What If We Can't Travel Faster Than Light - Space Colonization Theory

I stumbled upon a pretty cool Youtube about the title of this post. The guy talks about how we might colonize the Galaxy and then the nearest stars giving a scale that goes out to about 1 Million years, and includes some nice graphics.

I thought it was problematic because it relies too much on everything working perfectly and the system of drones and frozen embryos has never been tested.

He says that in about 1,000-2,000 years we can colonize a significant portion of the MW Galaxy. He gives numbers and timescales, which makes it interesting.

Now, I'd like to reverse that. IF his idea is right, is that how a non-terrestrial would do it?

1. I would think that his idea would work better with 'bio-machines' not frozen embryos.
2. He talks with a singular purpose, a 'given', that the reason is to spread life. He does not talk about any military or aggressive or imperialistic approach (which is OK). I thought, 'what would be the point, the drive, to just spread 'homo-spaciens' to all habitable planets? It's kind of a vague idea'.

To me, there has to be strong purpose in spreading to other near planets in our Galaxy.
1. Trade Routes between planets;
2. Back up worlds to moderate the effect of an extinction event;
3. Speciation, leading to advances in many fields, then back-sharing;
4. Mapping the Galaxy to a kind of virtual WWW.

Anyway, that said, here's the link:



Comments welcome!

Interesting.

I would prefer to master cryogenics and time travel, that way if a journey takes 10,000 years simply go back in time 10,000 years set the auto pilot, freeze yourself and arrive at exactly the same time you left.

We can't travel faster than light. Light C is a constant and breaking that constant would change the physics of the universe we live in.

Even if we did/could travel at light speed time and distance would cease to exist, making travel calculations impossible.. it would also require something with near zero mass - such as photonic energy.

However, there is no reason why we cannot bend space time. If light speed C is constant, then distance and time are variable. By distorting space time we can reduce distance, but as to what costs still remains unclear.

Do not hold me to this, I am no physicist.

We know space time is plastic in that it bends with the force of gravity. Since this is a given it is not a huge jump to reason we might to bend space time for the purpose of hastening galactic travel as previously suggested. Also suggested was non-human meaning machine intelligence is better suited to the task of initial exploration and even perhaps some terra forming seeding for future colonization by humans as well.

a reply to: Maverick7

Time travel would be up there.

Interplanetary travel is natural to the course of an advanced species' evolution though, it's bound to happen on ever increasing scales - at least for the most part.


One thing I think we don't give enough credit to is terraforming. At some point we may be able to make suitable colonies on many of the celestial bodies in our solar system alone. We got quite the helping of it here.

If we can't travel faster then light it means there'll be time and communication gaps between those on Earth and those travelling the stars. Someone travelling to another star might experience a few years passing, but someone on Earth might age 30 years in that same time. This means by the time the people travelling to the stars get back home, the people they once knew will be much older than them, possibly dead. This effect is heightened dramatically the closer the star travellers are to the speed of light. This means if a sense of continuity is desired then the star travellers probably want to keep their dealings primarily amongst those on a consistent time scale to their own, namely, those they're travelling with. And secondly, communication will be equally limited, as it can't exceed C either. So if the star travellers are halfway across the galaxy then many thousand of Earth years will have already passed and thousands more will be required for them to send a message back to Earth, upon which time when it arrives the Earth people might not even exist because of wars or terrorism.

So if you're a young bold adventurer yearning to travel the stars then you may as well say goodbye to everyone on Earth, as though you'll never see them again. Because even if you do, they won't be remotely the same. And if they're the same then one has to worry what happens to a world when people don't change after decades or centuries or millennia of time.

originally posted by: 1Providence1
a reply to: Maverick7

Time travel would be up there.

Interplanetary travel is natural to the course of an advanced species' evolution though, it's bound to happen on ever increasing scales - at least for the most part.


One thing I think we don't give enough credit to is terraforming. At some point we may be able to make suitable colonies on many of the celestial bodies in our solar system alone. We got quite the helping of it here.

