Governor Taxed Rich Increased the Minimum Wage -- State's Economy Is One of the Best

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I would agree with you, but I have one major problem with that way of thinking. At what point does how much a person gets exceed their worth? Earning money is one thing, but there comes a point in my opinion where a person is gaining more than any person should for the work they do.

What the one percent has in wealth I firmly believe not a single human being is deserving of, no matter what their job or position in society. The gap is too great, and it's far, far, far too much in excess. Too me that's where the argument falls apart.

I firmly believe in people getting paid what they're worth. I firmly believe some jobs and positions in society require a higher standard of living as an incentive to put in the work necessary to excel. I, however, do not agree that such an excessive gap is necessary. We've gone far past worth and into excess with a gap in wealth so great there really is no good reasonable excuse for it's existence.

I mean seriously, is there no limit in your mind to what another person is worth to society? How high a pedestal do you believe a person should be allowed to stand before the pedestal has gotten too high? When is it too much? What is your limit?

a reply to: OneManArmy

The only people who support taxing the rich are those that know that they will never be rich because they are lazy losers (commie democrats).

a reply to: AlaskanDad

I think everyone who votes ought to have skin in the game. Too many at the top and bottom don't.

a reply to: Puppylove

I don't know. What is a Jobs or a Ford or a Oppenheimer or a Mozart or a Da Vinci worth to society and humanity?

And since the economy is essentially a series of contracts between individuals who are you to step in a tell someone that what they are about to willingly purchase isn't worth the price they were about to pay for it?

a reply to: ketsuko

Since most contracts in the economy are forced by need rather than want, as a consumer who relies on these contracts coerced from basic survival needs I think I have every right to have an issues with the state of the economy.

You talk about things like Da Vinci, I'm talking about basic needs being not affordable because of this wealth gap.

Also I don't believe in capitalism or cash for that matter. Nor am I a socialist. I think we have a terrible economic system, and gave up on finding anything better long ago.

originally posted by: chuckk
a reply to: OneManArmy

The only people who support taxing the rich are those that know that they will never be rich because they are lazy losers (commie democrats).

Lazy losers?
Ive worked very hard most of my life.
As have most of us.
But some of us never have anything left to show for it, because the greedy assholes at the top keep creaming off too much for themselves.
And then have the audacity to blame the sick, the poor, and those in need of help for the worlds problems.
Disgusting. It has nothing to do with left right politics.
It has everything to do with humanity and greed corrupted monsters.

People like buffett and gates support raising income taxes because they get their earnings from capital gains not income.

Raise capital gains taxes, lower income taxes, and tax every forex/Wall Street transaction 1%.

That is the solution.

He's also agreed to raise Minnesota's minimum wage to $9.50 an hour by 2018

The title is misleading ; As this minimum wage increase has not yet been put into effect, how can one honestly consider it as a factor in the State's economy ?

Just pointing this out.

originally posted by: shanegm
People like buffett and gates support raising income taxes because they get their earnings from capital gains not income.

Raise capital gains taxes, lower income taxes, and tax every forex/Wall Street transaction 1%.

That is the solution.

The problem with large increases in capital gains taxes, is it hurts low income and middle class family way, way more than it effects people like Buffet.

Looks like upper middle class got hosed again, and the rich will skate free once more.

a reply to: CrawlingChaos

How exactly does it hurt low and middle income individuals more than the people that control over 90% of the stock market?

The same stock market which has been the recipient of trillions of dollars of via QE, which the low and middle income individuals will be liable for...

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
There is always someone here at ATS to tell me the dangers of raising taxes on the wealthy. Here is what happened when one state not only raised the taxes on the wealthy, but upped minimum wage too!

When he took office in January of 2011, Minnesota governor Mark Dayton inherited a $6.2 billion budget deficit and a 7 percent unemployment rate from his predecessor, Tim Pawlenty,

During his first four years in office, Gov. Dayton raised the state income tax from 7.85 to 9.85 percent on individuals earning over $150,000, and on couples earning over $250,000 when filing jointly -- a tax increase of $2.1 billion. He's also agreed to raise Minnesota's minimum wage to $9.50 an hour by 2018, and passed a state law guaranteeing equal pay for women.

Job market:

Between 2003 and late 2010, when Pawlenty was at the head of Minnesota's state government, he managed to add only 6,200 more jobs.

Between 2011 and 2015, Gov. Dayton added 172,000 new jobs to Minnesota's economy -- that's 165,800 more jobs in Dayton's first term than Pawlenty added in both of his terms combined.

source

How did those tax cuts work out for Wisconsin?

Only about 50% of the 10 States with the highest income tax are in the top half of States as far as unemployment. The same can be said for 50% of the 10 States with the lowest income tax.

