You Are the Sex You Were Born!

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
Unless you manage to function like a woman, period, ability to get pregnant, etc...you have not changed into a woman.

So... women who are born unable to bear children are not "real women"?

Ladies of ATS, do you agree? Are you all able to bear children? Because, if not, WeAreAWAKE here insists you are not really a woman.

And to you, OP... you are allowed to call anybody whatever you like. However, if you call a transwoman a man (or vice versa in Luke's case), it is you who is "lying". The biggest sex organ is the brain. Gender dysphoria isn't an issue with the brain, it's an issue of the body. Since you can't alter the brain to "fix" it, you need to fix the body. Not everybody is born with perfect bodies. People sometimes come out with extra parts, not enough parts, or sometimes the wrong parts. It happens.

I'm not going to hate on you because I don't think you wish anybody harm. It's just a bummer you can't respect people the way they would likely respect you.

I find some of your post a bit silly, but I feel you are being honest and not being rude. And I say this a bit tongue-in-cheek...but if I start walking around saying "I'm a gopher" I would hope someone would do more than just respect me.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: LukeDAP

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
OK...ONE LAST TIME...I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST TRANSGENDER PEOPLE. It is simply annoying to hear someone say something untrue like that.

As a transgender man myself: yes, you obviously have something against us. You may not want to admit it to yourself, but you do.

If you say you don't, than guess what? I am telling you that your opinion is untrue and that you are wrong about yourself. Does that sound familiar?

Thanks for letting me know how you feel, though. I'll do my best to avoid you on ATS.

No...I don't. I have something against people stating an untruth as a fact. If that is you...OK. But it isn't about you being who you are. This could have been a rant about that woman who had multiple surgeries to look like at cat saying..."I'm a cat". Well...no...she isn't.

This illustrates perfectly your level of understanding on gender vs... species? ALL people start out as women and about half of us turn into men. In fact, you could stretch that a bit and claim that all men are automatically transgender in the womb. At no point during your growth are you part cat.

It's a real thing, look it up. It's not just people getting bored with their genitalia. If you ever research what a person undergoes to correct their gender, you would understand that it's not just something done on a whim. It's one of the most badass montage-inducing Chuck Norris thing a person can ever endure (next to child birth, I imagine) and... for what? Just so they can get harassed and be called the wrong pronouns through the rest of their lives? Nope. It's because it's necessary to live.

originally posted by: ccseagull
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

So then, what about the platypus. Is it a duck? The platypus is among nature's most unlikely animals. In fact, the first scientists to examine a specimen believed they were the victims of a hoax. The animal is best described as a hodgepodge of more familiar species: the duck (bill and webbed feet), beaver (tail), and otter (body and fur). Males are also venomous. They have sharp stingers on the heels of their rear feet and can use them to deliver a strong toxic blow to any foe. animals.nationalgeographic.com...

I think that it's easy to say you are what you are born as when one only looks at the outside. Hormones can change that and hormones are running throughout one's entire body including the brain. Our inner mind is where we truly are in terms of what we are.

Its a platypus...if it calls itself a duck it isn't true. Stop trying to make this something it is not. It is really that simple.

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: LukeDAP

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
OK...ONE LAST TIME...I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST TRANSGENDER PEOPLE. It is simply annoying to hear someone say something untrue like that.

As a transgender man myself: yes, you obviously have something against us. You may not want to admit it to yourself, but you do.

If you say you don't, than guess what? I am telling you that your opinion is untrue and that you are wrong about yourself. Does that sound familiar?

Thanks for letting me know how you feel, though. I'll do my best to avoid you on ATS.

No...I don't. I have something against people stating an untruth as a fact. If that is you...OK. But it isn't about you being who you are. This could have been a rant about that woman who had multiple surgeries to look like at cat saying..."I'm a cat". Well...no...she isn't.

This illustrates perfectly your level of understanding on gender vs... species? ALL people start out as women and about half of us turn into men. In fact, you could stretch that a bit and claim that all men are automatically transgender in the womb. At no point during your growth are you part cat.

It's a real thing, look it up. It's not just people getting bored with their genitalia. If you ever research what a person undergoes to correct their gender, you would understand that it's not just something done on a whim. It's one of the most badass montage-inducing Chuck Norris thing a person can ever endure (next to child birth, I imagine) and... for what? Just so they can get harassed and be called the wrong pronouns through the rest of their lives? Nope. It's because it's necessary to live.

