Even at $10 a barrel, oil can't match solar on cost

From reneweconomy.com.au...:

One of the biggest banks in the Middle East and the oil-rich Gulf countries says that fossil fuels can no longer compete with solar technologies on price, and says the vast bulk of the $US48 trillion needed to meet global power demand over the next two decades will come from renewables.

The report from the National Bank of Abu Dhabi says that while oil and gas has underpinned almost all energy investments until now, future investment will be almost entirely in renewable energy sources.

The report is important because the Gulf region, the Middle East and north Africa will need to add another 170GW of electricity in the next decade, and the major financiers recognise that the cheapest and most effective way to go is through solar and wind. It also highlights how even the biggest financial institutions in the Gulf are thinking about how to deploy their capital in the future.

“Cost is no longer a reason not to proceed with renewables,” the 80-page NBAD report says. It says the most recent solar tender showed that even at $10/barrel for oil, and $5/mmbtu for gas, solar is still a cheaper option.

This article is very telling. It seems like the days of an Oil controlled economy are numbered. Solar and other renewable energy continues to drop in price. This is great news for future generations of Earth citizens.

originally posted by: jrod
From reneweconomy.com.au...:

One of the biggest banks in the Middle East and the oil-rich Gulf countries says that fossil fuels can no longer compete with solar technologies on price, and says the vast bulk of the $US48 trillion needed to meet global power demand over the next two decades will come from renewables.

The report from the National Bank of Abu Dhabi says that while oil and gas has underpinned almost all energy investments until now, future investment will be almost entirely in renewable energy sources.

The report is important because the Gulf region, the Middle East and north Africa will need to add another 170GW of electricity in the next decade, and the major financiers recognise that the cheapest and most effective way to go is through solar and wind. It also highlights how even the biggest financial institutions in the Gulf are thinking about how to deploy their capital in the future.

“Cost is no longer a reason not to proceed with renewables,” the 80-page NBAD report says. It says the most recent solar tender showed that even at $10/barrel for oil, and $5/mmbtu for gas, solar is still a cheaper option.

This article is very telling. It seems like the days of an Oil controlled economy are numbered. Solar and other renewable energy continues to drop in price. This is great news for future generations of Earth citizens.

It is all about cost... As alternate energy become cheaper it will take over. We might be reaching that breaking point.

As long as the cost of renewable energy is less than the price of fossil fuels I am happy to use them. The only caveat I have is that the cost of fossil fuel isn't manipulated by the Government to make that a reality.

a reply to: Metallicus

Given the tax rebates and kickbacks big oil gets thanks to their lobby interest, it is not unreasonable to speculate that fossil fuel prices are fixed low as a result of government subsidization aka corporate welfare.

It does appear that the time for renewable energy to overtake big oil is now!

Last I checked solar power efficiency was on the high end around 3.5 percent.
I have read articles stating solar tech will be viable around 10% efficiency.

From my own experience, for energy production a conventional Diesel generator will out perform and out class a solar system of larger size. And all solar generators have a back up of Diesel.

In perfect conditions solar at this point may be able to over take oil products, and I hope it can.
For reliable power, as is needed in every industry, unless we have a number of chargeable cells, and infinite time, wind and solar is not come close to taking over the general power grid.

Nuclear power is a proven method to do so, but people fear this, with good reason.

This will start wars.

Lots of 'em

Not out of the crude oil ball park yet.

Still waiting on Bio-tech companies to eliminate the need for crude Oil completely.

Bio-fuels are particly to blame for the drop in Oil prices as well. Which will fuel the tougher engins that cannot support soely on Electric power right now.

Ethanol may be a bio-fuel. But it is not the bio-fuel of the future

Solar would help take pressure off the Grid for sure.

originally posted by: AnuTyr
Not out of the crude oil ball park yet.

Still waiting on Bio-tech companies to eliminate the need for crude Oil completely.

Bio-fuels are particly to blame for the drop in Oil prices as well. Which will fuel the tougher engins that cannot support soely on Electric power right now.