You will find roughly the same if you look at min wage for each state.

originally posted by: shanegm
a reply to: CrawlingChaos

How exactly does it hurt low and middle income individuals more than the people that control over 90% of the stock market?

The same stock market which has been the recipient of trillions of dollars of via QE, which the low and middle income individuals will be liable for...

Well i'll use myself as an example; Seeing as I'm one of the people I spoke of. The result of increasing this taxation has more effect on my pocket book, than say Buffet's pocket book. While perhaps, Buffet can shrug off increasingly larger chunks of his capital gains, I cannot.

The same stock market which has been the recipient of trillions of dollars of via QE, which the low and middle income individuals will be liable for...

Don't get me started on that nonsense... Many people like to bash on "trickle down" economics, but oddly stay silent when obvious "trickle UP" economics are being used today. QE, bank bailouts etc. under this administration are just as repugnant as the TARP bail out of the last administration.

If I were one of the 'wealthy' making $150k I would be on the first plane out of the state. What are the statistics on wealthy people fleeing Minnesota? I know California is losing 'wealthy' people at an alarming rate. Also, why would I maintain a business in Minnesota when I could move and pay my employees a lower wage?

It is only going to be 'better' in Minnesota in the short term. In the long term you will have 'wealthy' people and businesses fleeing the state. THAT is how economics works.

a reply to: AlaskanDad

By raising the minimum wage, two things happen: number one, people suddenly have more money to spend and go shop more. Number two: people have the ability to get off welfare and therefore there is less pressure on the state and national coffers.

a reply to: Metallicus

Yeah. It would be terrible to have a state full of people who actually work.

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul

originally posted by: redhorse
a reply to: AlaskanDad

Well maybe. 160k a year is middleclass though.

It is also the 1%!

No. It's not.

The 1% income earners make in excess of 350k per individual (not per household) annually. In the United States at any rate.

Indeed - that is in the United States - but there is a lot more to the world than the US, and the US is actually a rich country - even the poor in the US are better off than half of the world's population!!

Worldwide tworldwidelevel to be in the top 1% of earners is US$50k, or US$500k assets (net) to be in the top 1% of total wealth.

a reply to: AlaskanDad

I would think if you raised the minimum wage to a livable wage, you would have less people needing food stamps and government housing. You would also give the economy a boost because there would be more purchasing power.

Business owners would complain about having to raise their hourly wages. However, they should see a return in their investment with an increase in business sales and higher profits in the long run. More people able to spend money on goods and services. Just my thoughts.

I have many friends looking to move out of MN because of the high taxes. They are retired and don't have high incomes. I also am looking to move out of state because of the high taxes. I will be looking in SD because they have no income tax.

Older adults soon to exceed school-age population

By 2020, Minnesota’s 65+ population is expected to exceed our state’s school-age population. Currently, at least 20 percent of residents are over age 65 in one-third of Minnesota’s counties. By 2030, this should be true for every county in Minnesota.
www.mncompass.org...

The population of the whole state of MN is approximately 5.4 million.

Minnesota's per capita income in 2012 $46,227

Minnesotans pay some of the highest taxes in the country.

State taxes in 2013: $3,880 per capita

Minnesota businesses also pay higher taxes. The corporate income tax rate is 9.8% on C corporations but all businesses are subject to a minimum fee ranging from $100 - $5,000. MN collected 1.7 billion in business taxes in 2013. (we had 3 small-medium size businesses move out of our town because of high tax rates in the last 10-15 years)

MN gasoline taxes is 28.6 cents a gallon.

MN sales tax is 6.875 BUT each county can set it's sales tax rate to as high as 7.875 if it chooses.

A pack of cigarettes is $8.00, $2.90 is the cigarette tax

In the county I live in, my property taxes have doubled in the last five years.

I am below the federal poverty income level yet I owe the State of MN taxes every year. (I earn about $12,000/year)

A look at domestic migration within America reveals that Minnesota began losing more people to other states than it gains about ten years ago. As shown in Figure 1, net domestic migration into Minnesota turned negative in 2002 and has remained negative ever since. Comparing the 1990s with the 2000s, U.S. Census Bureau data show Minnesota experienced a net domestic migration gain of 86,847 people during the 1990-1999 period versus a net loss of 43,962 during the 200-2009 period.

www.americanexperiment.org...

Top ten worst states to retire in 2012

7. Minnesota. Another newcomer to our list, Minnesota, would impose the 4th highest income tax on our prototypical couple. That is mostly due to the absence of any pension or social security exemptions. Property taxes are just below the top 10. Minnesota has a large budget deficit issue.

www.topretirements.com...

If you're old and in a nursing home or poor and on assistance, it's a great state to live in, especially in rural areas. If you work and own a house, even a small one, it's tough. The winters are very expensive to heat and summers expensive to cool. Then there's all the taxes.