Isil is a frightening example that humankind hasn’t evolved very much

a reply to: infinityorder

First time for everything bro.

It has to start somewhere sometime or know what man.

This world we live in is going to self destruct

And I mean it

I'm not talking about prophesies and old books of the bible but clear sighted knowledge

a reply to: Willtell

No, it starts with people who are out to gain something in this world, be it power and position, or money and status.
They might be evil in your opinion, in their opinion you are evil, they are certainly not incompetent and ignorant, they know precisely how to play the mass and gain support in order to get what they want.

Be it political, religious or economic, there is always someone who says "follow me, i know".
They derive their power from those who bow for them, so if one says humans are sheeps, yes, quite right.

The right sentence therefore is, they become leaders because humanity hands them the position and support which turns them into a powerful person.

Year after year, century after century it is the same repeat all over again because humanity seems unable to get out of this cycle.

Than the question, what is IS or ISIL?
One can say IS is the caliphate Islamic State, but in reality the extremist ideology is not restricted to the borders of the caliphate, it is between the ears of many all over the world under different names such as al nusra, alqaida, hamas, hezbollah, muslim brotherhood, taliban, isis, boko haram, and many more less known fruits from the islamic tree.

If one wants to fight it, one should go to the root, the tree itself, not its fruit.
But i do not see this happening any time soon.

Don't be ashamed of being a human being, be human, be the change you want to see, be a healthy cell, the world benefits more from you as a healthy human being which lights the world a bit.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: infinityorder

First time for everything bro.

It has to start somewhere sometime or know what man.

This world we live in is going to self destruct

And I mean it

I'm not talking about prophesies and old books of the bible but clear sighted knowledge

I absolutely agree.

It is not in our hands though.

They, the peoples of the mideast, just like the peoples of Africa can't be helped from outside.

They must learn to help themselves before we can do anything to help them.

Sure there are regular folks that are suffering in both places.

But many like things the way they are.

Until that changes.....nothing will.

originally posted by: earthling42
a reply to: Willtell

No, it starts with people who are out to gain something in this world, be it power and position, or money and status.
They might be evil in your opinion, in their opinion you are evil, they are certainly not incompetent and ignorant, they know precisely how to play the mass and gain support in order to get what they want.

Be it political, religious or economic, there is always someone who says "follow me, i know".
They derive their power from those who bow for them, so if one says humans are sheeps, yes, quite right.

The right sentence therefore is, they become leaders because humanity hands them the position and support which turns them into a powerful person.

Year after year, century after century it is the same repeat all over again because humanity seems unable to get out of this cycle.

Than the question, what is IS or ISIL?
One can say IS is the caliphate Islamic State, but in reality the extremist ideology is not restricted to the borders of the caliphate, it is between the ears of many all over the world under different names such as al nusra, alqaida, hamas, hezbollah, muslim brotherhood, taliban, isis, boko haram, and many more less known fruits from the islamic tree.

If one wants to fight it, one should go to the root, the tree itself, not its fruit.
But i do not see this happening any time soon.

Don't be ashamed of being a human being, be human, be the change you want to see, be a healthy cell, the world benefits more from you as a healthy human being which lights the world a bit.

I agree we need to go after the tree not the fruit.

What is the one thing all these groups have in common?

Their religious ideology.

I have said Islam is the problem many times, but most can't understand my point.

They think it is an attack on all Muslim peoples, when it is just pointing out the root cause of the problem.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Willtell

"The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them: that's the essence of inhumanity."
-George Bernard Shaw

A rare example of me humbly agreeing with you.

(tips the hat)

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!

Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity.

The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men."

-Winston Churchill

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Willtell

"The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them: that's the essence of inhumanity."
-George Bernard Shaw

A rare example of me humbly agreeing with you.

(tips the hat)

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!

Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity.

The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men."

-Winston Churchill

Exactly!!

a reply to: Willtell

"We are no different from the ancient savages."

True that. And those who are different from that, are always a minority, unfortunately. The ones who can see the madness are usually (best case) ignored or (worst case) persecuted and eradicated.

Typical humans are by nature, greedy and self serving.

People always seem to be willing to follow sociopaths in the hopes that it will benefit them and as long as they are not the ones suffering, they could care less about those nameless "others". Only 75 years ago millions of people were willing to follow a madman named Hitler because he gave them a blameable group upon which to fixate all of their dissatisfaction. It's astounding that could happen in a time with such advanced thinking and technology, but think of the contempt today for poor people who are "taking my tax money!" . One big mouth with power to send up the war cry and the ignorant masses are out for blood.

On a smaller and less lethal level, think of the bully at the office who climbs the ladder to success by murdering other's careers. Does anyone stand up to them?? No, they are perceived as "go getters", leaders, or "confident" when they are really just jerks.

