Nasa to Officially Announce Mission to Europa This Spring!!

a reply to: JadeStar

People clamouring for a human mission to Europa need a reality check.

Thankyou!

I just watched a documentary about Saturn V...That thing burnt through 14 tons of fuel a second just get to the a point where it could escape Earths gravitational pull. A manned mission would need a vessel so large it would defy belief, not to mention conventional rockets would take a dozens of lifetimes to get there, and even if there is a breakthrough in cryogenics there's still the muscular and cardiovascular atrophy that the astronauts would endure on their trip.

Unless someone has a warp drive gathering dust under their beds then probes still remain our best option.

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: JadeStar

People clamouring for a human mission to Europa need a reality check.

Thankyou!

I just watched a documentary about Saturn V...That thing burnt through 14 tons of fuel a second just get to the a point where it could escape Earths gravitational pull. A manned mission would need a vessel so large it would defy belief, not to mention conventional rockets would take a dozens of lifetimes to get there, and even if there is a breakthrough in cryogenics there's still the muscular and cardiovascular atrophy that the astronauts would endure on their trip.

Unless someone has a warp drive gathering dust under their beds then probes still remain our best option.

There are faster ways around the solar system than chemical rockets and not as far fetched as warp drives but even if NASA had the money for developing them they'd take at the very least a decade to get to the point of so much as a test flight.

I'm talking about stuff like fusion pulse engines, etc.

Might as well send a probe to Europa and see what we can sniff out first.

originally posted by: nullafides
a reply to: lostbook

This is great news...thanks for the thread!


There is ONE thing that puzzles me though....


Why is it dangled that we would be going here for water...to obtain water....for our own needs. Spending millions and billions of dollars to do so...


When IMHO we should be spending that money on desalination efforts of our own water here on earth ?

We're not going there to take water. We're going there because if you want to find life you follow the water. Everywhere there is water on Earth we find life.

originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: stirling
We have to have a moon base to explore the rest of the system....period.
Other than that we need a manufacturing base in orbit.
Its that simple people....the practicality of such explorations depends on that need......
Whats being done about it? Not a helluva lot....

So are you willing to raise taxes to give NASA the 200 billion dollar budget it would take to do all of that?

If not, why not?

How about we quit spending 100's of billions fighting wars in some place where no one cares about, and spend some of that defense budget on NASA.

Massive applause from me. I'm all for that. Now if you can convince the other 340 million who are fed a steady diet of fear porn about the world to do that that would be great.

There is more of a reason than ever to have humans continue to explore space.

Unfortunately the taxpayers do not agree. If so then NASA would have more than a measly 18 billion dollar budget.

Probes do not cut it.

Probes and telescopes have told us more about our solar system and the ones beyond it than all the human missions to the moon, Skylab, the shuttle and ISS combined.

So tell me again how they don't cut it?

How do you expect to make contact or research life

With our robots which might be better anyway for this purpose since contamination is a major fear. It's hard enough to sterilize probes. Try sterilizing a human. Uh that's a really bad idea.

Samples of exolife will be kept in isolation and its probably best that a human not handle them and bring them back to Earth, likewise it's probably best that a human not contaminate Europa or Mars until we've found life otherwise we might kill it before we find it.

physically study life on Europa when we can't even get to Mars?

We have got to Mars and Europa. With probes. Duh. Our robot ambassadors are better at doing certain things than humans and they don't need to be fed or protected as much from harsh radiation.

And every generation is smarter than the last. Can't really say the same about humans....

Simple fact is, probes can only do so much.

I agree. But unless there is a mass interest in space no one is willing to pay what it would take to build up the infrastructure to send humans much further than the Moon.

What could spark that interest again? Finding life. How best to find it? Probes and telescopes.

Hubble Telescope Communication Breaks Down, Plot Thickens

Flat out! Rosetta probe runs out of battery power just two days after touching down on comet...

Crippled Mars Rover is Chilled, But Still Alive

Three examples of broken multi-million dollar equipment. Yep, that's a great way to spend millions and billions of dollars. Maybe if we had spent a few more millions of dollars, humans could be out there fixing it.

And every single one of those accomplished it's mission, most of them have outlasted their projected primary mission.

And it wouldn't be a few million dollars for a human mission to Mars to fix a rover that's already outdated. It would be around 50 billion.

originally posted by: JadeStar

And it wouldn't be a few million dollars for a human mission to Mars to fix a rover that's already outdated. It would be around 50 billion.

Heck, it would probably be more than that to get humans to set foot on Mars.

Back in the height of the research, design, and testing phases of for the Apollo Program in the mid-1960s (research, design, and testing are the most expensive parts of just about any program), NASA's budget was about $40 Billion per year (in today's money, adjusted for inflation), most of which went towards Apollo. NASA's budget these days (as you mentioned) is much smaller -- only about $18 Billion per year. From 1964 to 1969, NASA spent a total of about $200 Billion (again, in today's money) on getting men on the Moon.

The research, design, development and testing of the hardware required to get to Mars and back would probably cost at least that much. Some of that research is being done by the probes on Mars right now. If humans want hardware that would allow them to safely land on Mars and live on Mars, then they need the data being collected by the robotic probes. NASA sent many unmanned probes to the moon (surface and orbit) to find out everything they can about the Moon before sending people.

Even the simplest life form if found on Europa will be awesome. I really hope the mission happens.