If you google "terraforming" you'll find the time-scale for it working daunting. It takes about 40,000 years to terraform a reasonably close analog to Earth just to permit simple plants to live. Now, on a geologic scale that's short. But on a human-expectation scale it's 1600 generations (a generation is about 25 years).
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Thanks to all for your comments. BUT please also watch the video, don't just focus on my comments. It's fascinating, if flawed.

originally posted by: Maverick7
To me, there has to be strong purpose in spreading to other near planets in our Galaxy.
1. Trade Routes between planets;

Trading of what exactly? If you can travel to another star there is nothing to trade you can get any resources from the planet/star system you travelled to and they aren't likely to be that unique that there would be trading of them. As for trading technologies, you'd simply send the build of a unique technology via radio or laser so the 3D printer / fabrication facility on the other end and they'd build it from local resources.

Space is not like some vast ocean and using the Earth model for colonization of the galaxy is problematic due to the distances involved. There wouldn't be

2. Back up worlds to moderate the effect of an extinction event;

Yes, this would be the #1 reason I think. I'd be shocked if in 1000 years we have not settled at least a few of the nearby habitable planets.

3. Speciation, leading to advances in many fields, then back-sharing;

Can you elaborate?

4. Mapping the Galaxy to a kind of virtual WWW.

What do you mean?

Anyway, that said, here's the link:

Comments welcome!

Cool video and it is feasible to do what he's saying. There's nothing preventing us from sending a probe to another star system right now. We have all of the technologies needed to reach the nearest stars at around 6-10 percent the speed of light which would only be a 50-80 year trip for our nearest planetary system, Alpha Centauri.

Check out the 100 Year Starship Organization as well.

a reply to: Maverick7

I have an interest in this, Multi generational huge space habitat's like mini worlds in there own right could carry a race across vast distance's but it would likewise take vast amount's of time, it is still at least theoretically possible to do so.
As for cryogenic suspension the problem is that as the metabolism is slowed the cell's are more prone to radiation damage as they are not self repairing and over time this damage would accumulate, however enough shielding and it may be possible but totally stopping the cell would kill it unless we find an alternate method to freezing it like a stasis field from some sci fi show in which mass and energy are slowed right down in a kind of bubble of controlled space but once again even on the periphery of this bubble slowed radiation and other sub atomic particles would build up and as soon as the stasis field was turned off they would shower all those years of radiation on the subject in an instant probably killing them.

I have an interest in quantum entanglement and remain convinced despite some rather intelligent opinion's who maintain that as far as they know it can not be done.

The problem is Gravity and something called the Gravity moment, if you can successfully decouple matter from it's gravitational mass even for only a fraction of a second then quantum entanglement of matter becomes at least hypothetically possible though not easy at all as we so far are only entangling information.

Take a photon and split it through a prism, both photon's that come from the original have half the energy of the original photon but remain mirror images of one another and no matter how far apart they get what happens to one also happens to the other.

So if you then using one of these photons twist information into it that information can be read from the other half or other quantum entangled photon, by taking the information out of the other it also disappears from the one you entangled the information in, the trick here is that it has not moved merely the two regions occupied by the photon have become somehow linked however some polarity may be altered in that the quantum mirror though one with the other half of itself is just that a mirror so left becomes right but if it can be done then at the speed of light you can send a photonic stream of split photon's between two location's where they can be used to entangle and disentangle information between these two point's, though the light may have taken the usual speed to get there once the network is up and running and as long as the almost impossible perfect calibration is maintained instant communication (well far-far faster than light there is a finite time delay though) could be established and if mass can be decoupled from it's quantum moment this may also facilitate a method to move the mass but then the quantum moment would re-establish from sub (gravity membrane) space or else it may mean that the mass would be pulled back to it's original point as the law of the universe would resist it, gravity moment decoupling is essential to facilitate it therefore.

So a builder vessel, maybe automated could set up these relay or split photon stream emitters between star systems one for each connection and these would then split two stream's of massive high energy photon's and send the split photon's to the two locations, receiving/transmission station's in each of these systems or near enough to be feasible but maintain exact distance and calibration from the relay station could then provide a real time connection and a star civilization not reliant on interstellar space craft except for the station's could then be born.

This is of course hypothetical and that is all as I too am no physicist, but then many physicists aren't really either, just organic number cruncher's who lack original thought.

a reply to: JadeStar

Thanks for coming on board.

