Prescription pets, it's getting out of hand now.

a reply to: bbracken677

Oh it's not just housing. The fed does that with all kinds of regs.

a reply to: ketsuko

I know, right?

I am semi retired and managing an apartment community is just my semi retired job.

LOL unfortunately I have had way too much contact with the Feds in many capacities...they are as screwed up as Hogan's goat lol

No...they are worse than that.

a reply to: bbracken677

Thanks mate I didn't know that & I am surprised the animal does
not have to be trained...that doesn't eve make sense to me since
they have to perform tasks & those usually require training.

I haven't lived in an apt since 1992. I was not disabled at that time.
The new place is an Old refurbished house with 4 units. I couldn't
even imagine a large complex as that would be too much for me.

Thank you for discussion everyone. This is still pretty new to me
in the past 2 yrs.

Cheers
Ektar

a reply to: bbracken677

In regards to the "service" dogs & I am not sue about other animals,
but because of this new "everyone now getting animals" as a prescription...
they are now going to allow you to question people like me...what service does
my animal do, can you show me what they do for you, & maybe ask what
their disability is?
Let me see if I can find what my friend sent, as I don't want to
feed you wrong info.

Cheers
Ektar

Which makes one wonder about these so called "doctors" that are doing the prescribing to these kids..

originally posted by: baddmove
I am writing this because lately it seems that too many young people are getting so called prescription pets to get around the "No Pet" clause in many leases. I work for a property management company and we have a strict "no pet" policy in our apartments. Lately we are getting tenants coming in with a doctors notice that Fluffy or Duke has a prescription to be a service animal. Fluffy is a cat and duke is a Pug. One other tenant has a bird for cripes sake!... I guess the youth of today just cannot live without that pet from home. (I work in a college town and ALL of our tenants are college students -WSU) Since I am head of maintenance, I get a chance to go in most of our apartments for service calls so I actually see these pets and the people who "need" them. Not a damn thing wrong with these kids I can see. It would seem that it is becoming more popular too..see here..LINK
A blurb from that link..

Under the current statute, the language of which is extraordinarily broad, almost any person can allege that they are “handicapped,” as it covers any condition that affects a major life function (eating, sleeping, moving about, conducting daily activities). That definition encompasses diseases like depression, insomnia, anxiety, obesity–the list is extensive. And for the past decade or so doctors have been “prescribing” pets to sufferers of these diseases, claiming that they are service animals and that the association must therefore allow the pet as an accommodation (or else risk violating the FHAA).

So now that we have these "P-Pets, we can't charge a pet deposit and we have to let them have whatever Pet the doctor says they can have..We can charge for damage at the end of a rental year but, sometimes it's pretty damn bad.. I'll leave you with this paragraph...

“Dear Sir/Madame, Due to the fact that he is suffering from situational depression, it is imperative that John Doe be able to continue to live with his dog, Fido, who has been his constant companion over the past ten years.
Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact me by email or telephone. Best regards, Dr. So-and-So.”

Now, readers who are practiced board members are probably rolling their eyes, because this is exactly the type of cursory, simplistic pet prescription that any family doctor can write for any person, making vague allegations of handicap. What exactly is “situational depression?”
Does it affect a major life function? Why does this man need a service animal? Can we really compare a person like this to a visually-impaired person who uses a guide dog? Is it fair to lump them into the same category?
How can a board respond to this type of request? All good questions. The first step our board took was to request more information.
When a disease is not visibly obvious, the board is allowed to request medical records sufficient to demonstrate that the disease exists, and that it does, in fact, impair a basic life function.
Additionally, the board may request detailed information on the doctor’s qualifications to make the diagnosis, and proof that the doctor is in fact the treating physician.
So this was our second step–ask our lawyer to contact Dr. So-and-So and ask him to provide additional information. We then received the following response.

“Dear Mr. Lawyer, In response to your letter, Mr. Doe is suffering from a depressive disorder.
Part of the symptom complex of the depressive disorder is insomnia: Mr. Doe has difficulty falling and staying asleep without his dog. When he is unable to get a good night’s rest, his cognitive functioning (directing attention, concentrating, and decision-making) also becomes impaired. His diagnosis is based on criteria from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th Edition, published by the American Psychiatric Association. As a duly-licensed psychotherapist in Florida, my scope of practice includes diagnosis and treatment of mental, emotional, and cognitive disorders. Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact me by email or telephone. Best Regards, Dr. So-and-So”

As someone who has very severe PTSD, you'd be amazed at what my dog does for me. Just because my disability isn't visible, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Or would you rather I stay awake 24 hours a day, lay down with a chef's knife under my pillow, the tv going at full blast, all the lights on, going through the house to inspect for intruders for every little sound, check behind every door 6 times a night, check every door lock, 6 times a night, check every window lock 6 times a night. My dog allows me to sleep without having to do that routine, without having to have a weapon under my pillow. I no longer wake screaming at night that my rapist is in my room once again. If I have a nightmare and I wake crying, my dog licks my face and wakes me gently, comforting me. She barks when anyone nears my door, making me feel safe that no one will ever try and break in, and if they do, I have advance warning. And she's not even registered yet! She just picked up the cues from me and learned on her own. My therapist's idea to get her registered so if I ever need her to go with me somewhere.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do, and I'm sorry you feel messed over by previous tenants, but not all are like that.

