Scripture Pundits, do you actually believe everything you read as a truism

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

ketsudo: Since the whole mission of life is to step away from your flesh toward the spirit, then you are born as a being wholly mired in the flesh. Infants and young children are a lot like little animals in that they act primarily on instinct and them graduate to an entirely self-centered and selfish world-view. Part of your job as a parent is to train them to think of and consider others, otherwise they will go right on living a worldly and self-centered life that goes completely counter to what Christ teaches.

Apparently this is so; not so 'self centered' initially, as are 'innocent babes' but then become 'socialized' to the environment brought up within so goes the CHOICE to be whatever they want TO BE (self determinism at work here) a party animal, a criminal or a preacher in/of wholly in consideration to others (a do gooder). The self-centered life is always accepted/approved of; you can see the benefits (that soul is allowed to be privileged; as well as alternately choosing to live in abject poverty). There are no victims, one chooses its own life path. This 'rational/normal' idea of Parenting seems to have jumped 20 floors below to its death 15 years ago; replaced by "I am not your parent, I am instead your peer" as am your exact emotional age as you grow; I experience 'in empathy';experience your 2 year awareness (as I am you).

Ketsudo: It's just natural instinct to go that way. Look at nature which is why I say this "back to nature" movement is not necessarily something you should trust in all things. Just because you see something in nature doesn't make it moral.
Chris was a special case and likely born somewhat self aware and thus able to control himself from the start; something human infants are not able to do.

Giving Jesus supernatural powers we do not have (I thought he was super hero from jump). Special cases; as example to the rest of us peons (we are special cases) YES; and not as dis-missable as Atheists would imagine Think "Beast Wars" and the production crew behind its creation.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

Vetting the human: You do not know what Christ Consciousness entails? Now we are 'relatively innocent at birth' but have capacity to fathom evil as a helpless infant? Your explanation of the virgin birth of Jesus is compelling (to bypass the sins of the father) but I thought GOD is/was Jesus's father (or so Gabriel tells it so God is the culprit here). Jesus's soul is eternal so would never experience a 'spiritual death'. His physical death was the message "I am more than my material body AND SO ARE YOU". Jesus did not save me from myself.

BELIEVERpriest: By Christ consciousness, are you refering to learning the mind of christ in the bible, or are you refering to the Theosophical term?

Both, one is ACTIVE; being/existing within Christ in understanding; the other is a INACTIVE; philosophical pondering the existence of.

BELIEVERpriest: A child is fallen even at birth, as he/she will grow up to become disobediant on some level, however, a child cannot be held accountable for what he/she cannot comprehend. It is not until we are aware of our fallen nature and God's existance that we can be held accountable. That age is different for each person.

Why then chose to incarnate if already handicapped (to find Jesus's message) tell that to the rest of world that has a faith based in Islam, Hindu, Buddhism that ring true to their awareness of God. What is it with this negative message of yours WE ARE SUNK, FALLEN CREATURES (unless we are held accountable TO WHAT?) Gods to blame I am finger pointing RIGHT NOW, as I was never given the 'Procedural Manual' (at birth) as to how to be a Good Human and gain Gods GRACE. Why does this have to be a perpetual guessing game?

BELIEVERpriest: God is indeed Jesus' father, that is why He was born without sin.

Humans consist of body, soul, and spirit (i have experienced the soul-spirit dichodomy in various OOBEs). At birth, our immortal soul is imputed to the body, but the spirit is stillborn. This is why we must be born again (notice that we are not saved by being 'concieved again'). Jesus suffered temporary separation from the Father which resulted in spirit-death not soul-death, but being God, His spirit was revived.

Are we different and if so why (don't tell me we are the bald headed step children). I also have experienced the higher dimensions in the form of OOBE's. I'm not sure I want to return here as a new incarnation of myself.

VHB: Why do you have a problem with those claiming to admire Jesus, are you 'more in the knowledge' and those others not as WORTHY, how do you make that judgement call upon others? Narrowness is not the way to heaven.

