Question to those who say being gay is a choice?

a reply to: arpgme

I can understand that idea but it of course doesn't negate the mountains of personal testimony describing the contrary.

I won't discuss this further as it would be very insensitive to Bone75, but I will say it's absolutely in no way a solid case for sexual orientations being a choice.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

No he is saying that faced with threat he wouldn't have done it so therefore sexual orientations are not a choice.

But damn his and your stories make me want to cry.

a reply to: Bone75

Ok, but even if you did do it, making that choice wouldn't mean you chose to be gay.

Being able to choose sexual orientation would mean the ability to one day choose to Desire women sexually and not men, then the next choose to Desire Men and not Women.

It's not about your actions but the underlying feeling toward those actions.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Oh I understood that. I guess I worded what I meant poorly.

It was devastating to my family Fortunately they caught the 2 involved and they are in prison now after a fairly lengthy trial [to me anyways]. One of them left a shoe in a dumpster with dna evidence, and the other was caught on video at a nearby atm. It wasn't personal they just wanted to steal. Happened about 6 years ago. I appreciate the empathy, man.

I think anything can really happen under enough duress. It's just really hard to assess the merit of his argument knowing how chaotic and confusing that situation was. Anyways. He thinks it's evidence and that's fine.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Actually I'm saying it's not a choice. I would have bitten his pecker off rather than live through that, even if it meant sacrificing everyone in the room.

And I'm very sorry about your brother, I lost my little brother to violence as well.

Oh I see how I was misunderstanding things. Thanks for correcting me everyone. Sleeping meds are getting the best of my cognitive processes I guess!

Thanks Bone75. Really sorry you had to go through that. Wish crap like that never happened..

a reply to: Infinitis

No sisters. my mom is a tough woman though that would have beat the crap out of Sigourney Weaver and Linda Hamilton. Not a lot of Public Displays of Affection in our house. Everyone worked. I had lots of chores. Hated video games. No drinking or drugs either. they just were not drinkers. cigarettes and coffee were constant though. No religion. NO crying. no Divorces. A good bit of arguing and fighting but nobody ever stayed mad at each other for more than a few minutes. My fights with my brother were legendary.

my mother thinks modern women are worthless. She says they have no system of doing things LOL. She feels sorry for guys.

So I guess I would say it wasnt girly in our house. Men were men...the woman of the house was a real woman. She worked full time, did all the cooking, washing etc. I did most of the cleaning (started at 5).

honestly...i dont think i have ever seen my mother feel sorry for herself. not many like that around anymore. i think my wife gets intimidated by her LOL.

SO all this.....yes probably played and still plays a factor. Girly girls were probably a turn off to me and i was very goal oriented. As I got older and started having girlfriends I felt like they were from Mars. I didnt start wanting to hump my buddies though. I didnt have a lot of girlfriends. I think my wife was #5. I didnt sleep around much and when I did I made sure I was in the right hole. we called girls that slept around and did gross stuff sluts back then. Not sure what you call them now but there are a lot of them.

I think a lot of it for me personally was priorities. I had responsibilities...work, paper route etc. etc. There was no....i dont feel like doing it. You just did it. My mother said I never asked them for money after age five because i did chores for my allowance...then paper routes....comic book store....busboy....bartender etc. etc. i was happy though. never had to ask for anything and when you make your own money you have a lot of freedom. I honestly feel really sorry for kids now. they dont know what they are missing. They live their lives asking for money and living fun years through a sort of virtual reality. Very sad way to spend your childhood and teenage years. The next few generations of kids are going to be really screwed up.

In the end.... These days.... Kids dont grow up. The toys just get bigger.

a reply to: agenda51

I agree with a lot of what you just said but would like to point out one small detail.

Those girls who slept around doing "gross stuff" that you called sluts. They were doing all that stuff with guys. What label did you give them for doing all that "gross stuff" with those so called sluts???

a reply to: mOjOm

Hey buddy....its the wrong hole. its not natural. Just because there hole there doesnt mean you can just stick delicate and precious parts of your body in it that should be respected. its also extremely gross And i know what comes out of there. Its no more natural than eating Poo for fun.

as for my wife...She knows I was joking. She also knows I would never beat her up for some perverted thrill. Thats part of the reason she married me. If she was serious. i would have told her to get a shrink. i am not going to do that to the mother of my sons regardless of her frame of mind after reading some book that screws with your head and suddenly makes women curious about the joys of being tied up and whipped.

this is a culture thing. trust me. If you ever get married and have kids sleep is more important than sex. Your so mentally taxed all the time that you just want to sleep so you can be rested for the next day...the next battle. parenting is a lot of work. I know its not the Hip thing to do anymore but its worth it. to us anyways.