You can argue different points all you want. If a female...ovaries, etc. has a sex change to appear as a male...they are still female. And visa versa. I believe I said that exactly. So...unless you are simply trying to branch off this rant, you are off base from my post.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I'm not trying to make this something it isn't. You yourself said if the parts are there then that is what you are.

So now you are denying that same thought based on what I showed as a bizarre example??

Not arguing, just think it's funny that you are saying one thing and then saying another based on one type of physical evidence.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Boomy327
This is a pointless and harmful thread. You don't care? Then don't make a rant about it. All your doing is coming off as mean and close minded. Nobody here is going to agree with you. Just let people believe what they want. It's not like they are going out of their way to lie to you....... Claiming IM A WOMAN is all I ever wanted. Why you gotta take that away and call me a liar?

While I don't see how my purely logical, non-emotional opinion is harmful...I'm sorry you took it that way. For probably the hundredth time...be who you feel you are and be happy with yourself.

Truthfully...
There has been nothing "purely logical" about your opinions.

& you need to educate yourself further on the subject.


Start with the Androgen Receptor Gene... Specifically "Longer Version", which are said to help gender determination.

Work your way towards Genetics... Real Genetics, not Gross Anatomy which you keep referring to as Genetics.

Stop focusing on balls and a penis, the Anatomy does not determine what a Man or Woman is.


Saying it does is the only "untruth" I've seen in this thread!

Technically you are correct.

Discounting those born hermaphrodite.

Chromosomally they are the gender they were born. Physically they are the gender they were born even if they had surgery or hormone treatment.

There is apparently an anomaly of the mind where some think they are another gender than their physical and chromosomal gender.

Gay men used to call themselves ''she'' for at least a hundred years. I guess now certain societies having moved in the direction of transgender acceptance and altering bodies to suit minds, are also for a percentage accepting of people calling themselves a gender other than that which they chromosomally and physically are.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Hey off topic....

"Untruth" and "Untrue" are both real words.

Exactly.

originally posted by: ccseagull
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I'm not trying to make this something it isn't. You yourself said if the parts are there then that is what you are.

So now you are denying that same thought based on what I showed as a bizarre example??

Not arguing, just think it's funny that you are saying one thing and then saying another based on one type of physical evidence.

I believe I said genetics and at least meant all the parts. In simple terms...if you are born 100% woman and then change some parts, etc. to a man...still a woman.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Boomy327
This is a pointless and harmful thread. You don't care? Then don't make a rant about it. All your doing is coming off as mean and close minded. Nobody here is going to agree with you. Just let people believe what they want. It's not like they are going out of their way to lie to you....... Claiming IM A WOMAN is all I ever wanted. Why you gotta take that away and call me a liar?

While I don't see how my purely logical, non-emotional opinion is harmful...I'm sorry you took it that way. For probably the hundredth time...be who you feel you are and be happy with yourself.

Truthfully...
There has been nothing "purely logical" about your opinions.

& you need to educate yourself further on the subject.


Start with the Androgen Receptor Gene... Specifically "Longer Version", which are said to help gender determination.

Work your way towards Genetics... Real Genetics, not Gross Anatomy which you keep referring to as Genetics.

Stop focusing on balls and a penis, the Anatomy does not determine what a Man or Woman is.


Saying it does is the only "untruth" I've seen in this thread!

If a person is born male, they will forever be male. It is that simple...physically. Continue your push to be a smart-ass...no problem. But that is and always was my point.

Well...Walking Dead time. Bye.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: ccseagull
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I'm not trying to make this something it isn't. You yourself said if the parts are there then that is what you are.

So now you are denying that same thought based on what I showed as a bizarre example??

Not arguing, just think it's funny that you are saying one thing and then saying another based on one type of physical evidence.

I believe I said genetics and at least meant all the parts. In simple terms...if you are born 100% woman and then change some parts, etc. to a man...still a woman.

A transgender person never started out "100%" of any gender. You speak as if the brain doesn't count as part of a whole person.

CharlieSpears has given you quite a few leads on where to start researching if you are truly interested.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: ccseagull
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I'm not trying to make this something it isn't. You yourself said if the parts are there then that is what you are.