1. Trade - it's not just about goods. Services, culture, variation, recreation.

2. Mapping the MW Galaxy, inputting the date into a galactic computer net, making the Galactic WWW, people put on Holo-glasses and immersion suits and travel at the speed of thought. Info-sharing also.

3. Discovery and advancement can occur when there's 'pressure'. Usually it's war. I'm thinking diversity, change and speciation (the biome flexes and adapts - we share those advances - using biology as a fast-track mechanism for discovery.

I don't think we have anything near 10% SOL travel tech. I'll check the link.

a reply to: JadeStar

Actually there are potential exotic materials nad even hard to create element's toward the galactic core and even using synthesis some of the element's may be beyond even the most advanced technology's, another trade commodity would be intelligence, gathering idea's and inventions from other sentient life who may think very different and therefore at all stages of there development have novel solutions your own species never came up with.

The logical modus would be to travel along the star highway's we see as the galactic arm's as they are rich in resources, planets and may harbour potential sentient life and habitable or convertible environment's suitable for exploitation, the other reason is population growth and colonization now there are some element's as we see in our world and maybe other's have them too like the small minded illuminate idiot's wanting to cull the population of earth at least according to the Georgia guide stone's and then to bury there idiot mind's in sand of ignorance thinking only on there own short term future and sacrificing the ultimate destiny of humanity on the alter of greed.

now not to go off thread that in mind That the Montauk mind control experiment, if that is not Neo Nazi crap illegally funded and ran by a group of fascist idiot's I don't know what is, a couple of thousand blond kid's all with blue eye's seem to have been singled out and had a common experience of going to the year 6000 in this vision which may have been technologically induced, there they visited a city that was in ruin's except for a single gold horse with a clock in it' stomach, now if you know about those experiment's and the certain misguided ultra right wing element who hijacked SOME sections of the CIA or NSA some time ago filtering black budget fund's to run there operation's then you know all kind's of wacky stuff about time travel, mind manipulation and even a forbidden planet style creature from the id as well as this mass vision (Check out Montauk golden horse on the net there is an ATS thread on it - search MONTAUK GOLDEN HORSE 6037 and MONTAUK MIND CONTROL to clarify what exactly these selected victims were experiencing), the gist of that was that apparently they were working on mind control technology so all these reports are therefore likely false and merely the result of induced consciousness states from the probably genuine mind control facility that once existed in the supposed destroyed subterranean facility there, there may have been a purge of the site but who knows and as for the golden horse well the ancient Germans worshipped a horse god (neo Nazi propaganda and actually pre thule though it survived as odin's horse in the later thule religion and as an aspect of odin) and of course as long as idiots like that are running the show the mass of humanity will never achieve there destiny and America is harbouring a terrible enemy of it's own free future in it's midst and the stars will forever remain a pipe dream for the mass of humanity as long as they are.

As you know NASA are actually putting credence in the idea of real warp ship's but will they simply be scrapped while some black budget takes that over as well, they are not star trek like but the concept look's pretty cool and is a way of working around the light speed limit without breaking the law's of physic's, there is a thread on ATS from a few months' back somewhere.

originally posted by: Maverick7
a reply to: JadeStar

Thanks for coming on board.

1. Trade - it's not just about goods. Services, culture, variation, recreation.

2. Mapping the MW Galaxy, inputting the date into a galactic computer net, making the Galactic WWW, people put on Holo-glasses and immersion suits and travel at the speed of thought. Info-sharing also.

3. Discovery and advancement can occur when there's 'pressure'. Usually it's war. I'm thinking diversity, change and speciation (the biome flexes and adapts - we share those advances - using biology as a fast-track mechanism for discovery.

Ok that makes sense.

I don't think we have anything near 10% SOL travel tech. I'll check the link.

We do. We just have never built it.

Google Project Daedalus and Project Longshot.

More recently there have been studies of laser propelled light-sails which could get up to 20% the speed of light.

Google "Robert Forward" and "Starwisp"

The technologies needed for interstellar probes have existed since the 1980s. The will and budget to create them is all that is between us doing it or not.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: JadeStar

Actually there are potential exotic materials nad even hard to create element's toward the galactic core and even using synthesis some of the element's may be beyond even the most advanced technology's

Really? Like what what?

another trade commodity would be intelligence, gathering idea's and inventions from other sentient life who may think very different and therefore at all stages of there development have novel solutions your own species never came up with.

