Sanjay Gupta Destroys Rand Paul

a reply to: boymonkey74

The guy betrayed Kali, what do you want from me?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: boymonkey74

The guy betrayed Kali, what do you want from me?

But more importantly, did you wash your hands before you did that?

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

But more importantly, did you wash your hands before you did that?

Uh, yeah. Duh. Think I wanted him to get an infection?

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: stirling

Yes they can kill you.
Also If you are pregnant and contract measles it can cause many complications.

www.nhs.uk...

So If your kid has not had the shot and measles is around please stay away from pregnant people.
We live in society and to not get vaccinated only harms others around you.

Also please stay away from people who've had a transplant, children under the age of one, cancer patients, immune suppressant patients, etc... You will quite literally be the harbinger of death for them and I don't think they'd appreciate that.

originally posted by: Anyafaj

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: stirling

Yes they can kill you.
Also If you are pregnant and contract measles it can cause many complications.

www.nhs.uk...

So If your kid has not had the shot and measles is around please stay away from pregnant people.
We live in society and to not get vaccinated only harms others around you.

Also please stay away from people who've had a transplant, children under the age of one, cancer patients, immune suppressant patients, etc... You will quite literally be the harbinger of death for them and I don't think they'd appreciate that.

Very good point. My sister takes immune suppressants for her arthritis and if some unvaccinated sick kid comes over and plays with her child, it could be game over for her.

originally posted by: Aleister
a reply to: Anyafaj

I and my siblings all had measles at the same time, and at one point mumps at the same time, and all we did was miss school and watch TV. When did measles become the scary plague? It was itchy, and we ate ice cream. That's my memory of measles.

And if you get it as a kid, you can get brain diseases later in life that can kill you, it's wicked awesome dude!

If you survive the measles

For every 100,000 cases of measles, about 7 will eventually get subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE).

SSPE is a severe brain inflammation that happens 7 to 10 years after recovering from measles. It leads to muscle spasms, seizures, dementia, personality changes, and death.

“It’s a death sentence,” Offit said. “If you have that, you’re going to die.”

In a few children, for example, measles has triggered facial gangrene.

The death rate is low.


Before the measles vaccine existed, 3 to 4 million people contracted measles each year. Of these, 48,000 were hospitalized and about 500 died.

Thanks to the vaccine, the U.S. rarely sees a measles death anymore. But that could change if these outbreaks persist.

“Measles is not just the provence of the undernourished child in Africa,” Offit said. “Healthy children in the United States can die of measles — there’s plenty of evidence for that.”

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: randomtangentsrme

A clinical diagnosis can't even start to be considered accurate until about the age of two. Anyone who claims their child has autism at or before that age is just guessing. Even a two- or three-year-old is hard to diagnose unless they are at the extreme end of the autistic spectrum.

My daughter was at the extreme end of the spectrum. HOWEVER it was because of brain damage caused by oxygen loss at birth and missing part of her brain, NOT vaccines. And giving my daughter her vaccines did NOT make her autism worse. I got my vaccines. I don't have any "profound mental disorders." Ohhhhh, wait, maybe I do.....

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Anyafaj

Well, I have a son with Aspergers Syndrome and ADHD. I have asked him, since he's 11 now, if he would wish to get rid of all of his tics and societal issues and uncontrolled reactions and outbursts if it meant being itchy and sick for a few weeks. He would give nearly anything to rid himself of these symptoms, because it is fostering a drop in self-esteem because of his inability to interact "normally" with other kids in the neighborhood. He's tired of hearing things like, "Try to control that (insert behavior here," when he's over-hyped and can't control himself. He hates losing control over his emotions for things as simple as a friend wanting to play something different than what he wants to, or is disinterested in something that my son created from his imagination. He gets his feelings hurt when a voice is raised at him to the point that he truly thinks that people, including me and his mom, do it intentionally just to make him feel bad.

I'm not convinced in the least that the MMR vaccine causes autism, but for you to pretend that living a life within the autistic spectrum is somehow better than getting measles is one of the most asinine comments that I have ever read on this site. Yes, there are moments when he sees joy in simple things, but those are not the norm with his symptoms. He can't even stand to be on the same side of the room when his 13-month-old sister has a bottle--he reacts like she is diseased because she's drinking from something, and he can't be in the same room when she eats because her dirty face grosses him out to the point that he can't eat.

This is not better than contracting measles. He is who he is, and I don't ever want that to change--but for nearly a decade of his life, he has wanted it to change, and that breaks my heart.

My daughter wishes she wouldn't get frustrated over everything. She's got an IQ of 50. She's going to be 20 this year but operates on a 12 yr old level. To her, everyone she meets is her friend. She wishes her "friends" wouldn't make fun of her all the time and would be nicer to her. It breaks my heart when I hear that because as a mother, I can't go into the school, follow her and kick the butts of the snots there! There ARE some really good kids, but there are some vicious little snots too! I just want to beat the dickens out of them.




