Russian supplied drones causing heavy casualties among Ukraininan troops.....

U.S. taking new look at giving arms to Ukraine forces: NYT


www.theguardian.com...

President Barack Obama’s administration is considering providing Ukrainian forces with defensive weapons and equipment in the face of a rebel offensive that has shattered a five-month truce, according to the New York Times.



This is going to provoke a full scale Russian invasion going all the way to Kiev.

Times are getting tough for the world it seems. Time to head to the woods !!

a reply to: victor7

Respectfully this is getting annoying. You make a post with a headline and then link to absolutely nothing but the generic yahho.com search / homepage.

Please provide a link directly to the article you are using.

a reply to: victor7

Your very niave this fight is far from over and the cost to Russia is incredibly high. Watch when Ukraine Decides to take this fight into Russia. If you back them into a corner and they believe they can't force the Russians out of ukraine there will be attacks in Russia itself. Remeber how porous the border is between the two. For the sake of Russian citizens they better hope for a peaceful resolution.

Putin has created an Afghanistan at his front door really don't think this is what he meant when he wanted to bring back the old soviet republic.

But if he's going to act up this couldn't work out better for the west he destroyed the Russian economy and got them in a conflict they can't win or afford to pay for.

a reply to: dragonridr

Russia did not provide weapons to Iraq when US invaded in 2003. But US is providing weapons to Kiev Junta which is shelling the civilians.

Wait until Russia starts to provide RPG-29s to Taliban and ISIS and then let's see the cost goes higher for whom.

About time to ship S-300s to Iran and Syria and give them enriched uranium along with required hard water and similar tech to give more than a headache to US and its interests in the region.

originally posted by: victor7
Russia did not provide weapons to Iraq when US invaded in 2003.

* - March 2003 - U.S. pressures Russia over arms sales to Iraq
* - Russian Arms Sales to Iraq Worry US
* - Russia to Probe Alleged Arms Sales to Iraq

Russian defense contractors did.

originally posted by: victor7
But US is providing weapons to Kiev Junta which is shelling the civilians.

We are providing defensive equipment - not offensive. That would include artillery locating radar.
Secondly since the Ukraine government is lawful and recognized by Russia its not a Junta. Constantly using the term incorrectly does not help your argument. For an example of a junta look at the rebel leadership. The OSCE review shows pro Russian shelled civilian areas. There are also reports of pro Russians using civilian areas to launch artillery against Kiev forces knowing full well a Reponses will cause civilian casualties.

originally posted by: victor7
Wait until Russia starts to provide RPG-29s to Taliban and ISIS and then let's see the cost goes higher for whom.

So you acknowledge Russia has an interest in arming individuals responsible for almost 2000 civilian casualties based solely on religious grounds. Do you even think before you type? What you just typed here would do nothing but cause Russia further international isolation.

Should I argue the position that the west should supply aid to Chechnya? Dagestan?

see the utter stupidity in that line of thought from both angles?

originally posted by: victor7
About time to ship S-300s to Iran and Syria and give them enriched uranium along with required hard water and similar tech to give more than a headache to US and its interests in the region.

Wont happen.. If it does it wont be present for long.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: dragonridr

Russia did not provide weapons to Iraq when US invaded in 2003. But US is providing weapons to Kiev Junta which is shelling the civilians.

Wait until Russia starts to provide RPG-29s to Taliban and ISIS and then let's see the cost goes higher for whom.

About time to ship S-300s to Iran and Syria and give them enriched uranium along with required hard water and similar tech to give more than a headache to US and its interests in the region.

If the US were supplying weapons this would be over already they could easily take out the Russian forces and artillery. So far all they are willing to provide is non lethal supplies. Russia is shipping artillery for use in civilian areas even shelling from Russia itself with no regard for civilian casualties I suggest you look at the UN reports. This is why Russia lost all support and most nations are against them.

No matter how you spin it no one is stupid enough to believe miners from Donbass have more equipment than many countries in Europe. Amazing they even exceed Ukraines capabilities in artillery and tanks. These rebels have equipment to shoot down military and sometimes civilian aircraft that many countries don't have.

Oddly these miners have advanced military training better equipment and even being paid for being there. We could argue they aren't Russian military but considering even Russians are talking about all the deaths of Russian troops well that argument is silly.