So now you are denying that same thought based on what I showed as a bizarre example??

Not arguing, just think it's funny that you are saying one thing and then saying another based on one type of physical evidence.

I believe I said genetics and at least meant all the parts. In simple terms...if you are born 100% woman and then change some parts, etc. to a man...still a woman.

Yep you've said Genetics numerous times and that's why your point is fallacious!!!


The genetics of a transgender "male to female" are that of a Woman...
As was the rest of their DNA & Brain Wiring since a foetus...

The only thing that isn't "female" is the sexual organs...


You're wrong...
Your rant is ill conceived & borderline abusive...


& I'm done.

I've never enjoyed talking to a brick wall.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Defined sex isn't always correct though. You are being willfully ignorant here. There's medical proof that declared gender is sometimes incorrect. The genitals don't always match the chromosomes.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I'm far from a smart arse...

But I also know when I'm right!

& I know I'm right because I used to think like you...
That meat and two veg means it's a man...

But after much research, I was wrong...

So yes I know what your point is, it used to be mine... & it's delusive!

The premise here is what you are born with. Trouble with that is, how far down the line is, "What you are born with" Does anyone know? The Dr Strangeloves of this world are already entrenched with Genetic engineering big time. You could 'almost' say, cutting this bit or that bit off is akin to still driving a Model T Ford...like old hat. The UK Government just now, has agreed to Human germ-line manipulation, not because they are clever, but because WE must presume, by definition that they are well informed...Does anyone believe that?? and once done, can't be undone except by a deliberate extinction..does anyone believe that will not be the case in some scenario? and BTW don't count the numbers.
We already know that natural births go astray, also big time for some, that includes my offspring..nothing to do with gender per se, nothing to do with me either, but it was an unknown.
There are medical conditions known as true Hermaphrodite/or Intersex to take away old stigma. Most of the rest of medical knowledge on that subject is about sexual balance, and is a bit obscure and not a definitive by any means.
All in all, to say you are the sex you were born with, is more like a comfort zone, rather than reality.

The miracle of modern medicine has made it possible to change some parts, kind of, in an attempt to pretend you can change your sex. And for all the people who want to suffer the delusion that they are a "Man trapped in a woman's body" or vice versa, medicine has come to your rescue and allowed you to believe your delusions. So now we have the "transgender" community. But what do we really have?

Do you think surgery to cut a male member in two, remove the testicles, and stuff the whole thing into the groin cavity with a manufactured hole makes a person a woman? Do you think hormones that can cause breasts to form on males makes a person a woman? Sorry, dude, but that ain't a real womb in there. It's fake. And every single cell in your body has an X chromosome. I'm sorry, but only a person fond of knot holes could dig it.

And for the ladies who want to be men, do you seriously think sewing up your vagina and sticking a piece of cartilage on the end makes you a man? And hormones to make your voice deeper and grow a beard help that, too? Sorry, honey, but you are NEVER going to have an Adam's apple. You don't have any reproductive capability whatsoever, and the fact is every single cell in your body has two X chromosomes. A plain old rubber dildo could perform better than you will ever be able to.

It's all fake and indulgence made possible by modern medicine. But somehow we've created this idea that not only is it possible to change your sex, you also have the RIGHT to do so and not only that, it's discriminatory not to allow it. Somehow we have conflated very real issues of discrimination, like your race, over which you have no control, or your cultural background, which includes religion, over which you, practically speaking, have little control, with things you can control completely. In many societies of the past, such things were not allowed because if they were, the survival of the society would be at stake. Since we have 7 billion people today, you really can't make that case, but don't kid yourself that this is somehow a biological imperative.

So you have the preposterous situations of men using the women's restrooms in our schools because they "identify with that gender" or men, who are now women, participating in athletics with the distinct advantage of that Xy chromosome. If you don't think there is an advantage because, you know, everyone is equal and all, watch a men's tennis match, then watch women's. Yes, yes, I know all about Bobby Riggs. Watch the speed of the ball. Then tell me with a straight face everybody is equal.

This whole issue is simply pandering to rampant me-first indulgence and is as representative of the decay of culture as any other thing you can imagine. And it's also bat-poop crazy.

originally posted by: schuyler
The miracle of modern medicine has made it possible to change some parts, kind of, in an attempt to pretend you can change your sex. And for all the people who want to suffer the delusion that they are a "Man trapped in a woman's body" or vice versa, medicine has come to your rescue and allowed you to believe your delusions. So now we have the "transgender" community. But what do we really have?