I don't mean to offend, it just bugs the crap out of me that some people feel measles are somehow preferable to autism. The possibility of dying is better than your child living. I love my daughter immensely. She has taught me so much. There is NOTHING wrong with autism to me. To me, it is nothing more than an alternate world. It may not always be better 24/7, but sometimes there is a beauty there we don't see that they do. My daughter has opened my eyes to that. She sees things in a way I never thought possible before, that I am learning to every single day for the last 20 years. And I thank her for it. She's deeply religious. I think part of it was she was born dead. I'm Christian and I'm not as religious as her. For her, it's almost ingrained. It's all she talks about. God and heaven. She even talks about her time there and visiting her brother and sister (my miscarriages before her.) She had a psychiatrist tell her fairy tales were unhealthy so she doesn't talk about it anymore. I didn't find that very nice actually, who is he to tell my daughter her belief is a fairy tell. If it comforts her, why not?

Again, I honestly meant no disrespect, to me, autism is way more preferable than measles, but if you took disrespect, I truly apologize. And, no, I would never want my daughter to change either, any more than I would stop the stars from sparkling at night!

a reply to: Anyafaj

It didn't offend me, I just differ in opinion. The fear of death from measles is not a high concern in modern America--none of its major symptoms are, and if they happen, it can be dealt with and, way more often than not, the effects are temporary. You obviously have a different experience with how autism affects your daughter, and she seems to be on the opposite, extreme end of the scale compared to my son.

Maybe with it being "just" Aspergers, it's tougher because he does have moments when he feels like a "normal" kid, and then suddenly he has uncontrollable urges that "ruin" the experience for him. I think as time goes on with him (he's 11 but has the emotional maturity and dexterity of about a 7-year-old), he'll be able to manage and adapt to these parts of him a little better, but he's at an age right now where his body is wanting to mature, but his emotions and parts of his brain are fighting it--I don't envy that at all.

Anyhoo, no offense taken, and never apologize for your views--we all have different experiences in life that lead us to our opinions.

a reply to: Anyafaj

While correlation does not mean causation, it is a valid tool and tells scientists (and others) where to look. It's the smoke that tells you to look closer at what a relationship could be between the two variables. Strong correlation tells you that there is a definite relationship between the two, not the nature of that relationship.

While I agree with Dr. Gupta in general, I think he is being very disingenuous.

Correlation is an important part of the scientific method - it's tells people that more research needs to be completed to learn the nature and strength of the relationship.

HIV virus/AIDS is a good example - we know there is a very strong correlation between the two - but we don't know the exact nature of the relationship.

Correlation does not mean coincidence.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Anyafaj

It didn't offend me, I just differ in opinion. The fear of death from measles is not a high concern in modern America--none of its major symptoms are, and if they happen, it can be dealt with and, way more often than not, the effects are temporary. You obviously have a different experience with how autism affects your daughter, and she seems to be on the opposite, extreme end of the scale compared to my son.

Maybe with it being "just" Aspergers, it's tougher because he does have moments when he feels like a "normal" kid, and then suddenly he has uncontrollable urges that "ruin" the experience for him. I think as time goes on with him (he's 11 but has the emotional maturity and dexterity of about a 7-year-old), he'll be able to manage and adapt to these parts of him a little better, but he's at an age right now where his body is wanting to mature, but his emotions and parts of his brain are fighting it--I don't envy that at all.

Anyhoo, no offense taken, and never apologize for your views--we all have different experiences in life that lead us to our opinions.

I know, for me personally, if I offend, I have always apologized because sometimes in offense it can hurt the other. I'm an empath. I don't like to hurt others, as it hurts me. My daughter has operated at a 12 yr old level since she was 15, and likely will for a long time. Likely forever. She is missing part of her brain that connects the left half the brain with the right. It never formed in the womb. But she's very lucky as she could be one of the many who will never walk, talk, or be able to feed herself. I consider her a blessing in many ways, as she died at birth from me having food poisoning that turned into blood poisoning. Listeria. I also almost died. Again, I'm glad no offense was taken!

originally posted by: stirling
Vaccinate away Domo....measles wont kill ya and mumps wont either.....
I don't think the whole truth has surfaced on the subject just yet......
If course that makes me a dumbass idiot in your book, but theres a lot you don't know either....which doesn't sit well with your arrogance....

Actually measles and mumps can kill, particularly children.

Also, (not that you said this, it is directed to the posters that did) there is no correlation between autism and vaccinations.

It doesn't really do any good to say this; I can say until I'm blue in the face and point you to study after study after study, but... All of those studies are biased and wrong and I don't know anything and blah, blah, blah.

Maybe when enough kids from these pretentious, middle class idiots start dying this anti-vaccination movement will swing the other way. I think that is what it will take.

