutely a choice. In fact all sex is a choice unless your a rape victim. I don't think there is a lot of gay rape outside of prisons. i have never heard of it anyways.

a reply to: mOjOm

like i said...its political. it has more to do with money, benefits, whatever than being gay. this is where the animosity is against gays now more than anything when I talk to people and this issue comes up. People looking to start lawsuits etc. etc. I know times are tough but everyone going around suing each other for stupid crap is not going to help your cause.

you cant make a majority like you by being a bullying minority twisting the system.

as for other countries...thats on them. Be glad you live in america where people that don't like you for whatever reason dont seek you out and kill you. Even the awful christians LOL. Honestly I am not religious but christians are pretty laid back if you respect their beliefs. This country would be pretty jacked up if there was no christianity IMO. Going after them aggressively is overkill I think. Have you ever looked into all the charity they do? Its pretty ridiculous.

when I say "you" its not really directed at YOU. Just the stance your taking.

I have to get off this thread for a little bit. its wearing me out. need to read up on bigfoot or something. i will check back tomorrow. Good talking to you gents. nobody even really got ugly.

a reply to: thesmokingman

I hope your closet is comfy.

a reply to: Onslaught2996

I don't normally get involved with these sorts of issues, much more important things out there but I agree with you. No body and no thing ever taught me to be straight and fancy girl. I have been this way since before I took any notice of it.

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Try your hardest to be sexually attracted to kids, see how well it works. It doesn't work anymore than trying to be gay when you are straight does.

Attraction to the opposite sex is natural...
Attraction to the same sex is natural...

"Attraction", or more aptly, the want to abuse children is not natural...


So really you cannot conflate these issues as if they are the same thing.

a reply to: TinkerHaus

They have done those studies for homosexuals.

Biology and sexual orientation

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I understand you point of view and also the others here including their pros and cons, when it comes to sexuality, that I put above the targeting of being gay or lesbian or just in between.

I always see sexuality as something to be enjoyed regardless of gender, but as my choice I prefer the opposite sex, been marry for 34 years to the same man.

Homosexuality has never been an issue to the success of humans on this planet - or we wouldn't have over population.

So the only gripe that's left is either:

1. Suppressed homosexual feelings. Being so disgusted with yourself that you somehow want to PROVE desperately that you can ignore your urges and that openly gay people are just not strong enough...like you.

2. Jealousy. You know, you believe that gay men have 'steamy, deviant sex' all the time [the lucky bastards]. [Which isn't always true, some live like old couples and don't do much 'steamy' either. Now Go back to point 1.

Why else would anyone even be bothered to have a discussion about it?
I have no interest in pottery, unless I want to make a pot or buy one.

a reply to: marg6043

I prefer men, too. Not just as sexual partners, but as companions. Women are often just WAY too hard to deal with.

originally posted by: agenda51
a reply to: Annee

I wish I was sometimes. actually I would like to live in the 50s forever. people actually could get a job and support a family on one income. schools were still good for kids. Politicians still gived a darn. aliens crashing all over the place. Glenn Ford, Steve Mcqueen, heck Errol Flynn was still around.

I am in my late 30s BTW.

I am white though. I guess If I was black the 80s might be better.

The 50s is a fantasy of selected memory. There was a lot wrong in the 50s.

The public schools were not better. They only worked for the middle of the road kid or teachers pet. Oh yeah, a lot of teachers pet back in them days.

IMO the education today in primary schools is far superior. I'm raising my 7 year old high functioning Autism Spectrum grandson. Every single child's needs are addressed in the new system.

Does the new system require more parent involvement? Definitely, as it should.

My daughters are older then you.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Ha, ha, that is why my husband calls me a witch all the time, I mean just one letter short of you know what, but hell I most be doing something good beside looking great because he will not let me go for anything in this world, b or witch

I most have put a spell on him.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Wow, didn't take long for paedophilia to be thrown into the thread, early and consistently...

You make me sick, & I think you're bad for ATS!!!

Read this before I went to bed last night... still slept like a baby.

