An Israeli Insult

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Zionism is the creation of an Israelie state.

So people wanting their own country is now a bad thing?

I personally never understood the hatred of Zionism.

Zi·on·ism
/ˈzīəˌnizəm/
noun

noun: Zionism

a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann.

Well there are two sides to every story...


Part one of the other side is "why did it take thousands of years for this movement to come about?"...

Part two of the other side is "why did they ethnically cleanse and displace hundreds of thousands of people to create such a State?"

Part three of the other side is "why do they have an open air prison and illegal settlements beyond the borders of this so called State?"

Part four is my personal favourite...
"Why do such a large number of Atheists believe they have a right to a home State that was 'God given'..."



& there are many other parts to the other side that you may be interested in once you realise there is no legitimate/moral/legal right to any of the above.



Zionism...
Is not what it has been defined as...
That movement was hijacked nearly 100 years ago.


Zionism of today... Is a completely different thing all together...

Much like "Jihad" is no longer defined by its original Arabic meaning...
Instead it is a media/government buzzword for terrorism...

Zionism is the same thing.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

OK. I will accept that. Actually, I'm a bit relieved. LOL.

Things over here are a little weirder. Again, which medium one watches stresses/ignores the others position almost invariably.

I won't get into it. Suffice to say I've never seen such a split as exists here. Almost 50-50 amongst those that care with the remainder not caring one whit.

a reply to: beezzer

I just have issues with countries with nukes telling others they can't have them.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Zionism is the creation of an Israelie state.

So people wanting their own country is now a bad thing?

I personally never understood the hatred of Zionism.

Zi·on·ism
/ˈzīəˌnizəm/
noun

noun: Zionism

a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann.

Well there are two sides to every story...


Part one of the other side is "why did it take thousands of years for this movement to come about?"...

So it's a time factor.

Part two of the other side is "why did they ethnically cleanse and displace hundreds of thousands of people to create such a State?"

America did that also. So you must hate America.

Part three of the other side is "why do they have an open air prison and illegal settlements beyond the borders of this so called State?"

So America did this also. . .

As did numerous other countries.

Part four is my personal favourite...
"Why do such a large number of Atheists believe they have a right to a home State that was 'God given'..."

So it's a religious thing?

& there are many other parts to the other side that you may be interested in once you realise there is no legitimate/moral/legal right to any of the above.

I could say the same about practically every nation on the planet.

Zionism...
Is not what it has been defined as...
That movement was hijacked nearly 100 years ago.

By whom?

Zionism of today... Is a completely different thing all together...

Much like "Jihad" is no longer defined by its original Arabic meaning...
Instead it is a media/government buzzword for terrorism...

Zionism is the same thing.

So you are equating ISIS to Israel?

Interesting.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: beezzer

I just have issues with countries with nukes telling others they can't have them.

Perhaps there might be nation-states that shouldn't have them.

Or should everyone have a nuke?

a reply to: DOADOA

We can definitely look back 5 years and see that Netanyahu has been spewing this story for a long time, during the 2012 elections or right before it, he had people like my dad believing Iran would be nuking us in 3 weeks.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Well to be fair, in your nations defence... the U.S. is huge compared to us...
So I'd expect more noise when trouble arises on your side.


Added to the chasm in size and population density, is the fact that you have about a thousand (hyperbole) more media outlets giving you (and us who care about your country) the run around...


Murdoch plays a big part in that I think.

He's not so influential over here, oh he is influential, & probably could be more so...
But the States is his breeding ground.



I suppose what stands out the most is the partisan divide in the U.S. compared to the U.K...
It's a much more prominent factor where you are it seems.

Hopefully that picks up for you all soon.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Ah, so breaking that agreement means they are illegal? Does that apply to Pakistan? China? India?

Iran, if and when they develop them? One more question, did Israel sign that agreement?

Did you know a nuclear weapon is being developed in the U.S. which will be deliverable via fighter again? The F-35 will be the delivery platform.

All the nuclear free nations that are NATO members-who purchase the F-35, cough, cough,- can convert from nuclear free to a nuclear power virtually over night? The reason I mention it is it seems to me that NPT is out the window, for all intents and purposes.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Murdoch has a beef with the UK always has but we are wise to his tricks.
He should have been jailed tbh.

a reply to: beezzer

Oh time definitely plays an important part in this story.