Wouldn't that argue for using radio or lasers to beam that information at the speed of light rather than travelling at some small percentage of it?

a reply to: jonnywhite

Someone travelling to another star might experience a few years passing, but someone on Earth might age 30 years in that same time.

I'm not looking to challenge, but offer something a bit tangential in response to the above...

Whereas you're dealing with a slower flow of time in outer space versus that which an earthling would experience...

I do not think I can follow the idea that slower time would alter biological / chemical transactions within a living organism...

I'm thinking the best way I can explain it is musically. The bass player (which I am equating to a human space traveler's body) would continue at the same beat and tempo while the guitarist is free to speed things up (which I am equating to the aspect of time)...but both are operating off of the same beat....

Sorry if this doesn't make sense...it's the best way at the moment I can communicate my thoughts at the moment...

originally posted by: nullafides
a reply to: jonnywhite

Someone travelling to another star might experience a few years passing, but someone on Earth might age 30 years in that same time.

I'm not looking to challenge, but offer something a bit tangential in response to the above...

Whereas you're dealing with a slower flow of time in outer space versus that which an earthling would experience...

I do not think I can follow the idea that slower time would alter biological / chemical transactions within a living organism...

Time governs these chemical reactions and systems and time dilation is well established it's not an idea it's a law of nature. Without it your GPS wouldn't work.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: nullafides
a reply to: jonnywhite

Someone travelling to another star might experience a few years passing, but someone on Earth might age 30 years in that same time.

I'm not looking to challenge, but offer something a bit tangential in response to the above...

Whereas you're dealing with a slower flow of time in outer space versus that which an earthling would experience...

I do not think I can follow the idea that slower time would alter biological / chemical transactions within a living organism...

Time governs these chemical reactions and systems and time dilation is well established it's not an idea it's a law of nature. Without it your GPS wouldn't work.

Ok, interesting. I'm curious though. Can you expound on the statement "Time governs these chemical reactions and systems" ? What is it that you base this off of? I hope you realize I'm asking out of curiosity and not a means to say you're wrong and I'm right...

I guess what I'm thinking is this. You leave earth. Go a million light years from here. Time may slow, but I don't necessarily see that directly causing the heart to slow it's rate of pumping blood. Or for instance the decreased need of food, I'd still see the need for the rate of calorie intake/burning to be independent of the passage of time.....



Thanks for your response!

originally posted by: nullafides

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: nullafides
a reply to: jonnywhite

Someone travelling to another star might experience a few years passing, but someone on Earth might age 30 years in that same time.

I'm not looking to challenge, but offer something a bit tangential in response to the above...

Whereas you're dealing with a slower flow of time in outer space versus that which an earthling would experience...

I do not think I can follow the idea that slower time would alter biological / chemical transactions within a living organism...

Time governs these chemical reactions and systems and time dilation is well established it's not an idea it's a law of nature. Without it your GPS wouldn't work.

Ok, interesting. I'm curious though. Can you expound on the statement "Time governs these chemical reactions and systems" ? What is it that you base this off of? I hope you realize I'm asking out of curiosity and not a means to say you're wrong and I'm right...

Time and Space are linked. When talking in terms of relativistic effects like time dilation we talk about spacetime.

This stuff was debated long ago between Einstein and another guy whose name I can not remember. It turned out Einstein and relativity won and there's plenty of evidence supporting General and Special Relativity.

I guess what I'm thinking is this. You leave earth. Go a million light years from here. Time may slow, but I don't necessarily see that directly causing the heart to slow it's rate of pumping blood. Or for instance the decreased need of food, I'd still see the need for the rate of calorie intake/burning to be independent of the passage of time.....

Because you're seeing time and space as separate things, which they are not. Your heart is beating within the timespace reference frame it exists in. Your heart to you would beat no slower but to people out side the 20% speed of light reference frame on Earth it would seem to be beating slower.

This has been tested with super accurate atomic clocks on the ground, on a fast moving airplane and in space.

As you go faster the rate of time passing to an observer on the ground slows. You would seem to be aging normally but to everyone else on Earth your aging would seem slow in comparison.

Thanks for your response!

