malachi 2:3 - ewwww gross!

origi




Look, you have free will. You don't have to believe this stuff. You don't like it yet feel forced to attack it. Why is that?

If I think something is a lot of crap I leave it alone.

Realistically, a lot of us were brought up in a Christian, Jewish or Muslim (or whatever) culture and while we may not be religious now or might even be atheist, most of us came to that by working through our inherited religious background. This isn't as simple as "leave it alone." Many are interested in these subjects who have no beliefs, largely due to our cultural background. Let their viewpoint stand... if your faith is great it should make room for those still seeking or even questioning.

a reply to: rokkuman

Plenty of gross stuff in the old testament. Read the references to sacrificing animals (and humans) and how they killed the inhabitants of cities and towns. Not nice.

a reply to: igloo

Ask and you shall receive.

The passage is very much allegorical to show a thing, as was already explained. Yet, this passage is also prophetic. The passage itself is speaking to the priests who are not following God's commandments in how the represent HIS words to the people. These priests were not properly representing God's Word to the people. Because of this, God gave them a warning, which we see here in this passage.

Now, our "face" is what the world sees, it is our representation of ourselves to the world. You see people taking great pains to make that face look good even when, and usually most especially when, what is inside is far from being a beautiful thing.

Excrement is a thing which is nasty and unclean. It is the portion of any sacrifice that is cast out. God is telling the priests in an allegorical manner that their deeds, which are unclean, will be spread on their face.. ie: clearly shown to the world, so the world knows what they have done.

The priests of our day are Christians who are the one's who represent God to the world and tell God's word to the people, as it is written:

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.1 Peter 2:9

Christians are the descendants of the Levites and why it is the descendants being referred to here in this passage - because many have the same traits as the Levites spoken of in the passage.

The sacrifice of the Christian is of self, rather than animal sacrifice. As is it written:

Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God. Hebrews 13:16

I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. Romans 12:1-2

When we refuse to repent of our sins, we can neither properly represent God to the people, nor properly tell them HIS word, because sin is a barrier between us and God - and steeped in sin, the Christian can hear the voice of God no more than the sinner, so God's word becomes a thing misrepresented and little understood.

God tells us to proclaim and teach HIS word:

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." Matthew 28:19-20

God wants these priests to know, that improper representation and communication of HIS word is unacceptable and that there will come a day when HE will show the world who and what those priests really are, exactly what they withheld from the people and its unacceptability before God.

As it is written:

There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. Accordingly, whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in the inner rooms will be proclaimed upon the housetops.Luke 12:2-3

And then, once God has shown the unclean portions of their teachings, they will themselves be cast out because of their uncleanliness.. As it is written:

Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' Mathew 7:22-23

This is the allegorical meaning of this passage, and how it pertains to us today in the prophetic sense. If you have any questions feel free to ask. I will help you all I am able.

Generally when you see one verse in isolation like that Malachi 2:3, it is useful to go and read the entire passage to put in context and get the whole picture of what is going on. Instead of just reading Malachi 2:3 read all of Malachi 2.

“And now, you priests, this warning is for you. 2 If you do not listen, and if you do not resolve to honor my name,” says the Lord Almighty, “I will send a curse on you, and I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have already cursed them, because you have not resolved to honor me.

“Because of you I will rebuke your descendants[a]; I will smear on your faces the dung from your festival sacrifices, and you will be carried off with it. 4 And you will know that I have sent you this warning so that my covenant with Levi may continue,” says the Lord Almighty. 5 “My covenant was with him, a covenant of life and peace, and I gave them to him; this called for reverence and he revered me and stood in awe of my name. 6 True instruction was in his mouth and nothing false was found on his lips. He walked with me in peace and uprightness, and turned many from sin.

“For the lips of a priest ought to preserve knowledge, because he is the messenger of the Lord Almighty and people seek instruction from his mouth. 8 But you have turned from the way and by your teaching have caused many to stumble; you have violated the covenant with Levi,” says the Lord Almighty. 9 “So I have caused you to be despised and humiliated before all the people, because you have not followed my ways but have shown partiality in matters of the law.”

As you can see, God is sending a warning. The priests are not teaching the true word of the law to the people who depend on them to carry out that function. If the people cannot follow the Law in the OT, then they cannot find their way to God. So to have a priestly class that is knowingly fallen away and misleading them is a serious thing because it risks their walk with God.

In that sense, what warning is enough and what humiliation to people who do not do a duty that is of the utmost importance?

a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

Don't mess with what is sacred to me with just a lot of mud slinging. Valid criticism on an intellectual level is great, but all the nasty digs I will fight against and I have a right to when you are dissing what I care about deeply.

Why? Xtianity doesn't seem to mind messing with what is sacred to others. Destroying whole cultures, and their sacred writings. Seems some sects of Xtianity can dish it out, but can't take it.

The OP didn't say or do anything intentionally offensive to you, or any other Xtian, but you took him to task over which version of the verse he used. How petty.

a reply to: Klassified

Yet, there is a distinct different between a Christian, and someone who decides to put on the name. This thread is about those people, specifically. Misrepresenting HIS Word and leading people astray has long been done, but God will punish men for that.. HIS promises are true.

a reply to: Klassified

It is a somewhat valid criticism. The two words, while synonyms, also tend to be used differently. "Dung" and "excrement" have different connotations and shades of meaning. It is rare for dung to be used in reference to human feces and rare for excrement to be used for animal feces. Swap the words and you have changed the meaning of the verse quite a bit.

Different versions of the Bible do use different wording, so which one you read and draw your text from can create a very different impression.

That is why people who are serious about really delving into what the text says tend to learn how to read Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew, Latin and any other such languages that the most ancient Biblical and Torah texts can be written in so they can see for themselves what the oldest wording is and try to parse it out.