I never understood this, why officially announce that you're planning on officially announcing something specific? This is just as good as the announcement in spring isn't it??
Dear Dad, on thanksgiving holiday I am going to announce I got my girlfriend pregnant.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: EternalSolace

It is far more reasonable to sent probes. Just think about it:
1. you don't know what to expect
2. the super long journey would unnecessarily waste the lifespan of the astronauts
3. you don't need to put feet on the surface to study something
4. the mission control of nasa/esa/etc. actually is like the bridge of a spaceship, just less dangerous and far more healthy and comfortable


There is not a single good reason in my mind why they should send people. Do you have one?

Keep in mind that people who cry "Why another robot?! Put Man on another planet!" are not scientists, they just want to see something cool.

I wonder if they found jellyfish-like creatures on Europa if they would even tell us. I have a feeling we'll have to be gradually introduced into the idea of complex life existing off-world first.

For some reason the people making the decisions seem to think humans are incapable of grasping and dealing with the idea that we aren't alone in the universe. I seriously doubt a collapse of society would happen if we found some jellyfish on Europa.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
For some reason the people making the decisions seem to think humans are incapable of grasping and dealing with the idea that we aren't alone in the universe.

Where did you get that idea from? Not from that speculatory comissioned report from the 60s, I hope.

Scientists would love to anounce such groundbreaking findings, and I'm not aware of any directives from above to the contrary.

What an amazing view that would be. Pictures from the surface of Europa ,looking over the ice glaciers and in the distance you see Jupiter real close...

a reply to: wildespace

I have a feeling we've already made discoveries, and they haven't shared those yet. So, it makes me think that if they find anything else new, they probably won't disclose that either.

I'm of the firm belief that the world's best scientists don't operate in the open or in the public domain. Rather, these people are quickly realized and snatched up by world governments for secret research that the public never gets to see. I'd imagine that the "top" scientists we know about publicly are akin to the "B Team". They themselves might even fully believe they are the top people in their fields, as their competition is never allowed to publish anything in the public sector.

That's amazing considering how much smaller Europa is in size to Earth.

Floating in space about 390 million miles from earth, Europa is a remote ice ball that harbors a massive ocean underneath its surface. So massive, in fact, that scientists suspect Europa could have as much as two to three times more liquid water than Earth!

Good news indeed.

Maybe one day, we'll take billions more from our bloated defense budget and NSA budgets and pour it into NASA. Especially excited this year about the mission to Pluto that's getting closer and closer. It's good stuff.

With increased NASA budgets and a bigger role for outfits like SpaceX...we may get somewhere in space exploration before I die!

originally posted by: amazing
Especially excited this year about the mission to Pluto that's getting closer and closer. It's good stuff.

And Ceres.

Anyone know how long it will take to get there? also do they have a time window to launch it?.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: stirling

So much money and resources wasted and we haven't even had a human orbit Mars. If I'm not mistaken, Apollo 17 was the last lunar mission and it was in 1972. That makes 43 years now we've not even seen a human leave near earth orbit.

I really want to see NASA succeed, but not like this. Time, money, and effort needs to be in manned exploration. Not more satellites and telescopes.

One thing learned from the moon missions was that there's only so much productivity that can be accomplished by a couple of astronauts working on short shifts in a hostile environment. The Apollo missions, while great for the morale of the country and a stepping stone for future colonization, were a massive waste of resources just to gather some samples that could have been taken by a rover.

Rovers can move around and take samples 24 hours a day without food, water, medical care, risk of injury, etc.

Once NASA is confident that it can send people to other planets safely and enable them to actually DO something once they arrive, it will happen.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: wildespace

I'm of the firm belief that the world's best scientists don't operate in the open or in the public domain. Rather, these people are quickly realized and snatched up by world governments for secret research that the public never gets to see. I'd imagine that the "top" scientists we know about publicly are akin to the "B Team". They themselves might even fully believe they are the top people in their fields, as their competition is never allowed to publish anything in the public sector.

The problem is that 1) there would be plenty of evidence of such a brain drain and 2) science works best in the open. it would be hard for such "secret astrobiologists" to make headway on many things with huge interaction with their not so secret peers.

Likewise projects to learn more would be highly visible because they'd involve massive telescopes, etc. Kind hard to hide those from Google Earth.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Anyone know how long it will take to get there? also do they have a time window to launch it?.

It would take about a year to two years if sent at a speed similar to the New Horizons spacecraft (fastest spacecraft ever built) which will encounter Pluto this year.

New Horizons was launched in January of 2006 and encountered Jupiter in February of 2007.

The time period to launch will be sometime in the mid 2020s. It takes about 10 years from planning to launch so I'd say 2025 or so.

originally posted by: Asynchrony
That's amazing considering how much smaller Europa is in size to Earth.

Floating in space about 390 million miles from earth, Europa is a remote ice ball that harbors a massive ocean underneath its surface. So massive, in fact, that scientists suspect Europa could have as much as two to three times more liquid water than Earth!

It is but it also illustrates that the Earth contrary to conventional wisdom is actually quite a dry planet (another reason we should take care of our oceans and fresh water supplies).

It may seem like a very wet world but that's just a thin layer of water on top of the crust.

By volume Earth is mostly silica (sand) not water. We know that both Europa and Titan have more water by volume than the Earth. Here's a comparison:





We also know of a few exoplanets whose density suggests they are made up almost entirely of water.