I've always wondered if I was somehow defective in some way that I didn't want any power or tons of money. If I was willing to push others under the bus, I might have gotten somewhere in life. But it's just not worth it. As long as I've got food and shelter I'm good. I don't fear much anymore, but I do fear other people. Nothing in life has damaged me more than other people and their mean, greedy and selfish ways.

In a nutshell humans just suck. The only way to become better humans is to become less human - meaning we temper those base human instincts of being overly greedy and power hungry. After all, we are only here for 80 years on average. What good are those gold coins in a hand that turns to dust?

a reply to: EveStreet

Just a question to try to convert you or at least alter your perception on the topic; what gave your own family their continuity, loyalty and unity?

Is not the existence of that independent reference for human dignity worthwhile?

a reply to: infinityorder

I agree that there is a corruption in the Quran that the people who read it do not want to see and their faith in the Quran is making them blind. It is not perfect spiritual text but what Muhammed really taught I cannot know since Uthman burned all other versions than the one Uthman wanted.

To be fair Paul contribution/Paulism in Christian bible is the same spiritual disease from my point of view.

What I would not give to have people use critical/higher level awareness when it comes to spiritual things so they can see beyond the ego/conditioning and see on a higher logical level.

Rumi that was a Sufi mystic was spot on from my point of view but people listen to Muhammed (Uthman:s version) instead.
Jesus was spot on from my point of view but people listen to Paul instead.

Isil is a frightening example of the fact that most people still have their head up their A$$ and don't realize that Isis, Isil or whatever you want to call it is a creation of the policies of National government.. it is a CIA or Mossad creation to foster a larger picture of fear and evil that is being perpetuated on this planet by the minions of inter-dimensional demonic forces. The whole system is a scam, realize your own power and deny it to these parasites.

originally posted by: earthling42
a reply to: Willtell

No, it starts with people who are out to gain something in this world, be it power and position, or money and status.
They might be evil in your opinion, in their opinion you are evil, they are certainly not incompetent and ignorant, they know precisely how to play the mass and gain support in order to get what they want.

Be it political, religious or economic, there is always someone who says "follow me, i know".
They derive their power from those who bow for them, so if one says humans are sheeps, yes, quite right.

The right sentence therefore is, they become leaders because humanity hands them the position and support which turns them into a powerful person.

Year after year, century after century it is the same repeat all over again because humanity seems unable to get out of this cycle.

Than the question, what is IS or ISIL?
One can say IS is the caliphate Islamic State, but in reality the extremist ideology is not restricted to the borders of the caliphate, it is between the ears of many all over the world under different names such as al nusra, alqaida, hamas, hezbollah, muslim brotherhood, taliban, isis, boko haram, and many more less known fruits from the islamic tree.

If one wants to fight it, one should go to the root, the tree itself, not its fruit.
But i do not see this happening any time soon.

Don't be ashamed of being a human being, be human, be the change you want to see, be a healthy cell, the world benefits more from you as a healthy human being which lights the world a bit.

Thanks for the words.

I think what we have here like most things in life are a matter of degrees.

If this was your average tyrant I wouldn’t recommend the extreme solution I recommend.

As for the advice about making oneself a change agent, I couldn’t agree more, but advocating the elimination of tyranny and extreme evil is part of that.

When or if we here in America are under similar tyranny we all would want others to do as much as possible to help us.


Apropos is a doctrine in Islam that applies here:

It says that in terms of what one judges of being evil in the world there are 3 levels for an individual human to deal with it.

First, hate the evil in your heart

Second, to speak out against it, if possible

Third, to confront it personally with your hands, if possible.
When such evil comes upon the earth all humans of a good nature, imo, should deal with it on one or more of these levels.

a reply to: Willtell

Yes degrees, first there are the noble, below them are the free people, than there are the slaves.

The noble is the one who has defeated himself.
The free man knows how to live his own life and bear his responsibility as a human being.
The slave is a man who is slave to his own lusts and to stupid to live his own life, let alone knows how to be a responsible human.

It is the third, the ignoble slave led by his lusts and so called holy book which he sees as the highest truth that thinks he is the noble because he lives by the word of the book.
Other slaves and the free man including the noble must submit himself to the slave and his written truth.
If not, well we have read it in history books, and now we see it happening in the middle east.

Ideology can not be fought through battle between man but should be fought by eliminating the part of the tree which produces this fruits.

Islam is divided greatly in itself, Yazidi, Kurd, Sunni, Shiites, Alawite, Wahhabism, Salafism.
And they all say that the other is not muslim because they follow a different sect of islam.
They are killing each other but also foreigners who came to help the local people, they kill christians, hate westeners and jews, so i guess they just skipped Apropos.

As for Apropos, one should not hate the evil in his heart, but simply eliminate it.
In Germanic Mythology it is described as Nidhogg the terrible dragon, but when looking at him, he turns his head away acknowledging that you are the master.