Read the whole thread please..

thanks...

Well I couldn't find the info on the new law that my Psychologist
friend sent me. I just sent a message to see if she still had
the article available. So if I get it I will post for you.

Cheers
Ektar

originally posted by: baddmove

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
a reply to: baddmove

Get over it. Unless you're a doctor you're not qualified to decide if someone needs a companion animal or pet. There are a lot of issues at hand, from PTSD to many many other conditions. If the DOCTOR writes the letter, Your job is to do YOUR job, not his.

Seems like we have doctors just writing these prescriptions for no reason at all.
I can assure you that the biggest P-Pet a tenant has as of today weighs no more than 5 pounds..What kind of service animal is that? Most of these kids are gone all day in class while the pet is at home, I know, I see them when I go in to fix things, and I go in to fix things A lot...

My dog is 7 1/2 pounds. She's part Chihuahua, Jack Russell, and mini-Pinscher. She'll be starting training here shortly as a PTSD Emotional Support Therapy Pet.

originally posted by: Anyafaj

originally posted by: baddmove

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
a reply to: baddmove

Get over it. Unless you're a doctor you're not qualified to decide if someone needs a companion animal or pet. There are a lot of issues at hand, from PTSD to many many other conditions. If the DOCTOR writes the letter, Your job is to do YOUR job, not his.

Seems like we have doctors just writing these prescriptions for no reason at all.
I can assure you that the biggest P-Pet a tenant has as of today weighs no more than 5 pounds..What kind of service animal is that? Most of these kids are gone all day in class while the pet is at home, I know, I see them when I go in to fix things, and I go in to fix things A lot...

My dog is 7 1/2 pounds. She's part Chihuahua, Jack Russell, and mini-Pinscher. She'll be starting training here shortly as a PTSD Emotional Support Therapy Pet.

That is wonderful news...

This thread is more about the abuse of a law by college kids who are figuring a way to break a rule to get their way. In a nutshell.

originally posted by: baddmove
Read the whole thread please..

thanks...

I have. As I said, not all disabled take advantage of landlords. (And it sounds like these kids are doing just that, taking advantage, which is a shame because it's always one bad apple who spoils it for the rest of the bunch.) I am sorry you were taken advantage of.

originally posted by: baddmove

originally posted by: Anyafaj

originally posted by: baddmove

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
a reply to: baddmove

Get over it. Unless you're a doctor you're not qualified to decide if someone needs a companion animal or pet. There are a lot of issues at hand, from PTSD to many many other conditions. If the DOCTOR writes the letter, Your job is to do YOUR job, not his.

Seems like we have doctors just writing these prescriptions for no reason at all.
I can assure you that the biggest P-Pet a tenant has as of today weighs no more than 5 pounds..What kind of service animal is that? Most of these kids are gone all day in class while the pet is at home, I know, I see them when I go in to fix things, and I go in to fix things A lot...

My dog is 7 1/2 pounds. She's part Chihuahua, Jack Russell, and mini-Pinscher. She'll be starting training here shortly as a PTSD Emotional Support Therapy Pet.

That is wonderful news...

This thread is more about the abuse of a law by college kids who are figuring a way to break a rule to get their way. In a nutshell.

Sadly, no matter where you go, you will always find those kind of people in life who are always willing to take advantage, unfortunately, they are using our disability laws to take advantage of you. I'm truly sorry, because there ARE people like me and others in the thread who do need those laws, not these idiot kids.

a reply to: baddmove

I wonder if you might be helped by having a pet -- perhaps a reptile of some sort.

I've been a full-time real estate agent for 22 years, the general manager of a real estate and property management brokerage for 18, and a broker for three years. My main office is located at a gated resort community and we also manage 48 timeshare vacation homes located within, as well as various condo homeowners associations of various sizes.

I have seen bad landlords and bad tenants in that time. The ratio probably balances out, with perhaps a bit of a tilt to bad landlords. Bad landlords here are the ones who don't keep their property in the best working order, will not make timely or correct repairs, and will insist on retention of the security deposit if they can find any possible rationale. These are the folks who don't believe in "the cost of doing business" and feel like they should have no risk or loss in renting their property. I usually advise these folks to get out of the rental business, as it's just not for them.

