Chris Kyle Murder, More than One Shooter?

Been following Chris Kyle stories since reading American Sniper at its original release. The Jesse Ventura saga as it unfolded and now the Eddie Routh murder trial which resumes today.

At first glance when reading most MSM accounts of the murders it seems cut and dried that Routh was a PTSD suffering ex-soldier who out of paranoia/insanity shot Kyle and Littlefield then stole Kyle's truck. The trial seems solely focused on Routh's mental state rather than his ability or motivation to carry out the crime. I believe something is being missed or covered up - especially in light of trial testimony detailed below.

Breitbart

Court testimony revealed that Kyle was shot six times by a .45-caliber pistol. He was shot in the jaw, side and back. He was found in a grassy area near the platform where shooters fire their weapons. Littlefield was shot seven times with a 9 mm pistol. His wounds were to the head, back and face. Littlefield was standing at the shooting platform.

First thing wrong here is considering Kyle's and Littlefield's extensive training and background how could a shooter use a .45 pistol on Kyle 6 times and then switch to a 9mm pistol and shoot Littlefield who was at shooting platform and not next to Kyle.

Are we to believe that Routh who most likely had only rudimentary basic marine training in pistol use and marksmanship, never served a day in an actual combat situation, was admittedly high on marijuana laced with embalming fluid and drinking was proficient enough to simultaneously shoot Kyle and Littlefield who were armed without some indication of one or the other murdered attempting to retaliate.

No matter how it's done most normally trained shooters need 2 seconds or so to get off six aimed shots from a pistol - 2 seconds that a trained operator would use to retaliate. Have I seen it done faster? yes, but only from very highly trained individuals with no impairments at the time.

From same source article,

Both Kyle and Littlefield were wearing an additional handgun in their waistbands when their bodies were found

I think the testimony opens up the possibility of more than one shooter being present and make's Routh possibly an MK ultra type patsy having come out of psychiatric treatment not that long before the shootings.

Phoenix

a reply to: Phoenix

Sorry if I am missing things here but if they are at a range, they probably have some ear pro in which would possibly delay the reaction of the second person.
Also, when you are at a gun range you hear gun shots and it is normal, again, could play a part in the delayed reaction of the second person.

Walking up behind someone and shooting them doesn't take much training so it would not be that surprising if one man was able to take out two with an ambush style attack.

I dont know, maybe he had a .45 in his dominant hand and a 9 in his other hand???

If it were more than 2 ballistic types then maybe I'd go the multi-shooter thing, but I think they released pics of them from the still capture CCTV cams that showed only 3 people arriving in that group. Maybe Im mistaken?. I havnt seen the movie so I know thats not influenced my recollection??

a reply to: Phoenix

on obvious observation :

littlefeild was at a shooting platform - yes ?

couold he have been wearing ear protection and had his entire concentration focused down range ?? [ speculation ]

again an obvious observation but - peoples reactions to gunshots are tempered by context

[ speculation ] could littlefeild have been unaware that kyle had been murdered - and assumed the shots were just normal range activity ????

just my opinion - but you need more than you have to raise a conspiracy

a reply to: Sremmos80

I could go with your reasoning if it was a public range where weapons are fired frequently and intermittently.

It was reportedly only Kyle, Littlefield and Routh present at the murder site and Littlefield was at platform where long range shooting was done from so I'd think he'd notice out of place firing.

I have worn ear protection at range myself and distinctly hear what's going on around me. Recently switched to noise canceling type and conversation is not only clear - its enhanced. With my civilian range time I am very aware of what others on the line are doing - especially in keeping weapons pointed down range.

In reading Kyle's book it's apparent he was hyper vigilant and paranoid in many ways upon his return from middle east tours, not as much is known about Littlefield but it's hard to believe they'd text as they did on way to range and then just turn their backs on Routh once at the range.

These are not lackadaisical weekend buddies getting together for undisciplined shooting but rather highly trained experts who had range safety and fire discipline drilled into them by extensive military training and experience.

originally posted by: RifRAAF
I dont know, maybe he had a .45 in his dominant hand and a 9 in his other hand???

If it were more than 2 ballistic types then maybe I'd go the multi-shooter thing, but I think they released pics of them from the still capture CCTV cams that showed only 3 people arriving in that group. Maybe Im mistaken?. I havnt seen the movie so I know thats not influenced my recollection??

Not aware of any CCTV recording,

The thought of Routh who smoked marijuana and drank whiskey prior to going to the range being able to shoot one pistol in each hand at same time for two different distance and angled targets is a stretch - not sure I could do that stone cold.

a reply to: Phoenix

So did they pull their fire arms on any and all that walked up behind them?

