Chris Kyle Murder, More than One Shooter?

a reply to: Answer

And making an assumption that a former SEAL ignored his own text saying Routh was crazy with Littlefield saying watch my six.

Yup

Btw, have decades of range time and have no need for primers.

originally posted by: swimmer15
a reply to: Shamrock6

They bring all this forward after the fact, easy to do but never did anything to get in trouble or diagnosed prior too? Im sure a very large percentage of people have snapped on somone before.. Military prob higher, your forced to rely on people who just aren't reliable... If you can get through a tour of active duty without killing somone you demonstrate a hell of a degree of patience.

Want to clearify that some/many are not reliable... There are many who down right handle business.

Trust me, he had issues before he joined the USMC. Those issues were undiagnosed because his family is not the type to take someone to a psychiatrist. They'd rather just keep a secret and pray about it.

I can't elaborate further.

originally posted by: Phoenix
a reply to: Answer

And making an assumption that a former SEAL ignored his own text saying Routh was crazy with Littlefield saying watch my six.

Yup

Btw, have decades of range time and have no need for primers.

I'll make an assumption that I know more about this case than you since you're doing nothing but postulating. My other posts will probably infer that, as well.

Yes, the text messages confirm that the two men were concerned about Routh's state of mind but they weren't going to stand guard the entire time they're on the range. Routh acted alone. Period.

a reply to: Answer

Im not doubting that this guy was likely trouble just dont think he was really insane. His family not being the type is one thing, military is a whole different beast. If whats said about Routh is true he'd had to have been a golden boy to stay out of trouble. Meaning people would have had put careers on the line to cover for him unless he was a steller soldier. Sounds like this is unlikely based on accounts from people he served with, of course thats speculation as not much available about his time in service aside from accounts. I have no doubts People in service would have pushed his buttons enough for him to snap if he realy was that crazy. Like i said befor, forced to rely on people... Its not just man/women covering your six.. Admin, medical, gally, birthing... Idiots who like to just prove they are in charge....i find it pretty hard to believe he was that crazy and he made it through boot even without getting in serious trouble. And you constantly have to deal with that, even medical/ dental with checkups and immunizations, etc. my blood used to boil at just the thought of having go to medical and i was Navy (considered by many to be the best).
Again i don't really think there was a second shooter, I think its possible though. I don't know, the guy was mixing some strong drugs and booze at the time.

originally posted by: Answer


I'll make an assumption that I know more about this case than you since you're doing nothing but postulating. My other posts will probably infer that, as well.

Yes, the text messages confirm that the two men were concerned about Routh's state of mind but they weren't going to stand guard the entire time they're on the range. Routh acted alone. Period.

Speculation and postulation is what this forum is for - am I wrong?

We certainly have differing views on what may be infered from trial information which is after all an opinion.

My opinion is Routh MAY not have acted alone.

a reply to: swimmer15

People can hide a lot, even from the military.

Just look at other current/former military members who have committed murder. Eddie Ray Routh is definitely not the first so concealing mental instability from the military is certainly not impossible. Most people living with undiagnosed mental problems have been concealing it their entire lives.

I wouldn't say he "snapped." He was in a very dark place, had given up on life, and decided to kill 2 people to steal a truck because he just didn't care about getting caught. They'll try to use PTSD as an excuse but I find it more likely that Routh was massively depressed, psychopathic, and no longer cared about the consequences of his actions.

originally posted by: Phoenix

originally posted by: Answer


I'll make an assumption that I know more about this case than you since you're doing nothing but postulating. My other posts will probably infer that, as well.

Yes, the text messages confirm that the two men were concerned about Routh's state of mind but they weren't going to stand guard the entire time they're on the range. Routh acted alone. Period.

Speculation and postulation is what this forum is for - am I wrong?

We certainly have differing views on what may be infered from trial information which is after all an opinion.

My opinion is Routh MAY not have acted alone.

Speculation and postulation are fine. I'm not faulting you for that.

What I am saying is that I'm intimately familiar with this case and not merely stating opinions based on snippets of evidence coming out of the trial.

For obvious reasons, I can't give full details to back up my claims so forgive me for being cryptic.

a reply to: Answer

Your prob right on with with this post, add into the equation that at the time he was on a bad mix of drugs and booze. We'll likely get a better picture of events soon, prosecution rest today. Im sure after the trial more info will come out.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Phoenix

originally posted by: Answer


I'll make an assumption that I know more about this case than you since you're doing nothing but postulating. My other posts will probably infer that, as well.

Yes, the text messages confirm that the two men were concerned about Routh's state of mind but they weren't going to stand guard the entire time they're on the range. Routh acted alone. Period.

Speculation and postulation is what this forum is for - am I wrong?

We certainly have differing views on what may be infered from trial information which is after all an opinion.

My opinion is Routh MAY not have acted alone.

Speculation and postulation are fine. I'm not faulting you for that.

What I am saying is that I'm intimately familiar with this case and not merely stating opinions based on snippets of evidence coming out of the trial.

For obvious reasons, I can't give full details to back up my claims so forgive me for being cryptic.

