Dear Christians..

originally posted by: glend

Jesus is one example of a Christ. Buddha is another, so is Krishna, and Egyptian leaders of ancient.

You Christians have the heart, mind, dedication and commitment to reach Christ-Consciousness. But your faith and fear of your god/afterlife, prevent you from reaching these states.

In one breath you say that Jesus had Christ-Consciousness, in another you suggest he wasted his time because of his teachings. I cannot belief that to be the case, Even if one is suspicious of Paulism surely Jesus, if one with God, would have seen that coming.

If you read up of the many Christian saints with miraculous abilities clearly something is going on. Its just another path to the same goal. Please don't obstruct it.

Umm.. what are you going on about?

I never said Jesus wasted his time, I don't believe there was a Christian, white, male with Christ title. So wherever you got your information, wasn't my post.

God and Jesus are not the same thing. Are you confused?

a reply to: Elementalist

Greetings and Salutations- We are ALL 'Creators' working our way back from whence We came, The One Infinite Creator, Hunab Ku, who resides in The Octave.

AnyOne that is looking outside of the Self for answers run the risk of getting 'stuck'. Their energies stuck betwixt dimensions. These are the Ones that have an attachment to their 'Body' Wasn't it Jesus The Christ that said "You are NOT Your body" ? This had to have been prior to "You are The Church™" because when he said this, "They" killed Him and pinned it on His bff, Judas. The only Apostle besides His "Ol Lady" Mary Magdalene that knew the secret. We are ALL "ETERNAL"...

ALL the 'different' religions™ are the "same" so remove what is the same in all the different religions™ and TheTruth will be exposed.. Get caught up living by a "Rule Book" and there are rules in there that You'll NEVER know/understand.. In another 250 years they'll edit it AGAIN..

The Tao that can be told is NOT the eternal Tao...

namaste

P.S. Just as Siddhartha Guatama became The Great Buddha so can You, the "other Me"...

We are just on different paths, together...

a reply to: JimNasium

Thank you for your input, a second read made more sense to me.

You are not the body, means what the body allows you to see and experience is still not you. You are separate (internally) from the outside world.

Internally one can reach amazing potential, as I have said, Christ state consciousness. This takes breaking attachments to the external world, so internal can be revealed.

In my understanding, experience and belief.. 7 billion humans can activate their crowns and become christened - heaven on Earth.

Just the eternal truth is all that is needed

originally posted by: Elementalist
This thread will lay out my thoughts and perception of those who follow this faith. This is NOT a bash thread, I promise, read on please friends.

Im a new member, but have been here for years, and all over the Internet and world learning, sharing, developing, expanding internally and externally.

I have always been very curious about religious followers. Why can't they follow their own path? Why do they belive one man is the answer? Their only introduction to such character was and is a book.

Moving Foward to cut to the chase, I don't like beating around the bush or sugar coating anything. So here is what I have to say, whatever it's worth..

Your commitment, passion, loyalty, kindness and care, has always fascinated me. I perceive you as spiritual beings, which use external tools to guide one in this life, to assure "a good place" in the afterlife.

I went to a Nicherin Buddhist temple recently and was impressed and shocked at the same time.
It was better than many Christian services I have been to and yet far worse.

See as a christian I believe that I am a sinner and my sins condemn me. That means that justice must be served on me, or maybe someone who is willing to pay for my sins. Jesus. Remember your beliefs negate justice or alternately pass them on to your next life where Karma deals out what you deserve. Should I bold the word deserve and state that those who are born in less fortunate circumstances deserve what they get.
Jesus taught compassion and love, taught that we should help the weaker because that is exactly what Jesus did when He lived on earth.

Now as a christian I want to see justice, does that mean bad things will happen? Yes but even our secular governments seek and dispense justice.

Chanting surprised me, it sounded really amazing but reminded me of a flock of mindless drones (yes it does sound rude and blunt but I suspect, you know), repeating for the sake of repeating words that have no real personal meaning to the chanter. It was soulless, impersonal and empty.
Christians pray, for me it is directly to my God, through Jesus. My prayers, my problems, my issues and my joys directly to God. Not some off the page chant based on repetitions to a scroll in a box.


Then there was the enlightenment achieving, by not having anymore questions and just accepting everything you are told (evolutionist like). I believe we should never stop asking questions, searching as individuals.

Insert Jesus remove Karma, insert compassion and love for fellow humanity and Buddhism may be on to something. So close but so far away. Humanity is flesh and blood, Jesus left us His Holy Spirit. Jesus is God.

Another thing that surprised me and I dont know if its just Nicherins but there are no rules, no common standard.

a reply to: Elementalist

"Are you confused?"

Always but hopefully enlightenment might one day fix that.

love and peace.

a reply to: borntowatch

I enjoy your honesty, and depth of your faith you have shared with me. Thank you.

