Jesus on the cross is a graven image and idolatry

a reply to: FlyersFan



Yeah cause we all have pictures of family members hung up showing there brutal torture and execution....

Fact is in all the instances you pointed god gave specific instruction.

He has not however given any instruction to make a idol out of jesuses execution.
Especialy not on a cross as it was unlikely even that a cross was used. Likely it was a stake or a T.

God certainly hasnt givven instruction for the formation of a rich clergy overclass who adorn themselfs in gold, silks and funny hats.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

all the Christians I know will tell you Adam and eve were in the image of God, we carry Adam's fallen version of that image. So around my area thats not what pops into peoples head when they hear the image of God.

Interesting. So - the Christians you know believe that "Adam and Eve" actually existed? And the 'fallen' thing - let me guess - has to do with Eve tempting him with an apple given to her by a talking Serpent. Right?

So - what DOES pop into 'people's' heads when they hear 'the image of God' ----
that they are UNWORTHY SINNERS WHO CAN NEVER MEASURE UP? And that they're ever-so-lucky that 'Jesus' showed up and made it all better?

Just wondering.

Interesting. What is your 'area' where all these Christians think that?

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
The title of this thread is only my opinion, everything else I propose is also only my opinion, so please try not to get offended, my opinion is no greater than yours.

God tells us not to make any graven images of him, graven literally means "of the nature of the grave", meaning death. God is saying do not make an image of death in place of his true image, which is what we are made in.

Then God is a hypocrite, because he made the human in his own image knowing man was a material being and would eventually die; for many the individual is remembered by the tradition of embalming to preserve that body and burying it (in a grave).

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Jesus is called the image of God. What do Christians think of when they think of the image of God? Jesus hanging on the cross dying for their sins. This is an image of death and sacrifice, something Jesus said he had no desire for.

I think that's a Catholic thing, Protestant churches generally just have a cross because Jesus isn't still hanging on that tree, He is risen.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I'm not changing his words, only drawing out their meaning

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

And You said " You are the truth, the way, and the LIFE. You are God's image, that of light. "

Compare and contrast. Logically these two sentences are contradictions. You changed his words. Then you jump to an entirely different passage.

We are the one loaf of bread, the bread of life, a.k.a. Jesus. We all share the one loaf and we are the loaf.

No it doesn't say we are all one loaf, Jesus is the only bread of life. It says we all partake in that one loaf(Christ), and through Christ the Church is one Body. Christ is the Head. You do not seem to acknowledge that he is separate from you in anyway.

Where in the bible does it differentiate between the image of the invisible God and the image we are made in? If our image is broken then wouldn't that also mean God's Is too since it is his image that we're made in? Where does it differentiate between the two?

I have already given you where it is differentiated:
Genesis 5
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day when God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man in the day when they were created.

3 When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Interesting. So - the Christians you know believe that "Adam and Eve" actually existed? And the 'fallen' thing - let me guess - has to do with Eve tempting him with an apple given to her by a talking Serpent. Right?

Um nothing to do with Eve tempting him. Adam wasn't deceived according to the bible. Eve was tricked, Adam knew what he was doing. Also Genesis 3:6 as understood in the hebrew will show you that adam was there with eve during here conversation with the serpent.

So - what DOES pop into 'people's' heads when they hear 'the image of God' ---- that they are UNWORTHY SINNERS WHO CAN NEVER MEASURE UP? And that they're ever-so-lucky that 'Jesus' showed up and made it all better?

Depends. if your talking about the visible image of the invisible God which is Christ, or the likeness of God that humans have a broken reflection of. But do the Christians I know think we are all unworthy sinners who will never measure up yes. Are we lucky Jesus gave us a chance to reconcile with a perfectly Just God, yes...

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Sad.

What region again, did you say? Or maybe you didn't. Just want to add it to my knowledge of demography/geography.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I do not see him as separate from me because of the words HE spoke. He put us on equal grounds with himself, he did not see himself as "superior" to anyone, it is the church that teaches that nonsense.

