Jesus said; Judge not

We are to judge ourselfs nowhere does it say we are judge unbeleivers. We are not to be fruit inspectors of others.
a reply to: DISRAELI

originally posted by: lonesomerimbaud
Also, I have wondered about modern Law. For example, if someone was to murder me how can I or my family be somehow magically consoled by the fact they go to prison for a very long time or are even executed (as some U.S states still practise)?...Judgement is an act of Law and an act of decision making. There are different meanings. Jesus is relating it to sin and punishment. He is telling humanity that we are not qualified to dispense true justice.

Part of the difference between the kind of judging which happens in court and the judgementalism which Jesus was warning about is that the judges are not acting for themselves. They are not, or should not be, pursuing personal vendettas, and they should not be getting their passions involved.
They are simply the agents of society for doing what needs to be done to discourage criminal behaviour.
If nothing at all was done about acts of murder, then acts of murder would become even more common, so doing nothing is not an acceptable option.
Judging in court ought to be nothing more than the discernment of right and wrong and doing something to inhibit the wrong.

originally posted by: dartyparty
a reply to: DISRAELI

Judging what is right and wrong isn't judging?

The whole point of human original sin is that we ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil when it was the only Law God had given us not to do that.

We committed the original adultery and split our souls into a polarity of opposites, good and evil. We brought evil upon us by our own actions against God's Will.

For me as a Christian it is the greatest lesson of all that truly I am not actually able to know what is good and evil. It is knowledge that a human being is not able to properly comprehend; judging between what is good an what is evil. If any human being told me they did understand what good and evil truly are I would only laugh and not believe them. A history of human errors has taught me that much.

originally posted by: dartyparty
Maybe you should try reasoning and not simply quoting old books.

The purpose of this thread is to examine the meaning of a particular Biblical statement, so "quoting old books" is the way it works.

It's called Theology.
If you want pure philosophy, there is a separate philosophy forum.

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: lonesomerimbaud
Also, I have wondered about modern Law. For example, if someone was to murder me how can I or my family be somehow magically consoled by the fact they go to prison for a very long time or are even executed (as some U.S states still practise)?...Judgement is an act of Law and an act of decision making. There are different meanings. Jesus is relating it to sin and punishment. He is telling humanity that we are not qualified to dispense true justice.

Part of the difference between the kind of judging which happens in court and the judgementalism which Jesus was warning about is that the judges are not acting for themselves. They are not, or should not be, pusuing personal vendettas, and they should not be getting their passions involved.
They are simply the agents of society for doing what needs to be done to discourage criminal behaviour.
If nothing at all was done about acts of murder, then acts of murder would become even more common, so doing nothing is not an acceptable option.
Judging in court ought to be nothing more than the discernment of right and wrong and doing something to inhibit the wrong.

Yes, that much is obvious. Yet the judges at Law are not giving me justice. They could give my parents a million dollars, gas the murderer or lock him up for the rest of his life, but that will not make me feel better or bring me back from the dead. Those judges are acting on behalf of society to keep it functioning.

As we know these judges at Law make some enormous errors and convict innocent people, they sentence people to death (sometimes innocent people), they are sometimes corrupted. All the earthly errors are present in the courtroom, you know this as well as I.

I live what I believe. Nobody has ever gone to court on account of me. Like Jesus said I settled it before it reached the courtroom and forgave them. I feel light as a feather, just like Jesus told me that His yoke was light. I've known some horribly twisted judgemental people in my time. They are carrying a very unnecessary crippling weight upon their souls.

a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

But in order to know you needed to settle with someone and forgive, you had to discern that some wrong was done. Hence you had to make a judgment.

originally posted by: lonesomerimbaud
"Judging in court ought to be nothing more than the discernment of right and wrong and doing something to inhibit the wrong."
Yes, that much is obvious.

The difference between judging in a court case and the kind of "judging" which Jesus was warning against ought to be obvious, certainly, but doesn't seem to be obvious to everybody.
I once saw (in a university town) a wall graffito to the effect that the legal system was wrong in principle because "no man is good enough to judge another", the kind of confusion of thought which I've been trying to clear up.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Yes, I agree with all you say. I am merely pointing out that even with the best will in the world us humans will make dreadful errors of judgement.

Of course it is all relative and we have to do what we have to do in this muddle of a puddle of existence.

I was being serious when I said I have managed to keep everything out of the courtroom to date. On that score you bet I take Christ's Teachings very seriously indeed. Like everything else it is hard to try and live up to, but the judgement I try to leave to God.

Always so good to read your threads. You get me thinking about these things. Thanks.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

But in order to know you needed to settle with someone and forgive, you had to discern that some wrong was done. Hence you had to make a judgment.

Yes, a judgement as a decision, but only to forgive and leave the punishment to God. I know the justice system is paramount in a civilized society and no contention there. Yet you know what Jesus said about settling matters before it gets to court, well it is something worth trying - I can vouch for that.

a reply to: dartyparty

Lol, you'll be lucky to get to the first post of making a first post with an attitude like this. Your punishment for this heinous crime should be deprivation of milk and cookies before bed, that is my judgement.

a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

Well, try being the parent of a small child sometime without judging. It's pretty much impossible.