We dont swing either......Not natural LOL.

a reply to: agenda51

That wasn't what I was asking. My point is that you seem to have a double standard when it comes to men and women. Women are Sluts for having sex but the men they're having sex with are apparently totally normal. I wasn't talking about what hole is for what nor advising any hole over another. I'm curious if you think oral sex is also off limits.

As for your wife, you obviously know her better than me. All I meant was that if she has an interest of some kind of a intimate nature you should respect that and not joke about it. Doesn't mean you have to agree with it but as her husband it is your job to accept and communicate those kinds of ideas with her. You did choose her for better or worse, the strange and normal, etc.

BTW I am married, but no kids so I can identify somewhat of what you mean. Been together 15 years. The part about kids I am glad I don't have to mess with. I've experienced enough of that in limited amounts with my sisters kid and while it has it's plus sides, it sure as hell is exhausting and I'd rather not deal with it 24/7.

I don't swing either and it seems weird to me as well, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's unnatural. It's certainly not for me but everyone isn't like me so if it works for them who am I to say different.

a reply to: agenda51

I don't think what's natural, or sexually permissible to everyone, is determined by what you yourself enjoy in the bedroom

a reply to: agenda51

How is sleeping around or homosexuality not natural when it happens in nature? Natural means what happens in nature.

(Morality is not necessarily the same thing as natural)

a reply to: mOjOm

LOL...they were the guys that slept around with the sluts I guess. I think the girls called them dogs back then. Honestly I wasnt all into everyone else sex lives. I would ask around because I didnt want to get involved with a girl who had no self respect. My friends and I very rarely talked details about sex with girlfriends. It was kind of a private thing...this was mid 90s by the way.


This will really crack you up. Every girl I have ever slept with....I had them go get tested before we did anything. i think out of the five or maybe six girlfriends i had there was only one who didnt and we broke up.

I have a good friends I knew when they were kids who are no in their 20s guys and girls. The stuff they tell me about blows my mind. 2 of them have STDs now. One is a girl and it was her second boyfriend. Now she gets to carry it around with her forever. some of these kids dont know what they are messing with. I tried to warn them when they were young but I guess they were living in the moment.

originally posted by: agenda51
a reply to: mOjOm

LOL...they were the guys that slept around with the sluts I guess. I think the girls called them dogs back then. Honestly I wasnt all into everyone else sex lives. I would ask around because I didnt want to get involved with a girl who had no self respect. My friends and I very rarely talked details about sex with girlfriends. It was kind of a private thing...this was mid 90s by the way.

90s? Really?

You sound like you're from the 50s/60s.

originally posted by: agenda51

This will really crack you up. Every girl I have ever slept with....I had them go get tested before we did anything. i think out of the five or maybe six girlfriends i had there was only one who didnt and we broke up.

I have a good friends I knew when they were kids who are no in their 20s guys and girls. The stuff they tell me about blows my mind. 2 of them have STDs now. One is a girl and it was her second boyfriend. Now she gets to carry it around with her forever. some of these kids dont know what they are messing with. I tried to warn them when they were young but I guess they were living in the moment.

That doesn't seem strange at all to me. STD's aren't something to screw with. I imagine that made for some uncomfortable moments having to ask that though, that is funny. Although, I'm sure many women would actually find that to be responsible of you and as long as they didn't take it personally it might get you more respect in the long run.

I don't really support the idea of sleeping around a bunch either. I think you need to get some experience so you know what's up and stuff but at a certain point I think too many partners becomes a negative thing for most people. What that "too many" is I'm not going to even try and give a number too though. But I think everyone should feel comfortable with whatever they're into without having to feel that it's wrong or bad though. I've heard some guys pay money to have some chick step on their junk with high heels. I don't get it but if that works for them I say good for them for finding out what does it for them. I'm just glad I'm not that complicated.

Mid 90's would make us about the same age actually.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

in my houses world it is. people are free to do all kinds of nasty stuff. pee on each other, orgy, swing, anal etc. etc.

No its not normal. its perverted stuff and its gross. I think people want to act out porn fantasies or something.

but hey....if thats the new natural go for it. You can have it all and I promise I wont get jealous. I have known and worked with lots of gays through they years at resauraunts etc. I didn't beat them up for bragging about their weekends. gagged a few times and told them to stop talking about it at work though.