Stop doubting yourself.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Jesus is called the image of God. What do Christians think of when they think of the image of God? Jesus hanging on the cross dying for their sins. This is an image of death and sacrifice, something Jesus said he had no desire for.

I think that's a Catholic thing, Protestant churches generally just have a cross because Jesus isn't still hanging on that tree, He is risen.

Catholics wear a crucifix because (superstitiously) they feel they are protected (god/jesus/same entity). Much like a protestant would wear a St. CHRIST-IF-OR medal. I imagine the Hindu's and Buddhists burn the corpses as they already know the soul rises to another higher kingdom after physical death.

On the Image of God debate, I would direct you all to Dr.Michael Heiser. He has the right of it.

Don't let the "UFOReligions" thing fool you, he is in the ancient aliens debunking line of work as well.
www.michaelsheiser.com...

originally posted by: Punisher75
On the Image of God debate, I would direct you all to Dr.Michael Heiser. He has the right of it.

Don't let the "UFOReligions" thing fool you, he is in the ancient aliens debunking line of work as well.
www.michaelsheiser.com...

He debunks organized religion of ancient alien derivation; (which ones, Egyptian, Maya, Assyrian, Akkadian or Sumerian) how does he explain this; so in the process debunks the creation of civilizations/ history of mankind. What does he have to say about the AUO existing? I think Scientology was too easy a target IMO.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

No graven image OR ANY LIKENESS, OF ANYTHING, that is in
Heaven or under the earth or in the sea. So if one has a
picture of Christ hanging on ones wall? That is not in
accordance to Gods commandment. And that's a bad on
that one person. I can see many reasons why God would
command such a thing.

But the infantile, immature nature of man at his disgusting
worst, can't be that hard for God to contemplate.



IMO, humankind lacks guidance.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: Punisher75
On the Image of God debate, I would direct you all to Dr.Michael Heiser. He has the right of it.

Don't let the "UFOReligions" thing fool you, he is in the ancient aliens debunking line of work as well.
www.michaelsheiser.com...

He debunks organized religion of ancient alien derivation; (which ones, Egyptian, Maya) how does he prove this; so in the process debunks the creation of mankind. What does he have to say about the AUO existing? I think Scientology was an easy target.

So your understanding of Egyptian and Mayan religions is that they thought aliens (Not deities) from another planet created mankind?
I am not sure I understand the wording in your post.

originally posted by: Punisher75
originally posted by: veteranhumanbeing

Punisher75: So your understanding of Egyptian and Mayan religions is that they thought aliens (Not deities) from another planet created mankind? I am not sure I understand the wording in your post.

They were not religious dogmatists, they as well as the Sumerian et al. were fully described planted civilizations. Is a higher being they recognized as their creator any different than a modern day percieved "god form" (whatever it is). Not sure what you want to know.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Okay I think I understand what you are trying to say.
If I do understand correctly I would love to see where you get that understanding from as it concerns these people because from what I have seen the idea that is perpetuated by the Ancient Aliens folk has been debunked three ways from Sunday using the actual texts in their actual languages of the mythologies of the people in question.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I do not see him as separate from me because of the words HE spoke. He put us on equal grounds with himself, he did not see himself as "superior" to anyone, it is the church that teaches that nonsense. Stop doubting yourself.

Were you created or are you the creator of all things?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Both.

Second line.

ETA: To elaborate, I was born and thus created, but I also create the world around me through observation. How do I see the world? By an image created in my mind. My brain creates what I see and puts it in the form of an image. The double-slit experiment pretty much proves we create the world through the act of observation. When there is no observer things aren't what they should be. Just by simply looking at my computer screen right now, my brain is creating it. Just by tapping these keys, my brain is creating the sensation of a solid object.

Without an observer (you) nothing is created that has been created. That's a reference to a certain passage in the bible by the way.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

The word you are looking for is "humble - marked by meekness or modesty in behavior, attitude or spirit" not "guilt."

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Law of noncontradiction used in your line of thinking?