What you said about chanting compared to prayer, is very fair and in a sense I agree with you. Prayer, Wether it's Christian or anyone else, is very powerful in nature, I have seen it's works and felt it within my body/being.

Chanting is the repetition of specific sounds via vocals. The purpose of this practice is; repetitive chanting of the same sound, will reverberate this sound wave through the cellular structures of the chanter - it can bring a state of trance and spontaneous OOBE.

I have an example for you friend; an individual I am connected with on Earth, whom I perceive as a Master of internal works - had a profound and life altering experience while chanting the word "hallelujah" for a couple hours.

The sound vibration of the chant, opened internal "gates" if you will and the individual imploded with internal energy that was felt physically, by those around him.

Chant and prayer are powerful.. here is a second example..

"In the beginning was the word" - words are sounds - sounds alter matter - look into cymatics for a better clue of the nature sound has

Thanks again for stopping by and sharing

“We all know that any emotional bias -- irrespective of truth or falsity -- can be implanted by suggestion in the emotions of the young, hence the inherited traditions of an orthodox community are absolutely without evidential value.... If religion were true, its followers would not try to bludgeon their young into an artificial conformity; but would merely insist on their unbending quest for truth, irrespective of artificial backgrounds or practical consequences. With such an honest and inflexible openness to evidence, they could not fail to receive any real truth which might be manifesting itself around them. The fact that religionists do not follow this honourable course, but cheat at their game by invoking juvenile quasi-hypnosis, is enough to destroy their pretensions in my eyes even if their absurdity were not manifest in every other direction.”
~HP Lovecraft

a reply to: Elementalist

Yes, and once You get the idea that You are "ENERGY", the same that burns as the Sun/Sol. So see/be that energy emanating from the SOLar plexus and not only can One 'leave the body' but can also 'heal thySelf' and when the time comes for "passing" that 'Energy' (that is YOU, transfers...)

You ever see those t.v. programs and the psychic/mediums are in contact? Those are folks/Souls that have got "stuck"... The Ones who look outside of the Self for 'Salvation' are more apt to get 'stuck'... Folks with an "attachment" also run risk of the same Fate..

"You ARE the Church™" Jesus The Christ. So why 'go to Church™"?

worship = war ship

a reply to: JimNasium

Lol.. this is not an adept lesson my friend! I know every aspect and experience you are saying, but leave it for the metaphysical forum please?

This is about Christ consciousness, and the knowledge (or not) if one can attain such. As well as if yhe Christian community could chime in with what I brought forth.

I like your passion for internal expansion, but save it for the metaphysical threads

well said.

I think hypocrisy is the main culprit. people claim to be Christian, yet havent even read the bible, and even if they do, they may not be spiritually intuned enough to truly understand it. Christian hypocrites ruin it for them self and others, and also defame Jesus. I think Jesus is an imperative figure, he demonstrated that death is a laughable matter that is able to be transcended. He proved this by his death, resurrection and ascension. He also claimed multiple times that anyone could do the same as he did. But people are unwilling to completely give up their material life, which is a requirement for spiritual fulfillment. I myself am a hypocrite, because I express Christian ideals but have not done what I know I have to do. I plan to do this soon. From your post it seems as though you are in the same boat, maybe i'll see you on the other side (if that's how it works?). Best of luck.

originally posted by: Elementalist

The sound vibration of the chant, opened internal "gates" if you will and the individual imploded with internal energy that was felt physically, by those around him.

Chant and prayer are powerful.. here is a second example..

"In the beginning was the word" - words are sounds - sounds alter matter - look into cymatics for a better clue of the nature sound has

Thanks again for stopping by and sharing

and sadly this iks where we disagree.

Chanting is a connection equivalent to Christian praise I guess. Hence the hallelujah chant. I accept chanting in a christian sense as a worshiping of God, prayer is very different, prayer is about a personal relationship with the creator, the one and almighty (who is three???)

I understand the power of the word, but in an of itself it is pointless, its for communication, relationship
allthingsworktogether.weebly.com...

I see Buddhism lacking relationship...and I could be wrong, I am not saying I am right, just as I see it.

a reply to: Elementalist

I've always perceived Christ as God looking through the eyes of man

originally posted by: cooperton
well said.

I think hypocrisy is the main culprit. people claim to be Christian,


. He also claimed multiple times that anyone could do the same as he did. But people are unwilling to completely give up their material life, which is a requirement for spiritual fulfillment.

People are people, flawed and carrying their own burdens, blind to what they dont see so we are all broken

Just interested in why you say that Christians have to give up their material lives, where does that come from.

I thought God just wanted a personal relationship, where does this sacrifice of materialism come in to it?

It appears to me that you have a very narrow and quite limited knowledge of salvation.
a reply to: Elementalist

a reply to: Elementalist

Interesting post and question. In no way are you bashing, I applaud your curiosity and questioning.