My take on vaccines is a little different. I still demand the right to make my own (and for my children) decision.

I believe that vaccines do work.

That said, I object to them because of:

1) The toxic chemicals included with them and poor quality control of the actual viral material used.

and

2) More important, long term is the damage down to individuals and populations by not exercising the immune system by fighting viral infections. While the declining health of people (those that survive) is attributable to many causes, I think we are passing on 'deficient' immune systems to our offspring due to vaccinations. People are living to reproduce today and in the recent past that would have never survived childhood in the past. It's harsh but viruses did weed out physically week 'stock'.

originally posted by: FyreByrd
The toxic chemicals included with them

At what dosage are they toxic?

a reply to: redhorse

Seriously, how many people are going to die from the measles? 197,000 die worldwide, that is out of 6 billion people, do the math, I believe that is about .00328%, but correct me if I'm wrong. It should NOT be up to the big pharma guys or the government on when or who should be vaccinated.

If you are vaccinated why do you worry about those unvaccinated? We are putting all this energy in to the wrong direction.

originally posted by: Watcher777

Seriously, how many people are going to die from the measles? 197,000 die worldwide, that is out of 6 billion people, do the math, I believe that is about .00328%, but correct me if I'm wrong. It should NOT be up to the big pharma guys or the government on when or who should be vaccinated.

Even 1 vaccine-preventable death is 1 too many. And the numbers will only continue to rise with the way things are going right now.

If you are vaccinated why do you worry about those unvaccinated?

Because people who cannot be vaccinated (babies, immunocompromised, allergic, etc.) or those who developed an insufficient immune response from the vaccine are protected by Herd Immunity.

originally posted by: GetHyped

Even 1 vaccine-preventable death is 1 too many. And the numbers will only continue to rise with the way things are going right now.

So how is that one life saved any more valuable to the one life lost to a failed vaccination?


Because people who cannot be vaccinated (babies, immunocompromised, allergic, etc.) or those who developed an insufficient immune response from the vaccine are protected by Herd Immunity.

You will never, never, never have Herd Immunity. We live in a land of immigrants, our borders are revolving doors, you may as well live in a glass bubble if you think you can protect yourself.

I am NOT an anti-vaccine advocate, BUT I am an advocate of choice.

originally posted by: Watcher777

So how is that one life saved any more valuable to the one life lost to a failed vaccination?

I was exaggerating to make a point. FAR more lives are saved due to vaccines.

MMR:

Severe Problems (Very Rare)
Serious allergic reaction (less than 1 out of a million doses)
Several other severe problems have been reported after a child gets MMR vaccine, including:
Deafness
Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness
Permanent brain damage
These are so rare that it is hard to tell whether they are caused by the vaccine.

Less than 1 in a million is a VERY small chance (and even then there's no solid causal link between the complications and the vaccine).

Now for measles:

Severe Complications

Some people may suffer from severe complications, such as pneumonia (infection of the lungs) and encephalitis (swelling of the brain). They may need to be hospitalized and could die.

As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
About one child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or mentally retarded.
For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.
Measles may cause pregnant woman to give birth prematurely, or have a low-birth-weight baby.

The benefits of the MMR vaccine FAR outway the risks.

You will never, never, never have Herd Immunity. We live in a land of immigrants, our borders are revolving doors, you may as well live in a glass bubble if you think you can protect yourself.

Herd immunity also protects against that exact scenario. Even MORE reason to get vaccination levels up:

I am NOT an anti-vaccine advocate, BUT I am an advocate of choice.

And I'm an advocate for choice as to whether or not some is allowed to get behind the wheel of a car when drunk /s

a reply to: GetHyped


Herd Immunity is a THEORY only. You have so many other issues that come into play that you cannot claim it to be a fact.

What you have going on right now is the media pushing the hysteria button. A few months ago it was Ebola and the horrible flu season. Lets all jump on the band wagon because of our fears.

So when you compare someone who is not immunized to someone who gets behind the wheel drunk, in your mind you are saying those are the same offense? What about people who purposefully go out in public when they sick, should they be compared to the same drunk drivers? They could harm or even kill people with lowered immune systems, maybe it was only a cold but to someone else it could turn into something more violent. So we should lock those people up too?

a reply to: Domo1

Lol you do realize RSV hospitalizes 90,000 children each year in the USA and kills approx: 4500! There is NO vaccine for respiratory syncytial virus! Yeah but let's focus on a benign childhood disease that pretty much EVERYONE used to get and recover perfectly fine from instead. Let's deny emerging science that suggests natural acquired immunity protects the human species from diseases like bubonic plague and listeria.

You do realize this hyped up measles outbreak has killed how many.....zero? Kids????????!!!!!!!! You are a very scary sad excuse for an American. This country was founded on individual liberty not group think tyrannical lemming government fear and propaganda.