When you say sick, do you mean like gross sick or clinically sick?

Also, you may not like reading comments such as mine, but they do encourage the participation that's vital to the success of this site. Without us you all would just get bored and turn on eachother. Threads that lack a voice of opposition or a bit of controversy usually don't go beyond one or two pages. So I'd say your opinion as to whether or not I'm good for ATS could use a little more thought.

Unnecessary!

a reply to: Bone75

No, you misunderstand me Bone, buddy...



I've never once disagreed with you previously, I do not respond often to your comments, maybe only once or twice I have...

But I've always enjoyed your input...




However, and not just you, but the proclomation that it is not a choice, almost put forward as unquestionable, pisses me off slightly...

I also thought it unnecessary to bring it into this thread...

As the two are not the same, let's say even if both are not a choice...
It's like saying race isn't a choice, and foot size isnt a choice...

One is still extremely different to the other, even if you and others are correct in your belief.



So that's my standpoint, however in my anger last night, it may not have been as easy to comprehend.




The reason I think it's bad for ATS, because I think it would be quite a shame for anyone in the Gay community to come by the thread, and avoid joining up because it didn't take long for paedophilia to be brought into it...

That's why I think it's bad, it may cause potential members not to join our ATS community.



I don't think different opinions are bad for ATS...

I just think it's a completely seperate debate, best saved for a different thread where those differences can be aired and shared.



Peace.

See this topic went no where...still people with ignorance replying.

Oh well.

Believe what you will, in the end you opinion will not matter. We are starting to Phase out archaic thinking and hopefully peoples freedom will soon not have to be questioned.

Hate when people bring the bible into this type of discussion..it's a book of fiction people..written by men to control mankind.


If there is a loving God..highly doubt he/she/it is an judgmental as you people. We are supposed to be his/her/it's children...so I think they would love us no matter what.

For you bible thumpers out there..do you treat your own children like the Book version of God.

Example..as a parent you see that 2 out of 3 children disappoint you....so you kill them all and start fresh...lol...if that doesn't make any sense to you as a parent...then think about how ridiculous it sounds to us, when you talk about a book of fiction which preaches that we are God's children but that he deemed some bad and flooded an entire planet to get rid of them along with the innocents..

a reply to: Onslaught2996

I usually just eat the kids I don't like. I saw a dog do it once and figured it must be nature's way of controlling the population.

a reply to: Onslaught2996

One is between two consenting people and one is the rape and manipulation of those who are too young to know better, trust the wrong person or too afraid to do anything about it due to threats or actual abuse besides sexual.

The difference between homosexuality and pedophilia is not in question, nor is the fact that we know how morally wrong it is to be a pedophile.

The question is, if homosexuality is not a choice-maybe pedophilia is not a choice (to the pedophile). Perhaps the pedophile cannot help the fact of who they are attracted any more than the homosexual, heterosexual, lesbian, etc.

It's a very logical question IMO, and makes very good common sense to entertain the idea.
Not the idea of whether it's right or wrong, but the idea of choice.

originally posted by: RobinB022
a reply to: Onslaught2996

One is between two consenting people and one is the rape and manipulation of those who are too young to know better, trust the wrong person or too afraid to do anything about it due to threats or actual abuse besides sexual.

The difference between homosexuality and pedophilia is not in question, nor is the fact that we know how morally wrong it is to be a pedophile.

The question is, if homosexuality is not a choice-maybe pedophilia is not a choice (to the pedophile). Perhaps the pedophile cannot help the fact of who they are attracted any more than the homosexual, heterosexual, lesbian, etc.

It's a very logical question IMO, and makes very good common sense to entertain the idea.
Not the idea of whether it's right or wrong, but the idea of choice.

I'm not going to research and look up links.

But, there was a researcher/group? That "suggested" pedophile was its own sexual orientation.

However, they were pressured to re-tract that line of thought.

Too bad, cuz they are probably right.

a reply to: Annee

No doubt it's socially unacceptable. There are many bright minds on ATS, and yet even here the idea was taken out of context and misunderstood as comparing or even condoning.