What "obvious reasons" are you hiding behind? If you know details of the case that haven't been released, please inform us so we can all know the facts. Forgive me if I'm going out of bounds here but claiming "intimate" familiarity with the case and then saying you can't say----just sends my eyebrows upward. It reminds me of the schoolyard where one kid says, "Neener, neener, I know everything and I'm not telling'!"
So tell us, how did he get the drop on two trained men with guns? Sorry, "They weren't paying attention" just doesn't work in light of the text reported.

originally posted by: diggindirt

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Phoenix

originally posted by: Answer


I'll make an assumption that I know more about this case than you since you're doing nothing but postulating. My other posts will probably infer that, as well.

Yes, the text messages confirm that the two men were concerned about Routh's state of mind but they weren't going to stand guard the entire time they're on the range. Routh acted alone. Period.

Speculation and postulation is what this forum is for - am I wrong?

We certainly have differing views on what may be infered from trial information which is after all an opinion.

My opinion is Routh MAY not have acted alone.

Speculation and postulation are fine. I'm not faulting you for that.

What I am saying is that I'm intimately familiar with this case and not merely stating opinions based on snippets of evidence coming out of the trial.

For obvious reasons, I can't give full details to back up my claims so forgive me for being cryptic.

What "obvious reasons" are you hiding behind? If you know details of the case that haven't been released, please inform us so we can all know the facts. Forgive me if I'm going out of bounds here but claiming "intimate" familiarity with the case and then saying you can't say----just sends my eyebrows upward. It reminds me of the schoolyard where one kid says, "Neener, neener, I know everything and I'm not telling'!"
So tell us, how did he get the drop on two trained men with guns? Sorry, "They weren't paying attention" just doesn't work in light of the text reported.

I already posted a plausible scenario in this thread for how the murders took place.

Obviously there is an ongoing trial and if details haven't been released, there's a reason they haven't been released. Besides, anything I say here can be accepted or dismissed at will so it really doesn't matter what I post. I'm trying to say as much as I can without being too specific. You can believe me or not, it's all the same to me.

a reply to: Answer
Fair enough. So, you're going with the "They weren't paying attention" theory. I just have a bit of a problem accepting that one in light of the warning.
In all honesty, I have a bit of a problem with the entire scenario. The shooting range would be the last place I'd take a guy who was having mental issues and drinking heavily. And these guys handed him loaded guns? I find it incredibly sad that they paid with their lives for their poor judgement.

originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: Answer
Fair enough. So, you're going with the "They weren't paying attention" theory. I just have a bit of a problem accepting that one in light of the warning.
In all honesty, I have a bit of a problem with the entire scenario. The shooting range would be the last place I'd take a guy who was having mental issues and drinking heavily. And these guys handed him loaded guns? I find it incredibly sad that they paid with their lives for their poor judgement.

Kyle didn't know Routh. He didn't know he had mental issues and was drinking heavily.

Routh's mother contacted Kyle asking him to help out her son because he was feeling down. Kyle often used the shooting range as therapy for wounded/depressed veterans.

The text messages show that Kyle got a vibe that Routh had some screws loose on the way to the range. That doesn't mean that either he or Littlefield suspected Routh was capable of murder. If they thought he was that nuts, they would have turned around and gone home instead of continuing to the range. I've met plenty of gun owners who would fit many people's definition of "nuts" but they are not homicidal.

I'm sure you've met some people before that you thought were a bit off their rocker but you don't immediately think "this guy will shoot me if I hand him a gun."

Hindsight is always 20/20.

"They weren't paying attention" is one way to put it. Another way to put it is they were doing normal range activities and Routh turned his gun on them and killed them. Were they supposed to stand behind Routh with guns drawn the entire time? It's easy to look back on the situation and say "they should have done this" or "why did they do that?" but no one ever sees these sorts of attacks coming. As unfortunate as it all is, there's no conspiracy with this one.

a reply to: Answer

I'd hope that when defense rests that you can elaborate about that intimate knowledge you talk of.

Until then there are things that just don't quite fit the story.

Yes I've considered the scenario you laid out earlier and it's OK but rests on a lack of vigilance that even I as a civilian have as an inate talent.

No way me or anyone I hang with would not have had kept an eye on Routh the whole time period.

originally posted by: Phoenix



No way me or anyone I hang with would not have had kept an eye on Routh the whole time period.

It's quite possible that they were keeping an eye on him right up until the shooting happened.

It's quite possible that Routh went to the truck to grab something, or to reload his magazines, or any other activity where he didn't seem to be an immediate threat and at that moment, Chris stepped over to help Littlefield with something...

There are a lot of ways that things can go down in real life. It's typically not as clear cut as the imagination tries to piece it together.

Now that some of the transcripts of Routh's video are out, it's obvious that Routh is trying to play the insanity card by saying a bunch of gibberish. Hopefully the headshrinkers will sniff out that he's not as nuts as he tried to appear.

a reply to: Phoenix

So when you go to a range, you're looking behind you the entire time? How do you shoot? How do you stay in your lane? Because im fairly certain that it would be monumentally difficult to keep track of somebody behind you from beginning to end while simultaneously shooting.

All it takes is one second for things to go sideways. That's it.

And why, oh why, do people keep referring to Littlefield as "trained" either highly, extensively, or otherwise? Trained as what?!?