The Great Lakes are freezing!

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

That temperature I gave before wasn't the wind chill. That was the actual air temperature.

Lake Erie has always frozen over, in fact we have snowmobilers who take their rides out on the lake to try and reach Canada. (the Coast Guard are always rescuing lost them too cause they forget to take a compass and get disoriented out on the ice.)

a reply to: cmdrkeenkid

More than a 'couple' where I live and in lee of Lake Huron, it's weeks of road closures. Going north of Toronto has been a situation where you might make it today, but you're not getting back tomorrow because of squalls off Georgian Bay.

It was -26 Cels when I got up this morning. Add a strong westerly wind and open water would be closing roads, especially Hwy 21 from Goderich to Owen Sound.

a reply to: masqua

Sounds awful. We're positioned at the eastern end of the "banana belt"in the UP. Wrong side of Lake Michigan for lake effect snow there; too far from Lake Superior for much of it from there. All-in-all, I think we've had about 60 inches of snow so far this season. Good luck and stay out of it if you can.

Wonder if the pressure from the coming glacial period will cause Yellow Stone to blow.

a reply to: Xeven

Wonder if the pressure from the coming glacial period will cause Yellow Stone to blow.

That would be the least of our problem. Think about all this ice that would have "phase changed" and gobled all the energy of the Earth. Yellow Stone will be energy pumped to the death!

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: PeterMcFly

A phase state change, such as freezing, requires energy.

Could you expand on this a bit, I'm not sure I understand. Thanks

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71

Hot water does not "always" freeze faster than cold water.
You are referring to the mpemba effect and it only occurs sometimes. There is still great debate as to why is happens. Science still can't explain why water expands when it freezes either.

It did when I was at school and still does over here in the UK it's due to crystallisation where the molecules of water iare further apart than they are in liquid form.

Sorry to do this but DUH! the amount of ignorance about science in this thread has reached the annoying point.

originally posted by: yorkshirelad

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71

Hot water does not "always" freeze faster than cold water.
You are referring to the mpemba effect and it only occurs sometimes. There is still great debate as to why is happens. Science still can't explain why water expands when it freezes either.

It did when I was at school and still does over here in the UK it's due to crystallisation where the molecules of water iare further apart than they are in liquid form.

Sorry to do this but DUH! the amount of ignorance about science in this thread has reached the annoying point.

Read the second paragraph in this link please.

www.iflscience.com...

Or read this page please.

math.ucr.edu...

ok. I showed you mine now show me yours..

a reply to: yorkshirelad

Sorry to do this but DUH! the amount of ignorance about science in this thread has reached the annoying point.

And please enlighten us what is the OVERALL energy budget of water going from liquid to solid after all those interesting molecular things and the crystallography stuff?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: PeterMcFly

A phase state change, such as freezing, requires energy, that is why hot water freezes more rapidly in your refrigerator than cold water. (You can confirm this yourself with a simple experiment.) The Great Lakes have started freezing recently due to a combination of increased heat (energy) and the shifting of the jet stream due to low pressure systems forming in the west of North America due to, yes, global warming.

I call the National Weather Service every fall to check on the Lake Superior temperatures. The last two years the temperatures were below the long term average, meaning that they could freeze over easier but also lowers evaporation that means lake levels rise. So being that the temperature of Lake Superior was colder this fall means your supplied hypothesis is not relevant. I have been calling the NWS for years, the farther away open water is, the lower the chances of snow piling up in my driveway. I always have a five to ten minute discussion with them when I call. But even they, with all their evidence, cannot predict the weather sometimes.

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: PeterMcFly

A phase state change, such as freezing, requires energy, that is why hot water freezes more rapidly in your refrigerator than cold water. (You can confirm this yourself with a simple experiment.) The Great Lakes have started freezing recently due to a combination of increased heat (energy) and the shifting of the jet stream due to low pressure systems forming in the west of North America due to, yes, global warming.

Hot water does not "always" freeze faster than cold water.
You are referring to the mpemba effect and it only occurs sometimes. There is still great debate as to why is happens. Science still can't explain why water expands when it freezes either.

This frozen Great Lake reminds me of the time they stocked white tail deer on mackinac island. The first winter after the stocking, the lake froze and the deer walked off the island. Bbwwahahahaha

Lol

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71

originally posted by: yorkshirelad

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71

Hot water does not "always" freeze faster than cold water.
You are referring to the mpemba effect and it only occurs sometimes. There is still great debate as to why is happens. Science still can't explain why water expands when it freezes either.

It did when I was at school and still does over here in the UK it's due to crystallisation where the molecules of water iare further apart than they are in liquid form.

Sorry to do this but DUH! the amount of ignorance about science in this thread has reached the annoying point.

Read the second paragraph in this link please.

www.iflscience.com...

Or read this page please.

math.ucr.edu...

ok. I showed you mine now show me yours..

The poster was referring to your last sentence about why water expands when it freezes.

As long as I can remember, the great lakes freeze every winter. Sometimes more sometimes less. The reason we get lake effect snow during the earlier part of the winter is because the lakes are not frozen over. Until we start entering the early part of January and into the month of February is when the lakes finally freeze over. Great time to go ice fishing!

a reply to: PeterMcFly

Not new...not unusual. I used to drive my car way out onto the ice on Erie, Huron, etc and do donuts-spinouts with my friends from high school.

My parents are MI natives. It's normal for the lakes to freeze over, no biggie. My mom said once, "If the lakes freeze completely or mostly over, the lake effect snow decreases & it's going to be colder. If there's still open water, and & it's still really cold, expect lots of snow. You get one or the other, always have."

I'm in Southwest Michigan right on the lake and we have probably had lots of snow but it's in Ohio now because of the wind. Only -7 this morning because of the lake keeping us warm. Of course in May it will be 35 while 10 miles inland it'll be 60 because of the cooling from the lake.

a reply to: PeterMcFly

What you have to ask yourself is;

A) Did the climate change?
B) Did you pay enough taxes?
C) Are you cold in the winter?
D) Warm in the summer?
E) Is Al Gore a noodle-brain?

If you answer yes to all of these, then that is the formula for settled science. It is actually your fault that the lakes are freezing and it is probably your fault that tiny kittens will now die.

This "lake freezing" has never happened in all the recorded history (since August of 2014) so when your mother said, "Shut the door! You'll let out all the cold air!"

She was right.

So listen to your mother.
Pay more in taxes.
Apologize for freezing the lakes.

And it might be better in the next 1,000 years, or by June.

Whichever comes first.

I'm sure many lakes are freezing, it's February. Just more global warming hype.. the lakes will thaw out come March, I lived on lake Ontario for 20 years.

a reply to: beezzer

I wondered how long it would take before somebody brought climate change into the discussion.



My take is this... the climate has always been and will always continue to change. It's the nature of our planet since it has a 'wobble' which determines overall weather patterns on a millennial scale.

But that's not what is causing the jet stream to dip so far down that it impacts the southern parts of America. What's at play now is called El Nino, where warm Pacific Ocean water currents pump heat all the way up to Alaska and interrupting the general west to east wind patterns, stalling Arctic and driving the jet stream south.

Last winter, we had a temporary Polar Vortex because of a large low pressure area that brought a lot of warm, wet air into Alaska. This winter, it's a long-term system doing the same, but due to the current El Nino it's going to last for more than a month (last I heard, the Arctic air will be around for another 3 weeks at a minimum).

Climate change is another topic entirely than this particular cold snap.