If your on a witch hunt though so be it. I will save you the trouble and have the decency to be honest with you. I obviously am not someone who respects the extreme gay culture. I dont respect swingers either. I dont advocate beating people up and persecuting them though. they should just keep it to themselves. In fact all of us should.

all this Pro gay stuff is just manufactured anyways. Its political. If gays would just be gay and stop forcing some message heterosexuals could care less. people just want to start crap all the time. They think they are winning but all its doing is making is worse. gays used to be nice, friendly, and gregarious. now they are rude, in your face, and belligerent. constantly attacking religions was a great idea too LOL. always starting arguments... protesting etc. etc. the manipulation of the courts doesn't sit well with people either.

ya see i am not really worried about gays. It how the culture has become so sexually charged and reckless that has me worried a bit. Its not even about some hippy love thing. Its become some sort of obsession for people trying to find some way to feel again after being numbed down and dumbed down by self isolation of the world around them.


LOL...I love gay threads though. always a good jibber jab.

a reply to: agenda51

The "Pro-Gay" stuff is based off of homosexuality being illegal and gays getting beat up in the first place. Keep it to yourself is like saying "shut up and stop asking to be treated as equals" and the religious are the ones harassing gays and trying to stop them from getting married.

By the way there is a difference between normal, natural, and moral but you seem to just use all three as if they mean the same thing.

a reply to: Annee

I wish I was sometimes. actually I would like to live in the 50s forever. people actually could get a job and support a family on one income. schools were still good for kids. Politicians still gived a darn. aliens crashing all over the place. Glenn Ford, Steve Mcqueen, heck Errol Flynn was still around.

I am in my late 30s BTW.

I am white though. I guess If I was black the 80s might be better.

you know whats funny though. I was not an oddball in the 90s. my friends and i were all pretty similar and there were not many screw ups at out school. Kids partied and drank but not in the extreme. Very, very little drug use. Everyone worked for the most parts in high school and even middle school. Blacks and whites were all friends at my school along with hispanics. There was 1 gay kid and he was fine until he went to far at a party. I wasnt there...didnt really party then. not a drinker.

Things have changed a lot in the last 15-20 years.

a reply to: agenda51

Well what's perverted and gross to you obviously isn't to everyone else. Everyone has their kinks and fetishes... or not. I don't see the issue. I don't understand why you think you should represent everyone else by determining what is 'normal' and 'natural' when it comes to what other adults want their sex lives to look like. Why not just embrace your own sexual interests, and not pass judgement on others for having their own? *shrug*

If your on a witch hunt though so be it. I will save you the trouble and have the decency to be honest with you.

I'm not on a witch hunt. I like honesty.

I obviously am not someone who respects the extreme gay culture

Not sure I know what extreme gay culture means, but anal you mentioned is something done by heterosexuals too. As is the BDSM community. All orientations enjoy these things.

I dont respect swingers either.

I don't respect cheating. If it's actually swinging and it's done within the parameters set and agreed upon by said couple than I respect that. Each couple should be able to determine the dynamics of their relationship.

If gays would just be gay and stop forcing some message

Whether you agree or not gay people can't really be themselves everywhere in the World. Your belief in that is not needed. It's a fact. Though this has been improving. Thankfully. Earlier I posted a link showing 70+ countries where it's straight up illegal to be gay.

gays used to be nice, friendly, and gregarious. now they are rude, in your face, and belligerent.

Ugh. I despise sweeping statements like that. For many reasons I despise them. I truly hope that was just extreme hyperbole.

Its become some sort of obsession for people trying to find some way to feel again after being numbed down and dumbed down by self isolation of the world around them.

Might be the most interesting thing you have said so far Though I fear it's quite off topic. As is most of this

a reply to: arpgme

yes i will agree to that. Normal, natural, and moral all pretty much go together for me in regards to sex.

keep it to yourself is for everybody not just gays. everybody just needs to shut up about their sex lives IMO. Do people not have other things to talk about anymore. All the crap going on in the world and this is the main topic of conversation with these people. Thats kind of perverted in itself.

For the marriage thing..the last thing they should have done was the route they took. its basically turned 99% of the hetro population anti gay. Not sure thats a win but if they want to think it is they can live in fantasy land all they want. I am sure it will keep the hate going for a long, long time and true acceptance of the gay lifestyle is about as popular as affirmative action right now LOL. But hey...you can get a piece of paper saying your married so whatever. After seeing what people go through with divorce i am not sure thats a win either though.

put it this way. If a whole lot of people hate gays in their hearts and minds its just that much longer before they are truly accepted in society which is or should be the primary goal if ever. I am still amazed they continue to attack and demonize christianity. so not only have they pissed off the christians they have also the muslim religion to contend with and they are not to friendly either.

In the whole movement has become a political tool. short term gain for long term loss. Oh well. Thats kind of the mentally and reason we are in all these messes right now. Instant gratification generation type stuff.