BELIEVERpriest: My knowledge of Christ is not of myself, therefore I cannot boast, I simply find it distatefull to claim to respect the /of Jesus Christ, without respecting His word.
A perfect example: You say the way to heaven in not narrow, but broad, yet Jesus said the absolute opposite. He said, wide is the gate to hell, and narrow is the path to heaven (of course I am paraphrasing feel free to quote the scripture).
This is a classic example of "admiring" Christ, but rejectig His wisdom.

Not sure Jesus believed in 'HELL' as he was a gnostic and knew the truth about that falsity (hell is something one creates for oneself perfectly orchestrated to suit crimes committed). I wouldn't know about classic examples of 'admiring' Christ; not sure how one could in the process of accepting HIM reject the wisdom imparted.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Something I didn't add being pressed for time is that the big difference between animals and humans is that animals are innocent. They lack the capacity to ever really judge a right action from a wrong action or know good from evil. We do, and because we do, we are held to that standard and have the responsibility to do so.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Something I didn't add being pressed for time is that the big difference between animals and humans is that animals are innocent. They lack the capacity to ever really judge a right action from a wrong action or know good from evil. We do, and because we do, we are held to that standard and have the responsibility to do so.

And the animals were all so innocent that your god apparently drowned them ALL....

Can you imagine and panic and terror those innocent animals would've gone through before they were overcome by the waters?.....

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I dont believe in reincarnation, therefore I did not choose to be born. Nor do I believe in the Theosophical Christ consciousness.

The world is not a guessing game, as I just gave you the initial answer you need to find your way, and God has provided a procedural manual for life through His word. The difference between faith in Christ and Religion is works. Jesus does not ask for your works to attain eternal life, simply faith. On the other hand, religion will send you on a wild goose chase all the way to hell.

Jesus was not a Gnostic, and He did believe in hell. He called it the place of "weeping and gnashing of teeth", and He even went as far to witness to the fallen angels in hell just before leading the believers in paradise to heaven.

a reply to: Prezbo369

Is it any more or less than the fear or terror the dinosaurs felt when the asteroid wiped them out?

a reply to: vethumanbeing

My problem when talking to people about the Bible, even other believers sometimes, is that no one takes the bible for what it is. What do I mean by that? Whenever we as people pick up a book and begin reading we don't have the questions everyone always ask about the Bible. If I pick up Homer's Iliad and begin reading it becomes quite obvious that I am reading epic poetry and that there will mostly be some metaphor and it is also unreliable for fact. As opposed to say if I open up Josephus's Antiquities of the Jews I see that it is written in historical narrative and doubt there will be much metaphor and imagery. If there is I assume context will show that to me clearly. Why can't people do this with the 66 books of the Bible......I mean revelations is apocalyptic literature. Obviously going to be doused in metaphor. Psalms is poetic literature. Again probably not to be interpreted literally most of the time. Luke, Mark, Matthew, and John are all written in historical narrative, so the writers of these books at least believed they were historical events.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Something I didn't add being pressed for time is that the big difference between animals and humans is that animals are innocent. They lack the capacity to ever really judge a right action from a wrong action or know good from evil. We do, and because we do, we are held to that standard and have the responsibility to do so.

Innocent only in (what you are falsely attributing/observing) is the fact they are expressions of an ecosystem that includes predators, which they know 'instinctively' are in danger at all times. You are observing this from the compassionate human point of view. They are born into this reality to serve a purpose (promote life cycles) and know it at a very base elemental level. They have no capacity to reason (FOR A REASON). This is why the human was garnered/anointed with the monumental task of being a 'husbander' to all lower life forms. You have one thing right which you were thinking but did not say "humans are the major predator".

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

BELIEVERpriest: I dont believe in reincarnation, therefore I did not choose to be born. Nor do I believe in the Theosophical Christ consciousness.