On the other hand, I have been a good steward for my owners, and I have been in small claims and State court many times over the years, often, where possible, dealing with the case myself and saving the owner thousands in legal fees.

I think (or at least, I hope) that none here would have a philosophical problem with seeing eye dogs as service animals. Right? If you've ever seen the way an animal can enhance the life of a blind person, I don't see how you could have. Well, here's the thing, you don't have any problem with that, but you have an issue with someone who needs an animal to help with their mobility, say, or in the case of some mental illnesses, merely a comforting presence that the individual might not otherwise have.

The Fair Housing Laws cover genuine Disabilities. A note from a doctor is not always sufficient to establish a Disability.

HUD Statement

Not EVERYONE who has a service animal is a cheat, and not every PHYSICIAN who prescribes such treatment is a shyster.

It's very easy to fall into the "all or nothing" category of extremism.

Laws in Georgia are not that different from other states, and if anything they favor the landlord in general. Also, of note, I generally WORK FOR landlords, so if anything, my own livelihood depends on a bias toward the landlords concerns. And believe me, when a tenant is bad, you cannot really imagine what that means until you see (or smell) the results.

There must be a genuine DISABILITY for the Fair Housing/ADA laws to be invoked.

I think sometimes folks who have issues with these requirements have general issues with the Federal government at large, and these issues in turn get applied somewhat injudiciously. We are after all human.

Also, reasonable accommodation does not mean that a landlord's property can be destroyed or damaged with impunity. Damaged property is damaged property. It's generally a matter for small claims court or magistrate court. At least, that's the law in Georgia.

As to background checks, why should we be allowed to deny housing or services to someone who has served their time and paid the price for their crimes? We're not fortune-tellers; we don't and can't know what someone is going to do in the future.

These types of laws are in place to protect people from just that kind of "all-knowing" point of view, which sometimes is a subtle mask for discrimination.

a reply to: Gryphon66

You really should read the whole thread. It's not that long. It's not about people with disabilities and their service animals at all.

a reply to: bbracken677

I have read the whole thread, Bracken, thanks for your suggestion. I noticed that you gave an in-depth commentary on one-side of the issue, and I merely gave the other side as well as a somewhat more moderate point of view.

The thread is actually about folks deciding they can determine when and where someone is disabled and the rub is that the Federal government prevents them from doing so with impunity.

Such folks should have the courage of their convictions; if you don't believe someone is disabled, deny the animal.

I'm sure the truth will come out in the HUD investigation. Best.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
I've been a full-time real estate agent for 22 years, the general manager of a real estate and property management brokerage for 18, and a broker for three years. My main office is located at a gated resort community and we also manage 48 timeshare vacation homes located within, as well as various condo homeowners associations of various sizes.

I have seen bad landlords and bad tenants in that time. The ratio probably balances out, with perhaps a bit of a tilt to bad landlords. Bad landlords here are the ones who don't keep their property in the best working order, will not make timely or correct repairs, and will insist on retention of the security deposit if they can find any possible rationale. These are the folks who don't believe in "the cost of doing business" and feel like they should have no risk or loss in renting their property. I usually advise these folks to get out of the rental business, as it's just not for them.

On the other hand, I have been a good steward for my owners, and I have been in small claims and State court many times over the years, often, where possible, dealing with the case myself and saving the owner thousands in legal fees.

I think (or at least, I hope) that none here would have a philosophical problem with seeing eye dogs as service animals. Right? If you've ever seen the way an animal can enhance the life of a blind person, I don't see how you could have. Well, here's the thing, you don't have any problem with that, but you have an issue with someone who needs an animal to help with their mobility, say, or in the case of some mental illnesses, merely a comforting presence that the individual might not otherwise have.

The Fair Housing Laws cover genuine Disabilities. A note from a doctor is not always sufficient to establish a Disability.

HUD Statement

Not EVERYONE who has a service animal is a cheat, and not every PHYSICIAN who prescribes such treatment is a shyster.

It's very easy to fall into the "all or nothing" category of extremism.

Laws in Georgia are not that different from other states, and if anything they favor the landlord in general. Also, of note, I generally WORK FOR landlords, so if anything, my own livelihood depends on a bias toward the landlords concerns. And believe me, when a tenant is bad, you cannot really imagine what that means until you see (or smell) the results.

There must be a genuine DISABILITY for the Fair Housing/ADA laws to be invoked.

I think sometimes folks who have issues with these requirements have general issues with the Federal government at large, and these issues in turn get applied somewhat injudiciously. We are after all human.