While the atrocities are being committed in the middle east, the answer according to me is not to go there and fight, it will only be fuel for more extremism towards the west, US and Europe.
The best answer is to protect ourselves against jihadis within Europe, and let them fight their battle in the middle east.

In the meantime it would be great if laws were implemented which deal with radical islam and hate speech within the borders of Europe.

a reply to: Willtell

You should look into who funded ISIS to begin with and made them what they are

Cough NATO US Canada UK Saudis

Cough

originally posted by: Willtell
It starts with our so-called leaders

They are evil, incompetent, wicked, ignorant, etc.

I’m not even dealing with politics here.

Any one country in this world will and can experience oppressive tyranny at any time by a group of mad human beings such as the unfortunate people facing Isil.

It could come from a government, from criminals, from revolutionaries, or other human interaction based on politics, war or a cult, or movement.

What happens is that for a period of time there are always innocents who through the vagaries of fate are subject to the madness of the human being run amuck with evil: the cult leader like Manson, Dave Quraish, Jim Jones, the political leader like a Hitler, a Mussolini, and today innocents are being tortured and murdered and oppressed by perhaps the most barbaric, religio-political movement since Genghis Khan, Isil.

Bottom line, at all times any of us are in peril of being thrown into the abyss and orbit of human oppression…and can become victims of such oppression where the only hope is intervention by other humans outside our environment.

So here we go again at another moral and spiritual crossroads of human degradation with this group known as Isil…

And what is this so called MODERN WORLD DOING?

NOTHING MUCH

Where’s the Goddam UN?

Have these leaders thought of convening an international force through the UN, to rid the world quickly of this humanitarian disaster?

This btw should include the mad dogs called Boko Haram...

IN ONE WEEK COULD THIS BE DEALT WITH IF THIS WORLD HAD THE WILL?

So please don’t give me anymore crap about the modern world that doesn’t burn people at the stake anymore or cut peoples heads off.

We are no different from the ancient savages

We have only evolved to being HYPOCRITES

As a human race we aught to be ashamed of ourselves

For we have again failed our fellow human being

We have failed the victims of Isil

As we have failed the past victims of tragedies like this

I am ashamed of being a human being

The system is rigged so we literally only have the illusion of power anymore. Think about, as an American citizen, do I have ANY realistic capability of deciding anything politically? Do I have any choice over who runs this country? Even if I could someone comandeer a few thousand votes for the next presidential race I wouldn't have any say. I don't control the two turds they pretend we're choosing between, and I don't control which of those two gets elected. How the hell would any of us have the power to start to a fight against ISIS?

a reply to: Willtell

I am not arguing with what you have stated but have you ever considered 'human evolution' in the social sense is a false assumption?

Technology evolves. Species physically evolve. But can something as ill-defined as society or culture evolve? On top of that, is a positive, natural trajectory for how we treat each other really inevitable?

I do not think so. While there may be a few forces driving some degree of cooperation and tolerance, the result is finite.

I do not think this is a pessimistic view, merely a historical observation.

The only devolution of mankind is people actually believing that people who we are going to ask to save us from ISIS are NOT the ones who allowed it's creation to begin with.

I've devolved because I know this is a trap? I don't think so.

It is obviously going to take some time to rally support against ISIS since support would have to come from those intelligent enough to know ISIS is BS right down to the root. So if this is the game that is being played, everyone is going to want to come out with something for it and that is going to take time to hash out.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Willtell

We are no different from the ancient savages

I am not so sure about that...we have the ability to destroy ourselves and the rest of the planet many times over...that's progress for ya

Killing is easy. Mankind is at a stage where we sit atop a teeter totter.Hopefully we keep ascending, but with just one slip we lose all of our progress. Unlike a rock climber we as a society cant seem to bolt into place and prevent a catastrophic fall back to squäre 1.

a reply to: fartsmeller46

Killing is easy

originally posted by: ABNARTY
a reply to: Willtell

I am not arguing with what you have stated but have you ever considered 'human evolution' in the social sense is a false assumption?

Technology evolves. Species physically evolve. But can something as ill-defined as society or culture evolve? On top of that, is a positive, natural trajectory for how we treat each other really inevitable?

I do not think so. While there may be a few forces driving some degree of cooperation and tolerance, the result is finite.

I do not think this is a pessimistic view, merely a historical observation.

Well the OP says we haven't evolved very much

Your, I think, Agreeing with me

a reply to: PizzaAnyday505

Isil is probably a part of the plot to take out Arab leaders: It’s a long range operation started with Saddam

It follows the rule that was enunciated by the guy in the JFK movie who spoke to Jim Garrison on that park bench.

Whatever happens, setbacks, or whatever, the black op must be carried out

What is the black op?

To overthrow Saddam, Mubarak, Khadaffi, and Assad BY ANY AND ALL MEANS