Political Sleaze...Why We don't Trust Politicians.

This breaking news story here in the UK concerning two main politicians using their positions for personal profit, highlights why the general public do not trust politicians, and why, as politicians act in this manner (no doubt the world over), society is going to hell in a hand basket. Conflict of interest is the least of the bad tastes in one's mouth.

How the hell can one believe in democracy when those we elect to uphold and maintain it act in this way...feathering their own nests on the trust of those who elected them?

www.theguardian.com...

originally posted by: elysiumfire
This breaking news story here in the UK concerning two main politicians using their positions for personal profit, highlights why the general public do not trust politicians, and why, as politicians act in this manner (no doubt the world over), society is going to hell in a hand basket. Conflict of interest is the least of the bad tastes in one's mouth.

How the hell can one believe in democracy when those we elect to uphold and maintain it act in this way...feathering their own nests on the trust of those who elected them?

www.theguardian.com...

The UK is not the only nation that has these issues. The US has the same problem with members of our congress whose spouses all of a sudden come into a lot of money from stocks or government projects.

You put laws in place and when its broken you prosecute.

Absent that its one of the inherent flaws in a democracy.

a reply to: elysiumfire

Here are a few more reasons..........




"I did not have sexual relations with that woman" - Silly Billy

"what difference does it make" - Silly Billys missus

"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do, I will get our troops home and we will end this war – you can take that to the bank" – presidential candidate Barack Obama, Oct 27th 2007.

"Iraq has WMD's"

The Federal Reserve Act.




Honestly, I could do this all day, suffice it to say, I would not piss on a politician even if it was on fire.

Think about this for one moment - if all politicians suddenly vanished off the face of the earth, would we be better off, worse off or no different?

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Sublimecraft...

You encapsulated my thoughts on this matter in a much more concise manner than I ever could have hoped to, had I scribed them myself.

Jolly good show old chap, carry on!

a reply to: Xcathdra

Not really. Corruption is not exclusive to a democracy.

Egoism is not even a flaw... it's just human nature. People are reliably corruptible.

Not taking this fact into consideration, while the powerstructures within our systems clearly encourage corruption, THAT is the flaw.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
Think about this for one moment - if all politicians suddenly vanished off the face of the earth, would we be better off, worse off or no different?

Good question.

Depends on what we'd do next: If we were to replace them with new people, put them in the same positions, with the same powers, in the same corruptible environment, we would get the exact same result again, and again, and again.

a reply to: Xcathdra

And I was really glad to open a thread that wasn't about U.S. corruption.
(As I had assumed)

They have been on tv and radio all morning blaming everyone and their granny.

This is why we pay over the odds for services and our world destroyed, its going on everyday.

I personally would like more of these setups so they become wary of getting involved in these meetings.

a reply to: elysiumfire

It is the third time that reporters have been able to expose the willingness of politicians to make themselves available for hire in covert sting operations, but it has not yet been proved that either figure broke a parliamentary rule.

How can they say that?

The Telegraph and Dispatches said that Jack Straw and Sir Malcolm Rifkind offered to use their positions as politicians on behalf of a fictitious Chinese company set up by Channel 4’s Dispatches in return for payments of at least £5,000 per day.

Isn't it illegal to set up a fictitious Co. (Chinese no less) for profit in your country?
From your LINK

'Straw"man--lol

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: Xcathdra

And I was really glad to open a thread that wasn't about U.S. corruption.
(As I had assumed)

Lol sorry man...

a reply to: elysiumfire

You know, when I saw the headline I was about to come in and say exactly what you've said.

These people are constantly using their position to make themselves richer, and this makes them all extremely corruptible. We should not be accepting politicians who "work the system" to get as much personal wealth as they can. We should have certain laws to ensure they can't do this and are actually there in service to their country rather than themselves.

The level of legalized corruption in government is astounding. We can have absolutely no trust and no faith in any politician when it is seemingly perfectly okay for them to make "back room deals" with corporations for personal profit. This should not be possible, either in office or after it. There should be no opportunity for a politician to sell access or influence, nor should there ever be any possibility of corruption whereby a politician is given a 6 figure position on a board with a company they "helped out" when they were a politician.

This revolving door between corporations, banks and government needs to be shut once and for all.

originally posted by: michael1888

I personally would like more of these setups so they become wary of getting involved in these meetings.