Also, reasonable accommodation does not mean that a landlord's property can be destroyed or damaged with impunity. Damaged property is damaged property. It's generally a matter for small claims court or magistrate court. At least, that's the law in Georgia.

As to background checks, why should we be allowed to deny housing or services to someone who has served their time and paid the price for their crimes? We're not fortune-tellers; we don't and can't know what someone is going to do in the future.

These types of laws are in place to protect people from just that kind of "all-knowing" point of view, which sometimes is a subtle mask for discrimination.

I can attest to crappy landlords. I just got evicted by one because he refused to fix a shower that had been broken for 4 months. There were holes in the walls that mice had kept getting through and chewing my food and clothes. For four months I went without a shower. After four months of me begging him to fix it, his response was to give me an eviction notice Thanksgiving Day. Because most landlords were on vacation for the holidays, I couldn't get a hold of anyone. I had to get county assistance to find housing. I found a place 2 days before I was to be kicked out! I was quite literally two days away from living in my car. Because of my PTSD, I can't live in a shelter. As you said, there are crappy tenants, and crappy landlords.

originally posted by: bbracken677
All I can say is: The note has to come from a Licensed Mental Health Physician... in other words a Psychologist or a Psychiatrist. The family doctor is not acceptable.

I manage an apt complex and we have one of those. It's a puppy.. a Lab puppy. It's size will violate our size limit.

I'm not so sure about Texas, but this has been challenged in court already in a few states. Basically the plaintiff was found to only have had access to a licensed Physician Assistant, because access to a Primary Care Provider with higher credentials was not accessible for some reason, the PA's word was as good as an MD, due to how "access to healthcare" was defined. I can't find the case, but I wouldn't take a hard line on this issue, there is bound to be a student with deep "mommy/daddy pockets" willing to take it to court. I'd say "licensed Primary Care Provider" is the safer stance to take, despite the apparent abuse of the rule.

As for the age and size of the dog, in question, well, I can explain how and why someone would have a puppy, yet still meet the requirements for it to be designated as a service animal and also have a real, but not visible, need.

Food Allergies (peanut allergies and Celiac disease specifically)

Don't forget its been estimated that 1 in 13 children has this disease today, which few people got even two decades ago. Honestly the need for a food allergy dog is more real today than it ever has been, so I personally wouldn't want to be the blowhard trying to prove falsehoods. This is an instance where statistics are simply not going to work in your favor.

The VA also has already set a certification standard for where the service dogs can be purchased or received from. In cases like this, if the dog came from certified trainer/breeder, you'd likely have an uphill battle in court. I'll try to briefly summarize a service dog from the Food Allergy perspective.

The dogs are mostly trained to do one thing, indicate allergens in the environment. That includes in food, on furniture, in the air etc. I don't want to get into a debate about whether the dog can actually do this or not, its not debatable position. A properly trained detection dog can do all of the above and meet the standards for evidence in court. That shipped has sailed, you'd never win that in court, especially if there is a training log book showing what the dog has been doing, to keep sharp on the detection of allergens or some other service dog function.

Also these dogs do not always go through a rigorous obedience training regimen, like guide dogs for example, because their primary function is very different. Some people simply can't afford to buy a fully trained service dog that would have both high level obedience training AND adequate scent detection skills. Why? Because there is about 6 months difference in the training time. Service dog training is big business (like $200 an hour big business), so you can see how and extra 6 months used to train a dog on a secondary skill set, can keep the fully trained dogs out of financial reach for many. So in the end, some people opt to buy the service dogs that are trained on a shorter timeline and ONLY on the PRIMARY task because its a LOT cheaper to do so.

In fact not to long ago, I ran into a lady that could not qualify to get a free service dog through Guide Dogs of America because her blindness was not "severe enough", so she had to buy one through a private sector "certified" provider. The dog she got didn't have half of the skills that a fully trained Guide Dogs of America dog, BUT it could safely get her across the street, in and out of her house and out of the way of obvious hazards. For example, a fully trained guide dog can actually figure out how to keep someone from bumping into obstructions at head height, I don't think her dog was skilled enough to do that , BUT her dog also cost about 1/3 of what a fully trained one would have costs.

The letter does not have to come from "a licensed Mental Health physician". A letter from any physician suffices and physician covers a wide territory. A primary care physician or nurse practitioner would qualify. The animal simply has to provide a service related to the disability (whether the disability is mental or physical is immaterial).

Archaic rules & protocols in a system of willing debt slavery & forced housing aka apartment buildings are the bane of existence.

I say good for these college kids & # your bureaucracy!

I used to live in Pullman for a whopping 6 months; 17• on Halloween, snowing in November. The people there definitely need animal companionship to not go insane.