Otherwise, you get issues like this where the disingenuous and the doubting take single passages out of context in an attempt to create a narrative that may or may not exist.

a reply to: ketsuko

lol.. and here I thought # was #..

Its not about taking it out of context, it is people's inability to understand the allegory at first glance. Jesus spoke in parables. Jesus is God's Word, yet, people expect the rest of the bible to be spoken literally - prophecy even which was never literal, or there would have been 7 fat cows being eaten up by 7 skinny cows somewhere in Egypt in Pharaoh's day.

This is why teachers are helpful, to teach the meaning of the allegorical content. I would doubt it is questioned with ill intent in most cases, people are simply genuinely confused. There is no harm in that. There is only harm in intentional ignorance.

a reply to: ketsuko

It is a somewhat valid criticism. The two words, while synonyms, also tend to be used differently. "Dung" and "excrement" have different connotations and shades of meaning. It is rare for dung to be used in reference to human feces and rare for excrement to be used for animal feces. Swap the words and you have changed the meaning of the verse quite a bit.
Different versions of the Bible do use different wording, so which one you read and draw your text from can create a very different impression.

If I had authored this thread. I would expect to be taken to task. Most of the Xtians on ATS, know I know better. But I doubt the OP has any clue of the nuances in "scripture".

That is why people who are serious about really delving into what the text says tend to learn how to read Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew, Latin and any other such languages that the most ancient Biblical and Torah texts can be written in so they can see for themselves what the oldest wording is and try to parse it out.

I was one of those.

Otherwise, you get issues like this where the disingenuous and the doubting take single passages out of context in an attempt to create a narrative that may or may not exist.

I won't argue whether the OP was or wasn't trolling, but you and I both know, xtians themselves are probably the most guilty of all when it comes to taking single passages out of context. It is one of the reasons there are thousands of xtian sects. Very few xtians I've met in my life, during and after I was one, are as serious as those you mentioned above.

a reply to: rokkuman

Wait! There's more!

Ezekiel 4:12
And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight.

13 And the Lord said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them.

14 Then said I, Ah Lord God! behold, my soul hath not been polluted: for from my youth up even till now have I not eaten of that which dieth of itself, or is torn in pieces; neither came there abominable flesh into my mouth.

15 Then he said unto me, Lo, I have given thee cow's dung for man's dung, and thou shalt prepare thy bread therewith.

The only good that I can think of that might have come out of Ezekiel eating cow dung, is if the dung was laden with magic mushrooms, which grow out of cow dung, but not people dung!

In that case, I might be able to better understand Ezekiel's vision!

a reply to: windword
Good catch. That hadn't crossed my mind about those verses until now. Lol...

Magic indeed.

a reply to: Klassified

Is Jesus the bread of life?

John 6:35 says, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst

Who is doing the baking of the bread?

A prophet

Baking of the bread over human excrement shows who is doing the polluting of the Word of God - that Bread of Life..... humans are

what does this do to the Word?

Pollutes it and makes it a thing unclean..

so who now is the prophecy about? A.) False prophets..

Now read this again..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: OpinionatedB

LOL! I was just talking about pareidelia and how Christians see Jesus in anything and everything!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: windword

There is a difference between understanding the Word of God through God's word, and seeing Jesus in a piece of toast.

There is no toast here, only the prophetic Word of God.. which Jesus is.

originally posted by: windword
Ezekiel 4:12
And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight.

That's dung as fuel for burning.
He's prophesying, by acting out, a future state of the people, when they will be in such degradation that they don't have any other fuel.
A lot of Ezekiel's prophecy works by acting out.

It's easy to find things that sound odd if you take them out of context, in an old-fashioned translation, and make no attempt to understand what's going on, but it's not a very productive game.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Nope. The bread that Ezekiel ate was NOT Jesus. It was Ezekiel himself taking the punishment for Israel.

4 Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity.

5 For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.

6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

8 And, behold, I will lay bands upon thee, and thou shalt not turn thee from one side to another, till thou hast ended the days of thy siege.

9 Take thou also unto thee wheat, and barley, and beans, and lentiles, and millet, and fitches, and put them in one vessel, and make thee bread thereof, according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon thy side, three hundred and ninety days shalt thou eat thereof.

NOT JESUS

a reply to: DISRAELI

That's dung as fuel for burning.

I disagree. The dung is what defiled the bread.

And the Lord said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them.

14 Then said I, Ah Lord God! behold, my soul hath not been polluted: for from my youth up even till now have I not eaten of that which dieth of itself, or is torn in pieces; neither came there abominable flesh into my mouth.

15 Then he said unto me, Lo, I have given thee cow's dung for man's dung, and thou shalt prepare thy bread therewith.

Ezekiel begs God not to force him to eat bread defiled with human dung. So, God gives him bread defiled with cow dung instead.

a reply to: windword
You need to read a more modern translation.
The RSV says "you will bake it ON human dung", and again "ON which you may prepare your bread".
The dung is the fuel, and the barley cake is cooked by being placed directly on top (who's got cooking vessels when they are being dragged into exile?).
Yes, there is defilement, because there is direct contact between the dung and the food, but the dung is not being incorporated into the dish.

P.S. Google has just informed me that dried cow dung is a standard fuel in India even in modern times.

a reply to: windword

You cook something on a dung fire and there is definite involvement. So of course the bread is defiled.

Why do you think we use mesquite, hickory, apple and various other woods in the smoker? It's because of the flavor they impart, but no one actually thinks there IS wood in the food.

But in this case the food would be crap-flavored. Yum!

a reply to: rokkuman

It is not quite that bad.

God made them wash their faces with bill's poo water.