There has always been a transgender community. Many cultures have made room for them throughout history. The most well-known examples are the "two-spirit" people in American history. The Norse had theirs and so did many other people. Modern medicine is not what makes a person "transgender". I don't think you understand what it is.

originally posted by: schuyler
Do you think surgery to cut a male member in two, remove the testicles, and stuff the whole thing into the groin cavity with a manufactured hole makes a person a woman? Do you think hormones that can cause breasts to form on males makes a person a woman? Sorry, dude, but that ain't a real womb in there. It's fake. And every single cell in your body has an X chromosome. I'm sorry, but only a person fond of knot holes could dig it.

Or somebody who's not an asshole.

originally posted by: schuyler
And for the ladies who want to be men, do you seriously think sewing up your vagina and sticking a piece of cartilage on the end makes you a man? And hormones to make your voice deeper and grow a beard help that, too? Sorry, honey, but you are NEVER going to have an Adam's apple. You don't have any reproductive capability whatsoever, and the fact is every single cell in your body has two X chromosomes. A plain old rubber dildo could perform better than you will ever be able to.

"A plain old rubber dildo" can perform better than you, as well. Ask any woman who prefers women. If you think penetration is the most important apex of sexuality, you need to rethink things a bit.

originally posted by: schuyler
It's all fake and indulgence made possible by modern medicine. But somehow we've created this idea that not only is it possible to change your sex, you also have the RIGHT to do so and not only that, it's discriminatory not to allow it. Somehow we have conflated very real issues of discrimination, like your race, over which you have no control, or your cultural background, which includes religion, over which you, practically speaking, have little control, with things you can control completely. In many societies of the past, such things were not allowed because if they were, the survival of the society would be at stake. Since we have 7 billion people today, you really can't make that case, but don't kid yourself that this is somehow a biological imperative.

Suicide rate is nearly 50% for those with gender dysphoria. It is a "biological imperative" for people who suffer from it. Do you get dizzy when you look at your own genitalia every morning? Do you only dream as the opposite gender? Do you constantly want to harm yourself and your genitalia every time you think about it?

I don't know what it's like to be in the right body nor do many people who suffer from this. YOU are the one born with the privilege of being born whole. It's not a "preference". It's a matter of correcting what is essentially a birth defect (no offense to anybody who may not want to think of it that way).

originally posted by: schuyler
So you have the preposterous situations of men using the women's restrooms in our schools because they "identify with that gender" or men, who are now women, participating in athletics with the distinct advantage of that Xy chromosome. If you don't think there is an advantage because, you know, everyone is equal and all, watch a men's tennis match, then watch women's. Yes, yes, I know all about Bobby Riggs. Watch the speed of the ball. Then tell me with a straight face everybody is equal.

If you think somebody is willing to flip their junk inside out to get an edge in sports or use a different bathroom, you are the delusional one.

originally posted by: schuyler
This whole issue is simply pandering to rampant me-first indulgence and is as representative of the decay of culture as any other thing you can imagine. And it's also bat-poop crazy.

"Me first"? You are already first. You've already won with your gender. Many of us are just begging for a "me second".

a reply to: schuyler

So medical science is wrong? A person can't have female chromosomes and male bits or vice versa? Just easier to come spew bile than learn anything or *gasp* empathize. Yeah people want to go through all that just to be a special snowflake.

People like you are the ones that are sick imo.

Though you may physically be a certain way. Psychologically they may not be. It may be upbringing. May be just self identity and determination of the individual. Though i do not understand one wanting or making the change. I do know some people actually think for themselves and don't follow doctrine. They don't feel like they fit in otherwise. I am nothing like my family or friends. I never fit in. Not because of sexuality. But because i am far to logical for them. I always asked questions. Never just listened. I wanted to understand why and how things worked. Because i said so was never an acceptable answer. I was actually given a derogatory nickname by family for asking to many questions as a child. Needless to say, that only alienated me. Then made me not want to associate with them at all. Loose respect and not care about their opinion. Long before i was even a teen. These people have their reasons, and are entitled to them. I say to each tier own as long as it does not hurt others in some way.