The terms and philosophy you are referring to is the New Age philosophy. I’ll do my best to describe the Christian point of view in comparison with New Age.

I am a Christian (Greek Orthodox Christian). We differ from our Catholic and Protestant brethren, and in comparison, we generally take a more mystical/organic approach. We have some differences and some similarities of which I won't go in to right now.

In order to accurately answer your questions, I’ll have to explain a few Christian theological points first.

We believe in the Trinity. This does not mean three different gods. The best way I can describe it is what happened with Saint Spyridon at the First Ecumenical council :

“At this Council, St Spyridon displayed the unity of the Holy Trinity in a remarkable way. He took a brick in his hand and squeezed it. At that instant fire shot up from it, water dripped on the ground, and only dust remained in the hands of the wonderworker. “There was only one brick,” St Spyridon said, “but it was composed of three elements. In the Holy Trinity there are three Persons, but only one God.”” Source

One of these persons is Jesus Christ. He is 100% God and 100% Man. What this means is He had a divine and human will. There was not some sudden realization that He was God, as many describe using Buddha and Krishna. Jesus Christ is God incarnate. He is the Word. This is written in John 1:1-5, 14, 18. (If you can read all of 1-18 I would, it is beautifully written)

"1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcomea it.
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
18No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God andb is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."

What’s the point? What is the point of Jesus dying on the cross and resurrecting?

I can’t describe it any better than this (Source), “Orthodox Christians hold that man was originally created in communion with God, but through acting in a manner contrary to his own nature (which is intrinsically ordered to communion with God), he disrupted that communion. Because of man's refusal to fulfill the "image and likeness of God" within him, corruption and the sickness of sin whose consequence is death entered man's mode of existence. But when Jesus came into the world He Himself was Perfect Man and Perfect God united in the divine Hypostasis of the Logos, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. Through his assumption of human nature, human existence was restored, enabling human beings, the fulfilment of creation, through participation in divinity by incorporation into Jesus Christ.”

In other words, according to Saint Athanasius “He was incarnate that we might be made god". Jesus Christ is the path to unity with God. He restored the way through His death and resurrection. He defeated death with His own death. Some refer to Him as the new Adam, because he restored the path to unity with God that Adam lost.

In Orthodox Christianity, the ultimate goal is complete unity with God. The term used is theosis.

Theosis describes the spiritual pilgrimage in which each person becomes ever more perfect, ever more holy, ever more united with God. It is not a static relationship, nor does it take place only after death. On the contrary, theosis is a movement of love toward God which begins for each Christian with the rites of Baptism and which continues throughout this life, as well as the life which is to come. Salvation means liberation from sin, death, and evil. Redemption means our repossession by God. In Orthodoxy, both salvation and redemption are within the context of theosis. This rich vision of Christian life was expressed well by Saint Peter when he wrote in the early pages of his second Epistle that we are called "to become partakers of the Divine nature."

This cannot be accomplished without Jesus Christ. Christ is within us, yes, but this is Jesus Christ, not an impersonal consciousness.

This then goes in to the role of the third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit.

The ever-deepening union of each Christian with God is not a magical or automatic process. While Christ has destroyed the powers of sin, death, and evil once and for all, this victory must be appropriated by each person in cooperation with the Holy Spirit. Each person is called to join with the lifegiving and liberating Spirit" in realizing the fulness of human life in communion with the Father. The Holy Spirit is the agent of deification whose task it is to incorporate us into the life of the Holy Trinity. However, the Spirit always recognizes our human freedom and invites our active cooperation in perfecting the "image and likeness of God" with which each of us is created.

Source

Now, why is it that, no Christian for 2000+ years, has transformed into a Christ? You all follow the same faith, words, and book, who apparently recorded a Christ himself. So why haven't any reached this Christ state, and made it known on a national or global scale?

This is an interesting question. There are those who have reached theosis, which we call saints. These individuals, through the power of Jesus Christ, were able to prophesy, heal, perform miracles, all of these things, but it is not something they can do on their own. That’s why it says in John 15 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.”

Theosis does not mean obtaining some ability and being able to be a god through the polytheistic sense and be super human. Theosis is unity with God by dying to self, through humility, through the ultimate love of God. One cannot achieve this apart from God.

If we go back to Genesis, where the serpent says to Eve, “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” This is the serpent telling Eve she can become like God without God. It is impossible to do so, but Adam and Eve tried by listening to the serpent. Some can argue that the reason Adam and Eve were cast out is not necessarily just because they disobeyed God, but because they sought to become like God without God.

a reply to: borntowatch

"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

“The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

“No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." (Matthew 6:19-24)

I think this passage is a perfect fit. Leaving the material world is also exemplified when Jesus' disciples "drop their nets" (stop their jobs) to follow the life of Christ; the spiritual path of fulfillment.

“Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is – his good, pleasing and perfect will.”
(Romans 12:2)

"flesh gives birth to flesh, but the spirit gives birth to spirit" (John 3:6)

The "Son of Man", literally that which is birthed from man, in the bible is a reference to this spiritual offspring. The body is like an incubation chamber for a developing spirit:

"Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”

Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life."

(Matthew 19: 16, 21-29)

Terrific post Elementalist. Not often am I lured to post in this particular forum. It has to be a special sort of thread to get me in the Religion, Faith, and Theology forum. Often the threads are too rigid and bias for me to feel comfortable participating in. That and, well I'm not Christian or any mainstream faith. I identify with paganism, but I'm solitary and eclectic - so technically my beliefs are really, rather just my own.

I agree with your sentiments and have been saying much the same since I was a teenager. My Christian grandparents were really the ones who opened my mind to Christ and taught me the goal is to be Christ like and that worshiping Christ was sacrilegious (unholy) - as my mother is anti-religion everything. Not that she is not spiritual - mind you - and doesn't believe in god or spirit or anything. She believes in ghosts, after life, the eternal nature of soul. She most definitely does. She believes in it all. She just cannot stomach the hypocrisy in religion. Not just Christianity, but all religions. Even paganism and wicca she stands opposed to.

Whenever I'd ask her why she would say, "No one can lead you to your spirituality. Nothing outside of yourself will get you there. To God. You must go within to find the answers and the way."

So your OP really hit a cord with me, as to the real message Jesus was trying to get out into the world.

I mean in his very own words, according to the bible, from Revelations 22:9 he said, " "No, don't worship me. I am a servant of God, just like you and your brothers the prophets, as well as all who obey what is written in this book. Worship only God!"

So, having read the bible a few times, I get very confused when I hear people refer to Jesus Christ as God. When Christ said - don't do that. Instead, he repeatedly told people - to be like him. That we too could perform the same miracles as he. That through his example, we too could reach Christ consciousness.

S&F. It was an enjoyable and refreshing read.

CdT

Id like to know why they bother me at home ?

a reply to: Elementalist
OP,

I have always been very curious about religious followers. Why can't they follow their own path? Why do they belive one man is the answer? Their only introduction to such character was and is a book.

Well I think the truth of the matter is our introduction to this character isn't a book. Its a collection of 66 documents. Those 66 documents all teach that Jesus of Nazareth was the only way into eternal life.

You asked why we can't follow our own path. I chose to follow the path that is true. I can't help that the truth I found is one man is the answer to salvation. That one man was God in the Flesh. Choosing to follow a path simply because you like it doesn't seem wise to me. Just because something sounds good doesn't mean its true.

Now, why is it that, no Christian for 2000+ years, has transformed into a Christ? You all follow the same faith, words, and book, who apparently recorded a Christ himself. So why haven't any reached this Christ state, and made it known on a national or global scale? Is part of your faith, that only Jesus was able to reach such a state? The word that was translated to "Christ", is a TITLE given to a human, it's not an actual person, that person who was given the TITLE CHRIST, was some one named Jesus who found spiritual expansion (Hence he was/is so revered). Christ is a title given to one who has reached spiritual expansion/ascension internally. There are Christ humans on Earth now and always have been, most live in isolation for obvious reasons (remain hidden from being influenced by others, or Killed by opposers).

Yes it is part of Christian theology that only Jesus can be called, "the Christ." You have said some odd things about the meaning of "Christ". You see Christ in the Bible comes from the greek word "christos" (χριστός), which is the Greek equivalent to the hebrew word "Messiah" (הַמָּשִׁיחַ). Both of these words mean "anointed." The hebrew phrase "ha meschiach" means "the anointed one." It refers a singular person. When we see Jesus the Christ it is a reference to him fulfilling the position of ha meschiach. He is the one and only God-Man sent to redeem us of our sinful nature.

And I don't mean to be rude friend, but your preaching the lie of that caused the fall in the first place. We can be God, and we can God through works of ourselves.

I think you are close to seeing truth friend, but some of your conceptions of truth seem construed by ideas that sound appeasing, but to me are not truth .

That's funny. In my frustration with the world and my constant yearning for something more, yet not finding any religion that "speaks to me" nor even really emphasizes (not really) developing a personal relationship with God and living your life based on that relationship, I said to hell with it--why not just make my own?

Yes, I'm slowly creating a new religion. And it addresses many of the concerns raised in the OP, which I thought was... well, not coincidental at all, actually.

So why not? Tired of this s#. No dogma. No man to idolize/worship. No fairy tales. No visitations. Just living your own personal relationship with God while helping other people in the company of others who do the same.

Novel concept, no? No one will like it. There's no boogeyman to scare you into being a good and charitable person. You will have to do it because you actually want to.

End crazy rant. Will post results.