Apostle Paul makes you complicit to evil leaders due to stupidly false assumptions

originally posted by: JessicaRabbitTx
a reply to: johndeere2020

I hope Paul's afterlife consists of nothing but watching women stay in abusive relationships because of his teachings.

I believed what he taught for a long time until I realized that his philosophy for having a good marriage ****just doesn't work**** unless you married a perfect man.

If someone says something and it doesn't work, what do you call that someone? A liar!

What Paul taught did nothing to improve the welfare of women as they were treated as 2nd class citizens in his time and probably helped prolonged the problem. Worse, early national laws of Christian nations based their laws on the Bible, many in Mosaic laws. This prolonged the misery of women. Equality of the sexes is a very recent phenomenon (20th century) and so far, only one nation on Earth has achieved 100% - Iceland. Equality of the sexes encompasses everything including respect which Iceland so has managed to do with very good results.

Fact is the character of "Jesus" doesn't belong in the bible since most of the Bible seems to contradict Jesus, largely illogical, and evil. Take Jesus out and the Bible would be very much like Islam with a few tweaks. Unfortunately, even the teachings of Jesus may have been corrupted too. I don't believe everyone of them to be the truth - if it doesn't produce the expected result in real life, then it's probably a lie!

I believe a character like "Jesus" did exist but his profile might have been entirely different.

The Gospel of Mary tells a different story and Jesus made Mary the spiritual leader of the original disciples

originally posted by: Chronogoblin

He didn't say to tolerate poor leaders, or that we should all bow to tyrants. Think of it as bending without breaking.

Again, this is under the assumption that corruption and injustice rarely happened especially in the Roman Empire which the Authorities at the time of Paul, not to mention the Religious authorities who pushed to crucify the innocent Jesus.

The fact is injustice is very common in the ruling elite of the Roman Empire and the Jewish Religious authorities of Paul's time. Child sexual abuse is disturbingly common in the Roman Empire's elite.

In fact, historical facts and corruption and injustices in authorities in his time would make Paul seem like he's trying to paint a good image to an otherwise evil and corrupt ruling elite of the Roman Empire and Jewish Orthodoxy.

and a few others that claim that religion and science are incompatible. I beg to differ.

Our present form of religion started out when science was mostly garbage and based on ignorance... ...You might want to reconsider your belief on that one.

China, India, et al, are secular (Atheist) or non-Abrahamic religious nations. With India being mostly Brahman and a mix of a few other faiths. You can't really use those IMO to denigrate the Abrahamic faith. If you really wanted a good example, you would use a more widely accepted nation, like America. Which you sort-of alluded to in your OP.

China, India, and Abrahamic religions all treat women in lesser regards. Chinese abort their girls and traffic their women, rape is extremely common in India, Abrahamic religions which include Islam and Judaism (whose men thank God they are not born women) and of course Christianity led by Paul.

The greater misery of women either in neglect or discrimination is the common theme in these entities.


America is divided. It is shying away from Christianity to Either Atheism and Islam and probably becoming increasingly religious towards Islam and the worship of money.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: StalkerSolent

actually what it is I think is that if the people are not living according to God's instructions he will raise up leaders that will do terrible things till they repent or use another force to dethrone their king and rule instead..

Well, that happens pretty often in Scripture! Seems to be a pattern in the world...

originally posted by: StalkerSolent

Well, that happens pretty often in Scripture! Seems to be a pattern in the world...

Or a deliberate false teaching so we will tolerate the largely evil ruling elite.

Ever wonder if religion could serve a nefarious purpose?

Don't stop with the possibilities until you find the truth and set free from lies!

originally posted by: johndeere2020

originally posted by: StalkerSolent

Well, that happens pretty often in Scripture! Seems to be a pattern in the world...

Or a deliberate false teaching so we will tolerate the largely evil ruling elite.

Ever wonder if religion could serve a nefarious purpose?

Don't stop with the possibilities until you find the truth and set free from lies!

Of course religion could be used to serve a nefarious purpose. That's a no-brainer.

originally posted by: misskat1
a reply to: Gryphon66

When I figure it all out, I will let you know. So, far Ive figured out that there is a real Christ Spirit, and we all seem to fill in the blanks with our Religious Programming. I do think there is profound wisdom in a lot of ancient texts and I do not limit my research into just the quamran material or the nag hammadi. Im still asking questions, and I probably wont know until I meet my maker. I just know that for most of my life Ive been driven to find out. Just a curious bystander.

Fair enough.

Thanks for your real and heartfelt answer!

a reply to: johndeere2020

I give you Sikhism as an example on how Christian religion might have been without Paul. A monotheistic religion based on equality and religion preaching non duality and teaches mediation as a guide to spiritual insight.

Men and women are equal in Sikhism and share the same rights.It should be noted, while churches have been arguing, in recent times on female priest ordination, women have been leading in prayers at Sikh temples since the foundation of Sikhism(some 500 years).

en.wikipedia.org...