The thing is these setups have been going on since the 80's, and that still hasn't stopped the corruption and greed.
These people are seriously mentally deficient, and it goes to show that if some random fake company can get this kind of access with the temptation of cash, imagine what a foreign government might be able to do.

All this spying and subterfuge, when it seems all an enemy needs to do to get into the heart of our government is pay off some greedy slimy politician looking for some "special friends" in business.

originally posted by: RobinB022

How can they say that?

Because corruption is legal if you're a politician.
The rules around this are completely different for politicians compared to the public. If you or I were working for a corporation (like the politician is supposed to work for the public) and we were caught making deals with a competitor to give them access to information and senior staff, we would be fired, and potentially face charges of industrial sabotage.
But politicians have spent centuries carving out new laws and rules making it perfectly legal for them to profit personally from their positions as employees of the public.
It used to be easy for them, because the public had no right to know about these laws and rules (or almost complete lack of them), but these days we have every right to know what our elected politicians are up to - and they are up to their necks in it.

originally posted by: RobinB022
Isn't it illegal to set up a fictitious Co. (Chinese no less) for profit in your country?

Anyone can start a company and register it, the "fictitious" part simply means that it's not a company actually doing anything or employing anyone. All they did was create a brand identity and register the company here, this is all legal and perfectly fine, as you would be able to do for any new company.

People in a position of authority think they are special and above the law that pertains to the rest of us.

And it's not just politicians....it's military, LEOs, academics, teachers, judges and Corporate executives.

Personally I have lost faith in all institutions that have power and CLAIM to represent the citizens.

The double standard is so apparent and disgusting; the culture of corruption is so blatant, they don't ever bother to hide their crimes.....perhaps I should stop this rant now before I say something I shouldn't and get banned.

a reply to: elysiumfire

It sickens me when they refer to themselves as the political elite or political class (every Thursday on question time some chinless wonder will mention this), they are elected people supposedly in office to represent their constituents views and concerns and these phrases alone , to me, states how removed they are from the people that elected them into office. Every day there seems to be a new revelation of how these people have a scant regard for the majority of people in the U.K and through their malicious (illegal wars, rendition) and self serving attitude (tax avoidance, expenses manipulation ). This will continue as there are no alternative parties out there that have the power to push through or ratify any changes to the current political structure.

The problem is that wanting to be a politician takes being a certain kind of asshole. You have to be able to suck up to anyone to a sickening degree and have the ego the size of a mountain. Because of this landscape, all the people who actually want to change things get washed out in the lower tiers while all the super assholes gravitate towards the top.

One woman put this into perfect words not too long ago..."I’m telling MY government that you have forgotten your place". While generalizing is wrong, everyone in government is corrupt or allowing corruption. If I could restructure it, I would do something like having our representatives drafted, not elected and with maybe a year or two of service maximum. After those years...they couldn't serve again. Careers in politics shouldn't be permitted and the government (in our two party system) needs to report to a third party...not one of themselves. Every ten years or so, all of government including agencies etc. should be (on paper) torn down and then their need for existing, reconsidered. No individual should have to, or be allowed to rely on any part of government for their existence or livelihood.

In short, government service should be more like military service including a severe court martial for breaking the rules including, possible imprisonment. Government service should be something that NEEDS to be done, not something people WANT to do and a non-government policing of the government could be established. Finally...and I'm sure many of you have some awesome ideas too...when a drafted government employee takes an oath, that oath should be considered a legal contract. If you say "I will" and you don't...you have breached your contract and are fired. Learn to say "I will try" instead. Oh...almost forgot...lying while "on the clock" to the people or their representatives is an immediate termination.

The people are supposed to have the final say on how they are lead. We should not be ruled.

I don't think anyone really believes ANYTHING a politician has to say. EVERYTHING they say and do is generated by a want to line their or their supporters pockets.

Always Remember the true meanings of the word politics.
POLI = People
TICS = A blood sucking creature

Can there be any questions?

a reply to: ColCurious

This all starts at home when they are little. You and I and everyone else has a part to play. How do you raise your children? Do you teach them that cheating under any circumstances is wrong? Do you teach them it can be sometimes OK? What about lies? Do you teach them to have honesty, integrity and do you demand those qualities in the people around you?

It's this kind of decline that is enabling corruption. We have gotten to the point where we'd rather have a corrupt politician of our own stripe than an honest one of the other kind. Same with our sports. Who cares how our teams win so long as they do? This all sends a message and our children wind up thinking it's OK to be corrupt little liars themselves.