I am not to familiar with the shooting but what it sounds like is this guys just came up behind them and shot them both from behind.

Was this guy a regular there?

a reply to: Phoenix
There is a point in addiction where you use/drink to become normal. I have PTSD and I am more coherent and functional after consuming what would normally sedate a large adult for days.

Your state is not his state, tho my state is not his state either so really we are just arguing our own subjectivity.

I saw the CCTV stills here on an ATS thread, so somebody will know where they are if their still available. Most likley not if the trial has started, cant influence a jury now can we.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Phoenix

So did they pull their fire arms on any and all that walked up behind them?

I am not to familiar with the shooting but what it sounds like is this guys just came up behind them and shot them both from behind.

Was this guy a regular there?

No Routh was not a regular nor with distance between Kyle and Littlefield did Routh walk up behind them - the distinct issue I have is the differing caliber of weapons used and number of shots used on each individual says there was time involved between murder of Kyle and Littlefield - time that lends an implausibility to Routh acting alone.

Being this is the forum it is I am speculating but am basing it upon reasonable basis of having two weapons used in murders, number of shots at each individual, texts between victims warning of Routh's demeanor, hyper vigilance of Kyle per his book and news accounts, distance between bodies, inebriation of Routh at the time of murders and what appears to be a trial that's limited to finding a defendant insane rather than dealing with anomalies in evidence.

a reply to: Phoenix

Ya I get your point.

It is odd that some one was able to sneak up on them and do what he did.
What was the ranges at which each guy was shot?

a reply to: Phoenix

Honestly ive smelled something fishy about this entire Chris Kyle thing from the beginning. Cant trust anything.

I was under the impression that testimony so far showed that Kyle was shot in the back while standing and then in the head while on the ground. Is that not the case?

And finding multiple calibers of firearms at a gun range doesn't strike me as terribly odd.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Finding multiple caliber cases already shot sure, but a muderer using multiple handguns in differing calibers is far different when shooting two different people at nearly same time.

a reply to: Phoenix

I've taken half a dozen guns to the range on one go. Various handguns, shotguns, and long rifles. That's me. One guy.

Three guys, all of whom are ex military? Still don't think finding two handguns of varying calibers to be weird.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Forgive my ignorance if I am far off base here but wouldn't a 9mm also be a rather easy weapon to manipulate in a non dominate hand?
Especially if the shooter has some hours behind said weapon?

a reply to: Shamrock6

Ive thought it was a hit from the beginning but rarely speak on it, waiting for more to come out. Agree the multiple caliber is not odd for a range... But multiple calibers fast enough to get two guys that dont trust you in the backs? Before knowing about the text i found it hard to believe they turned their backs to this guy while armed. Knowing about the text, being an 11 year Navy vet who knows seals and spent a lot of time with team guys while running my own BUDS packages i find it even harder to believe.

Even with hearing protection you can hear gunshots. Wouldn't it make you turn around and look if your party was the only one there and you heard shots from behind you?
This whole case has a distinct smell... I'm sure we won't hear the shooter's testimony but it certainly would be interesting to hear how he pulled off shooting both of them in the back.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Phoenix

I've taken half a dozen guns to the range on one go. Various handguns, shotguns, and long rifles. That's me. One guy.

Three guys, all of whom are ex military? Still don't think finding two handguns of varying calibers to be weird.

Taking multiple caliber handguns to a range is not the question nor is it an issue rather using two handguns to murder two combat trained individuals is a question that begs an answer.

a reply to: Sremmos80

Not necessarily. What would be easier is having two guns, shooting one and dropping it, then switching to the other. Switching to a loaded weapon is generally faster and easier than reloading an empty one.

@ swimmer: my understanding is Kyle and Littlefield weren't next to each other. Or weren't found next to each other anyway. Littlefield was on the platform, Kyle was near it. Kyle was found near an empty weapon. He may have been in the process of charging mags?

It seems clear that both Kyle and Littlefield were creeped out by Routh. How and why was he able to off them? I dunno. But unless some sort of evidence comes to light that somebody else was there and has so far gone unnoticed and unmentioned, I haven't seen anything so far that screams "man on the grassy knoll"

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Shamrock6

Forgive my ignorance if I am far off base here but wouldn't a 9mm also be a rather easy weapon to manipulate in a non dominate hand?
Especially if the shooter has some hours behind said weapon?

The answer is no, taking into account number of shots - most have difficulty with two hands on one pistol maintaining any kind of shot grouping during rapid fire even when target is under 5 yards - just use NYC police as a good example of supposedly trained shooters firing wildly.