When one side of the world do not listen to reason another side of the world gets gurus/prophets to push spirituality forward.

originally posted by: misskat1
a reply to: Gryphon66

When I figure it all out, I will let you know. So, far Ive figured out that there is a real Christ Spirit, and we all seem to fill in the blanks with our Religious Programming. I do think there is profound wisdom in a lot of ancient texts and I do not limit my research into just the quamran material or the nag hammadi. Im still asking questions, and I probably wont know until I meet my maker. I just know that for most of my life Ive been driven to find out. Just a curious bystander.

Depends on what you mean by Christ spirit. From my point of view Christ spirit is being anointed in light energy on the head feeling energy flowing thru the body from above. Spiritual water (vibrating energy) from above while you can experience the flame from the bottom of the spine creating heat upwards. Light/chi/Kundalini energy is a real thing that can be sensed in the body.

Normal physical symptoms in the body are heat/cold/vibrations. One of the reasons some new age people are talking about rising their vibrations. Flowing energy thru your body to feel the bliss of being united with whatever is on the higher levels of being.

Some souls are good at pushing the energy into others with tools like Reiki/laying of hands creating calmness and relaxation in others. Everyone can learn if they want to. To get very advanced takes practice like with everything else.

Namaste.

And when they pledge and come together, and start arising
Just drink the water where you came from, where you came from
It's in the water where you came from

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
a reply to: johndeere2020

I give you Sikhism as an example on how Christian religion might have been without Paul. A monotheistic religion based on equality and religion preaching non duality and teaches mediation as a guide to spiritual insight.

Men and women are equal in Sikhism and share the same rights.It should be noted, while churches have been arguing, in recent times on female priest ordination, women have been leading in prayers at Sikh temples since the foundation of Sikhism(some 500 years).

en.wikipedia.org...

When one side of the world do not listen to reason another side of the world gets gurus/prophets to push spirituality forward.

Sorry but I don't go with religion anymore because collectively, we can be very stupid. We were never meant to be together. We cannot cooperate as effectively as ants and bees.

One of the product of the "fall of humankind" are cities, nations, etc and of course pollution, overpopulation, poverty, crime, disease.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
One of the reasons I think the Christian faith should be called Paulism.

Paul was a deceiver or a crazy person who cannot teach about the holy spirit who speak with duality and his own ego delusions and wants. I hope the soul that was Paul have ascended and moved on but will forever think his work is not good enough.

Why listen to "not good enough" when there is Yeshua, Rumi, Siddhārtha Gautama, Nanak, Socrates and Plato. I demand much from those who teach and both Paul and Muhammed do not measure up to teach anything from my point of view.

But then I like the holy spirit to reveal itself as a real things that do not need faith. I found that in meditation and in Reiki. Spirit energy infused in the body and the mind saw thing clearly on a higher level.

Namaste (I bow to the divine in you)

I guess you are on the right track but IMO I have seen that you have just advanced and found the NEXT gatekeepers.

Reiki is heavily governed and its roots are from the same areas as all of these religions.

Please move far forwards from it, or just stay the same as all the other Reiki Masters, ascended Avatars and the like, all believing in delusion and all never trying to really figure out how, all being fed by a SOURCE they believe is PURE.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

I would like to think you are correct, but Spirituality, is not moving forward and has never done so.

It appears to be something that is a deception all of its own, a cap on real actionable energy.

Gurus appearing here and there do nothing to the overall argument, they only stir the pot and add more confusion.

None are even remotely close to the truth of existence, or to achieving a goal that we would ever recognize or care about.

None have anything to do with "humans" , and certainly the Ultimate Source everyone thinks they are accessing is yet another layer to be ripped apart.

The good news is, those who think a HELL OF ALOT differently are now preparing to show others that Spirituality is a lot bigger and stronger than they could ever believe.

Making Jesus moments that are largely untalked about in Christianity such as blinking out of peoples view, reappearing anywhere at will, something of the norm.

originally posted by: ParasuvO
Making Jesus moments that are largely untalked about in Christianity such as blinking out of peoples view, reappearing anywhere at will, something of the norm.

Happened with a whole boat load of people in John chapter 6 in the sea of Galilee. It's either that or all the occupants of the boat had a "missing time" experience. Apparently, they saw Jesus in a different form and hovering over the water. Also in the same chapter, tons of food coming from nowhere.

They have certainly experienced a full-blown paranormal activity there.

I believe in paranormal activity and also suspect they maybe manifestations of our own telekinetic abilities.

originally posted by: johndeere2020

Paul is also the same apostle who taught women to subject themselves to their husbands and banned them from leadership.
Abrahamic religions wage war against sound reasoning and logic and against women.