Ethanol may be a bio-fuel. But it is not the bio-fuel of the future

Solar would help take pressure off the Grid for sure.

Do you actually understand what you are saying here? You can have any engine work on any fuel source. Or find a more efficient engine within any fuel source.

I will point out solar and wind have been supplementing fossil fuel through all of my 34 years on this planet. If they had the efficiency of coal even at this point we would not still be using coal.

I'm all for alternative energy, but the science is not yet there.

Solar, wind, bio fuels, and hydrogen are the future for land owners who want to be independent. Most people like the grid still. So Heluim3 is the future there. a reply to: randomtangentsrme

a reply to: jrod

But, solar companies need petroleum as an ingredient for their products.

Regardless, hopefully that lower cost doesn't include government subsidies, which should cease on all levels for energy companies and products.

The nice things about wind and solar is that they can be localized to exist on one's property, removing the need for a large grid system like the one that exists today. That would be nice.

a reply to: roth1

Helium is a depleting source. Soon it'll be strictly for manufacturing only and even at that acetylene is still king.

Solar is fine and dandy, but it takes a lot of petroleum products to make. The trade loft over time is nice, but right now, very expensive.
And as of right now, nothing gives more bang for our buck than gasoline. On and ounce of gas you can move an entire fill sized minivan full of a family and luggage, what else can do that and is easy to obtain?

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: jrod

But, solar companies need petroleum as an ingredient for their products.

Regardless, hopefully that lower cost doesn't include government subsidies, which should cease on all levels for energy companies and products.

The nice things about wind and solar is that they can be localized to exist on one's property, removing the need for a large grid system like the one that exists today. That would be nice.

Exactly. But almost no oil needed actually. All products needed can come from Hemp or other natural sources. Decades ago Ford made a hemp car. You could not hurt the fender with a sledge hammer. Can be made into oils / lubricants, fuel, clothing as well. There is no need for fossil fuels. We can live without them all. Plants make the air better not worse. If you think about it almost all oil comes from plant based materials.

a reply to: roth1

Thank you for clarifying this.

It does seem like any thread about solar and other alternatives are flooded with posters who either believe that petroleum is necessary for alternative to work, or want to give the reader the perception that petroleum is necessary for a modern society.

I believe ending our dependance to petroleum is necessary for a more advanced human civilization to emerge. Mining and burning fossil fuels is a primitive way of making electricity.

originally posted by: roth1
Exactly. But almost no oil needed actually. All products needed can come from Hemp or other natural sources. Decades ago Ford made a hemp car. You could not hurt the fender with a sledge hammer. Can be made into oils / lubricants, fuel, clothing as well. There is no need for fossil fuels. We can live without them all. Plants make the air better not worse. If you think about it almost all oil comes from plant based materials.

I agree completely--I live in KY, where my congressman (Thomas Massie) has been fighting pretty hard to get hemp cultivation legal here again. I absolutely agree that with our technology, we could move away from fossil fuels, but the reality is that we're not quite there, yet. We're getting closer all the time, but just not there, hence my comment.

I used to live about 1 mile away from the Hemlock SemiConductor Plant in Clarksville, TN, and I'll tell ya, the chemicals and processes employed in the making of solar panels is not a whole lot better for the environment than fossil fuel consumption. I'd bet money that the net environmental impact is similar between the two.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: roth1
Thank you for clarifying this.

It does seem like any thread about solar and other alternatives are flooded with posters who either believe that petroleum is necessary for alternative to work, or want to give the reader the perception that petroleum is necessary for a modern society.

I believe ending our dependance to petroleum is necessary for a more advanced human civilization to emerge. Mining and burning fossil fuels is a primitive way of making electricity.