What those who left Europe did is not even in the same bracket as this... False equivalency...
Topic for another thread.
Suffice to say I don't like what happened, but the reasons why are irrelevent to this subject.



Yes, the "God given" homeland to the Jews was nothing but a Religious thing...
Since its original inception in B.C it was wholey based on "God given"...
How can "the return" be anything but Religious?



Yes, you could, but we are discussing Israel & Zionism, not the US & Pilgrims, or the UK & Vikings...



By whom you ask?
You could get an answer to that from me, or you could research it from Jews Against Zionism...
By them, in fact.




The hijacking of the word "Jihad" came long before you were having nightmares about ISIS...
& I dare say that hijacking will continue when ISIS are fertiliser...


So no, I'm not saying ISIS & Israel are the same...
Israel have nearly 60 years worth of prior, before ISIS can catch up on the atrocity chart!

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: boymonkey74

So are these reports false? Exaggerated? Is all hunky dory in Britain? Is there no Islamic problem in Britain?

Not as much as you would like to think...but of course, there are, " " (fill in the blanks) everywhere.
Mr Tanfastic inviting a head of a ruling sect of unknown origin to speak on a political platform at the heart of a sovereign country, without some consultation with the leader of that sovereign country, gets an "A" grade in Asssholeism, but then, the guy he invited is in the same club...something of a confraternity then.

As a footnote, it'a a pity Ron Paul has gone, he might have enjoyed the post speech Q&A session.......there is going to be one isn't there?

Let's be honest Ariel Sharon was crying about Iranian Nukes long before Netanyahu ever reached Office...

He just picked up the slack of the old warmonger, and then escalated the rhetoric a little once he bit the dust.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

On your last one, your favorite,-I will try to find it on facebook- there was an interview with ultra-orthodox Jews who stated that Judaism refutes Zionism due to-I paraphrase-god forbade them their own homeland...

Further, these guys, when consulted in 1947 opposed the formation of Israel!!

Go figure...

a reply to: nwtrucker

Yes the Jews Against Zionism movement is quite large.

& widely dispersed over the Globe.



I think it has something to do with the parameters set for a legitimate homeland in Israel...

Something to do with their Messiah, if I remember correctly, although my Judaic history isn't 100%...



It is a strange one.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Yep, he is a horrid person imo.


However his recent spat with Tony Blair has the potential to put him into my favour.

originally posted by: DOADOA
When it comes to nuclear anything the interest of the world should be considered. We may look back 5 years from now and wish we had listened to Netenyahu. Just to be fair.

No we will not. We cannot stop another country from nuclear energy. Who has Iran threatened, unprovoked, in the last five decades? And please don't say the infamous "wipe Israel off map" because that has been proven countless times to be incorrect.

He wants us to fight his wars, period.

But i did love this.

AAC.

a reply to: nwtrucker

I'm not too sure it probably would relate to those as well, probably North Korea too.


Israel not signing the agreement is what makes their nukes illegal on the international stage...
However illegal nukes is a bit of a conundrum as one of your previous post points towards...
It is a bit of a "LOL" thing.



As for the rest, I'm not too sure about all that...

I'm sure the recent negotiations are to keep Iran in line with an NPT agreement.

I could be wrong though.

Israeli official sees U.S. Congress as 'last brake' to stop Iran deal



www.reuters.com...

a reply to: Foderalover

They've been after Iran for a very long time. Notice how he starts with IRAN then switches to IRAQ got what he wanted in IRAQ and is now back to IRAN.



Netanyahu 1992: Iran will Have the Bomb by 1997

Dec 2009: Giraldi: US Intel Found Iran Nuke Document Was Forged

Jun 2011: “No Shred of Evidence”, Iran Building Nukes, Ex Head of IAEA Says

Jan 2012: Panetta: Iran a year away from nuke

May 2014: Former Israeli Nuke Chief: Iran Is 10 Years Away from Having the Bomb (and may not even want to build one)

Netanyahu in 1992: Iran close to having nuclear bomb

Mar 2012 US, Europe, Israel Agree On Solid Intel: Iran Nuke Threat Far Off


and on another subject, lets not forget this: Halliburton Charged with Selling Nuclear Technologies to Iran

originally posted by: nwtrucker you in the U.K. prefer Sharia law over your traditional 'Zionist' leaders. We will see how that works for you....

you're not from the UK, so your opinion isn't required. it's also factually incorrect.