In general you are on to something, i guess, i don't know, but my thought is this:
I describe myself as being a very gay guy trapped in a female body. My personality is a mixture of emotions and reason, my reason is male, my emotions are female, my body is female. And that's also where my strong and weak areas lay, means which parts i have to open up and take th wisdom of others in and in which parts i can actively contribute. Or to refer to your other threat, the one with the wolves and the sheep: I need someone to protect me emotional and physical-wise, but i can take of others with my mind. You know because gender is a subjective thing, i can be more than one thing at the same time, depending on the circumstances and my reflection and... a lot of things.
Though i don't always agree with you, this thanks also goes for you, more than "average"

a reply to: johndeere2020

Nope

Acts 5:29

But Peter and the apostles replied, “We must obey God rather than any human authority.

What Paul was referring to when he was talking about obeying the authorities was all laws that do not conflict with obeying God, for example taxes, even Jesus said to pay them when he was trying to be tricked by the Pharisees.
But going to war as a soldier, that is in conflict with the bible and Jesus teachings. Breaking some of God's laws also violate many secular laws such as murder and stealing and the like.
Some rules are for our own protection and safety for example a traffic signal at a very busy intersection prevents mayhem, and we obey it to stop ourselves from getting into an accident, or hurting others.

Don't think that scripture is a free pass for the governments to make us their total slaves, there is a line informed Christians know not to cross, actually research the Christian conscientious objectors in WW2 it is interesting, there were some on both sides, but Nazi Germany killed many of them.

Note:
Some argue that taxes are spent on evil things too, so they shouldn't be paid; the Roman government of Jesus day was doing evil things too. Now what the government chooses to spend our taxes on, is not on us, it's on them and they are accountable to God for it, not us.

So If they want build hospitals and provide free medical care and build roads and maintain them and have no army like Costa Rica great.
But if they want to spend the money financing wars and weapons, that's not good, but that's not our fault, and God knows that.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Acts 5:27
And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,

28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.

29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

Romans 13
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

Gee! Confusing and contradictory scripture? Who ya gonna believe, Peter or Paul?

a reply to: windword

Ephesians 6
12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Even Paul disagrees with himself. He says that we struggle against the powers of this world, yet in Romans 13 he says that those in power are God's servants for our good.

Paul is a mess of Pharisaic teachings that turned into modern Christianity. He never converted, he made up a story of his conversion then sold his lie as truth.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Acts 5:27
29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men..

Gee! Confusing and contradictory scripture? Who ya gonna believe, Peter or Paul?

For every side of an argument, you'll almost always find something that agrees in the Bible. This proves the contradicting teachings in the Bible and the endless debates that ensues and of course the countless division within Christianity.

Christians tend to be nice people and often brilliant and talented but when it comes to religion, it shuts down completely,

originally posted by: johndeere2020

Again, this is under the assumption that corruption and injustice rarely happened especially in the Roman Empire which the Authorities at the time of Paul, not to mention the Religious authorities who pushed to crucify the innocent Jesus.

That really makes no sense, and has nothing to do with what I posted, thanks.

The fact is injustice is very common in the ruling elite of the Roman Empire and the Jewish Religious authorities of Paul's time. Child sexual abuse is disturbingly common in the Roman Empire's elite.

In fact, historical facts and corruption and injustices in authorities in his time would make Paul seem like he's trying to paint a good image to an otherwise evil and corrupt ruling elite of the Roman Empire and Jewish Orthodoxy.

Not sure what that has to do with what I posted either...

Our present form of religion started out when science was mostly garbage and based on ignorance... ...You might want to reconsider your belief on that one.

Again, not sure what that has to do with what I posted, you seem to reach a lot, and bring things into the conversation that really have no place being there, is that because you really have no answers? What I posted was fact, religion and science are completely compatible, it's the scientists that claim that their research must disclude God.

China, India, and Abrahamic religions all treat women in lesser regards. Chinese abort their girls and traffic their women, rape is extremely common in India, Abrahamic religions which include Islam and Judaism (whose men thank God they are not born women) and of course Christianity led by Paul.

The greater misery of women either in neglect or discrimination is the common theme in these entities.


America is divided. It is shying away from Christianity to Either Atheism and Islam and probably becoming increasingly religious towards Islam and the worship of money.

Again, your reaching. China has nothing to do with anything, and seems to be there merely to demonize religion.

a reply to: TheWhiteKnight

It doesn't matter what you think is right or wrong, only what God wills. You may not like it, but God does raise tyrants for His own purposes. Not sure what your talking about with 'zionist techno-fascist state' or what that has to do with Paul, but rant on brother.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Chronogoblin
Either the whole Bible is false, or it is entirely true, there is no in-between.

A textbook example of what many would call the fallacy of the false dilemma, not to mention, a perfect example of extremism.

The book we currently call the bible is little more than a political document used to encourage submission to "higher authority."

Slaves, Obey your masters ... wives, Obey your husbands ... Obey the rulers, the priests, and any other charlatan that wants to control your life, ESPECIALLY if they claim to be doing so in god's name.

/sheesh

You forgot to include the disclaimer: "In MY opinion." Which is all this is.