Fossil fuels in general are a big part of the production of solar and wind energy. What type of power do you think runs these plants that create these products? You'd like to assume that it'd be renewable energy, but for the vast majority, it is not. The Hemlock SemiConductor plant I lived near in TN ran off of power produced mostly by burning coal. And I worked for the marketing firm that did their branding of the building down there (I've since moved), and I spoke with many of their executives, and there absolutely are petroleum-based items in their products. Not to mention the nasty, NASTY chemicals that are used during production and stored in massive storage tanks on site (that, if you believe the concerns about the Keystone Pipeline leaking and causing environmental damage, these could do the same if we're being completely honest).

My comment wasn't meant to imply that even production of these things will keep the fossil-fuel (or petroleum) industry going on their own, I'm just making a point that right now, we're not at the point where even production of items necessary for renewable energy is completely unreliant on Big Oil.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

We have been there for some time but technologies have been repressed and hidden. There are numerous threads on ATS about this.

I am suprised no one said anything about how my headline is a little misleading. The $10/barrel number came from the middle east and Africa. Here in the states the number is still around $50/barrel.

Even without the remarkable price achieved at the Dubai auction by ACWA Power, the report notes that wind and solar are cheaper options in the Middle East at any oil price above $US-20 to $US30 a barrel.

Even against existing oil-fired generation that have been more than half depreciated, new solar is a cheaper option at any price above $US45/barrel. Fully depreciated oil generators can no longer compete against new solar at prices above $US60/barrel.

The report also notes that energy efficiency is becoming an increasingly obvious investment, with five-year returns in many investments.

There is a reason why Warren Buffet has been dumping his oil stock.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: roth1
Thank you for clarifying this.

It does seem like any thread about solar and other alternatives are flooded with posters who either believe that petroleum is necessary for alternative to work, or want to give the reader the perception that petroleum is necessary for a modern society.

I believe ending our dependance to petroleum is necessary for a more advanced human civilization to emerge. Mining and burning fossil fuels is a primitive way of making electricity.

Yes but the additive effect is bad. And I agree we need to move away from it as much as we can. Not only pollution, but greedy wars over the resources.
Fossil fuels in general are a big part of the production of solar and wind energy. What type of power do you think runs these plants that create these products? You'd like to assume that it'd be renewable energy, but for the vast majority, it is not. The Hemlock SemiConductor plant I lived near in TN ran off of power produced mostly by burning coal. And I worked for the marketing firm that did their branding of the building down there (I've since moved), and I spoke with many of their executives, and there absolutely are petroleum-based items in their products. Not to mention the nasty, NASTY chemicals that are used during production and stored in massive storage tanks on site (that, if you believe the concerns about the Keystone Pipeline leaking and causing environmental damage, these could do the same if we're being completely honest).

My comment wasn't meant to imply that even production of these things will keep the fossil-fuel (or petroleum) industry going on their own, I'm just making a point that right now, we're not at the point where even production of items necessary for renewable energy is completely unreliant on Big Oil.

a reply to: roth1

Seriously?

Oil is pretty cheap now, less than 60 bucks a barrel. Gas prices in Canada should be around 70 cents a litre but companies and the government were complaining that the lower prices will affect their bottom line so they artificially raised prices to 113 per litre.

So in reality you will always be paying the same amount to travel no matter what energy source you have.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: SlapMonkey

We have been there for some time but technologies have been repressed and hidden. There are numerous threads on ATS about this.

I am suprised no one said anything about how my headline is a little misleading. The $10/barrel number came from the middle east and Africa. Here in the states the number is still around $50/barrel.

Even without the remarkable price achieved at the Dubai auction by ACWA Power, the report notes that wind and solar are cheaper options in the Middle East at any oil price above $US-20 to $US30 a barrel.

Even against existing oil-fired generation that have been more than half depreciated, new solar is a cheaper option at any price above $US45/barrel. Fully depreciated oil generators can no longer compete against new solar at prices above $US60/barrel.

The report also notes that energy efficiency is becoming an increasingly obvious investment, with five-year returns in many investments.

There is a reason why Warren Buffet has been dumping his oil stock.

The day the world switches to solar power is the day that clouds will persistently cover competing counties and cities.