You're welcome. There are some pretty good books on basic relativity that explore some of these fun concepts. Let me know if you'd like a list of a couple.

a reply to: JadeStar

Well if someone could create a Mach Effect shield or some form of Quantum Hall Effect zero conductivity, or if Woodward is right. You might be able to travel superluminal without any problems. Minus mismanaging the frame dragged energy and going out in a blaze of photons.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: JadeStar

Well if someone could create a Mach Effect shield or some form of Quantum Hall Effect zero conductivity, or if Woodward is right. You might be able to travel superluminal without any problems. Minus mismanaging the frame dragged energy and going out in a blaze of photons.

Just remember that any trip out to a destination at > SOL you still have to stop when you get there. That might mean a long period of acceleration and deceleration. It would make SOL journeys to places in local space such as to parts of the Solar System would have to be done with normal propulsion methods.

In addition a journey out to a location and then back to Earth still means you have to turn around. I'm not sure about flight path or something, but it seems logical that 'turning' or 'turning around' would not be feasible at >SOL speeds.

Because of the time needed to slow to stop or slow to turn around, it might be that for all practical purposes, -traveling- at such high speeds would not be economical or practical or really save a large amount of time (except for very long journeys, such as to another star in the MW galaxy.

All conjecture, because no experience is available. It might be that we can send information at >/= SOL but not physical matter. Obviously, various tricks and quantum methods would be a different subject.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: nullafides

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: nullafides
a reply to: jonnywhite

Someone travelling to another star might experience a few years passing, but someone on Earth might age 30 years in that same time.

Time and Space are linked. When talking in terms of relativistic effects like time dilation we talk about spacetime.

This stuff was debated long ago between Einstein and another guy whose name I can not remember. It turned out Einstein and relativity won and there's plenty of evidence supporting General and Special Relativity.

I guess what I'm thinking is this. You leave earth. Go a million light years from here. Time may slow, but I don't necessarily see that directly causing the heart to slow it's rate of pumping blood. Or for instance the decreased need of food, I'd still see the need for the rate of calorie intake/burning to be independent of the passage of time.....

Because you're seeing time and space as separate things, which they are not. Your heart is beating within the timespace reference frame it exists in. Your heart to you would beat no slower but to people out side the 20% speed of light reference frame on Earth it would seem to be beating slower.

This has been tested with super accurate atomic clocks on the ground, on a fast moving airplane and in space.

As you go faster the rate of time passing to an observer on the ground slows. You would seem to be aging normally but to everyone else on Earth your aging would seem slow in comparison.

Thanks for your response!

You're welcome. There are some pretty good books on basic relativity that explore some of these fun concepts. Let me know if you'd like a list of a couple.

Hopefully the sedatives your drinking in your bedtime tea at the moment have stopped you from vomitting so much

Now, whereas I am a layman, I am not inherently stupid or uninformed either. Sure, the clock experiment. But, I'm just saying I'd be willing to put money on the idea that at best there is a sense of fuzzy logic dictating the interactivity of time and biological processes.

Additionally, I am familiar with Einstein and his research.

However, there haven't been many great advancements in understanding the scenario at hand. And honestly, I'd wager that Einstein himself would have said that his theories were not bullet proof and would be certain to morph overtime in order to accommodate a greater understanding of the situation as a whole.


Now, as an aside, a very very good friend of mine is a BIoChemist. Let's just call him MR. Anthrax, and that he likes to drink mead from time to time in a huge fort

I'm going to be talking to him this weekend, and ask if he is aware of the particulars regarding this. If In am wrong, I'll be the first one admitting it. Although knowing my buddy, he's probably going to attempt the two step to get around the question, given security clearances and such.

I'm not looking to challenge, but offer something a bit tangential in response to the above...

Whereas you're dealing with a slower flow of time in outer space versus that which an earthling would experience...

I do not think I can follow the idea that slower time would alter biological / chemical transactions within a living organism...

Time governs these chemical reactions and systems and time dilation is well established it's not an idea it's a law of nature. Without it your GPS wouldn't work.

Ok, interesting. I'm curious though. Can you expound on the statement "Time governs these chemical reactions and systems" ? What is it that you base this off of? I hope you realize I'm asking out of curiosity and not a means to say you're wrong and I'm right...