Well, that's a relief for me (no need to worry about your souls progression). Choosing to be born has no thing to do with reincarnation. It is good you are a skeptic regarding anything theosophical; (not sure how far that will get you in *again* a PROGRESSION of your individualized soul).

BELIEVERpriest: The world is not a guessing game, as I just gave you the initial answer you need to find your way, and God has provided a procedural manual for life through His word. The difference between faith in Christ and Religion is works. Jesus does not ask for your works to attain eternal life, simply faith. On the other hand, religion will send you on a wild goose chase all the way to hell.

Oh but it is a guessing game and outstanding in its vagueness, no new epistles in 1700 years. Whatever causes you to think I am not a fan of Master Jesus and respect his gnostic teachings?

BELIEVERpriest: Jesus was not a Gnostic, and He did believe in hell. He called it the place of "weeping and gnashing of teeth", and He even went as far to witness to the fallen angels in hell just before leading the believers in paradise to heaven.

Its not a general place (like a holding cell at county jail). It is something each human creates for itself; specifically designed to accommodate that individual in order to show that person the particular evils it has caused unto others. I suppose Jesus was shown something peculiar to his knowledge; something referencing the Torah/Talmud. He rejected those teachings and created another pathway (doubt he would see the same vision of hell NOW).

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

ServantOfTheLamb: My problem when talking to people about the Bible, even other believers sometimes, is that no one takes the bible for what it is. What do I mean by that? Whenever we as people pick up a book and begin reading we don't have the questions everyone always ask about the Bible.

You are saying you are reading with objectivity (no expectations). I would say some require definitive 'revelation' imparted content wise (they will be disappointed) as it is an ancient narrative (GOOD WISDOM HERE) but still much like Herodotus Histories are (read wearing asbestos gloves). I at times wonder if the bible is coded to open a key point recognition for some that need it.

ServantOfTheLamb: If I pick up Homer's Iliad and begin reading it becomes quite obvious that I am reading epic poetry and that there will mostly be some metaphor and it is also unreliable for fact. As opposed to say if I open up Josephus's Antiquities of the Jews I see that it is written in historical narrative and doubt there will be much metaphor and imagery. If there is I assume context will show that to me clearly.

Yes it would and does. These texts do not remain in existence by accident. There is so much wisdom contained in the classics that would (if people read them) could balance or make common sense of the strident dogmatic writings; then one could reasonably opt into that belief system having some ground to do so with objectivity.

ServantOfTheLamb: Why can't people do this with the 66 books of the Bible......I mean revelations is apocalyptic literature. Obviously going to be doused in metaphor. Psalms is poetic literature. Again probably not to be interpreted literally most of the time. Luke, Mark, Matthew, and John are all written in historical narrative, so the writers of these books at least believed they were historical events.

I particularly like Psalms; but understand as you say its outstanding literature. Each of the four testaments has an agenda (even though they seem to parrot each other in mimicry) the point of view described in each one very subtly opposes the other. No one is going to speak of this. Thank you for your reply.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Something I didn't add being pressed for time is that the big difference between animals and humans is that animals are innocent. They lack the capacity to ever really judge a right action from a wrong action or know good from evil. We do, and because we do, we are held to that standard and have the responsibility to do so.

Humans are animals: mammals.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Something I didn't add being pressed for time is that the big difference between animals and humans is that animals are innocent. They lack the capacity to ever really judge a right action from a wrong action or know good from evil. We do, and because we do, we are held to that standard and have the responsibility to do so.

Humans are animals: mammals.

Yes, Manimals.

originally posted by: Prezbo369

Yes, I see the metaphor; the bird (vague falcon-like similarities with a reluctant human depicted as a "tree stand") ON THE HAND is worth two ON/in the bush. One truth trumps two false lies; OR one bird ON the hand lays two eggs and you will benefit, by investing in the progeny, GOLD INVESTMENT in the Falcon gold/god stores (pretty sure maybe almost certain it could work) OR dispatch two humans with one falcon thrown.