So I think anyone with half a brain can realize Russian troops are in Ukraine just like they were in Crimea. They did the same thing there those aren't our troops so what if the vehicles forgot to take off the Russian plates. Putin denied it the whole time than later admits he sent troops into crimea.

So ok he lied there but not now right he's suddenly a saint come on he's lying to Russians ad he consolidates power takes control of everything to make sure he can remain in power.

Watch there will be another Russian revolution to remove him his days are numbered as Russians start having problems feeding themselves. Betting the next protest will be huge and cause him to further Crack down on Russians freedom. Swe Putin isn't a fascist but he's learned from them create national spirit and scare them into giving up freedoms by fighting a fake enemy. Wait maybe he is??

a reply to: Xcathdra

Should I argue the position that the west should supply aid to Chechnya? Dagestan?

Please do so and repent later. You will be giving free weapons to be used against your boys in other places. With Russia helping Taliban and ISIS, not many Jihadist from Chechneya and area would want to fight Russia. Instead they will ship these weapons to places where your boys are facing off the rough elements.

News of more and modern weapons coming from Russia will encourage more fighters from around the world to travel and fight your militaries with much more passion and courage.

Wonder what difference Igla SAMs would have made in the Taliban theatres where mini ground battles were usually finished off by the F-16s or Helicopters.

Russia has been playing nice for long but not any long.

a reply to: dragonridr

Putin or no Putin, Russian policy on Ukraine will not change.

With each passing day, and with each drop of blood spilled, I see the issue becoming less and less solvable with a peaceful resolution. Russia continues to push armaments and troops into Eastern Ukraine. Kiev, meanwhile, is understandably resistant. They don't want their country taken piecemeal by an aggressive neighbor.

My only hope is that Russia comes to it's senses, sees all the bloodshed they're responsible for, and ends this madness.

I wonder what percentage of these "rebels" are foreign fighters...

I mean at one point Kiev was days away from taking the final rebel city and all of a sudden fresh men and technology show up in such quantities that Kiev is over whelmed. And now the rebels are bombing a nearly surrounded city killing civilians and nary a peep about innocent deaths from the fan boys here.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
I wonder what percentage of these "rebels" are foreign fighters...

I mean at one point Kiev was days away from taking the final rebel city and all of a sudden fresh men and technology show up in such quantities that Kiev is over whelmed. And now the rebels are bombing a nearly surrounded city killing civilians and nary a peep about innocent deaths from the fan boys here.

Civilian deaths are acceptable so long as it's not Kiev's Military that is causing them. They are martyrs willing to die for the cause of the brave, outnumbered, and outgunned rebels.

[Insert Eye-Rolling Here]

I hope Kiev Junta comes to its senses soon.

US is trying very hard to fuel the fire. The people dying in Ukraine on both the sides are ex-Soviet commies anyways.

But it is up to the Junta to decide what is good for their country and people. UAF should pull away from Novorossiayan provinces and end all the destruction and mess.

a reply to: Irishhaf

I wonder what percentage of these "rebels" are foreign fighters...

I mean at one point Kiev was days away from taking the final rebel city and all of a sudden fresh men and technology show up in such quantities that Kiev is over whelmed. And now the rebels are bombing a nearly surrounded city killing civilians and nary a peep about innocent deaths from the fan boys here

If you are really interested about micro details there is now english translated blog from the point of view of "rebels".
cassad-eng.livejournal.com...
They update daily, sometimes several articles in one day providing detailed information about the battles. I guess, by your comment that you only reading western MSM. Civilian casualties unfortunately is a normal way of the war in that particular instance. Both sides are using modern deadly artillery fire in the quantities not seen in Europe since WW2.

Ukranian Grad firing youtu.be...

a reply to: victor7

Wouldn't count on that his I position had already made some statements but can't say to much he's on house arrest. LIke anyone who defies heir Putin they end up on trial or in jail. Hitler would be proud of him.

originally posted by: victor7
I hope Kiev Junta comes to its senses soon.

US is trying very hard to fuel the fire. The people dying in Ukraine on both the sides are ex-Soviet commies anyways.

But it is up to the Junta to decide what is good for their country and people. UAF should pull away from Novorossiayan provinces and end all the destruction and mess.

So you think Ukraine should just be willing to give up its territory to Russia but Russia bombs people into submission when they threaten to keave??

a reply to: kitzik

I don't doubt both sides have done wrong, and with 18 yrs military time behind me I understand collateral damage.

I am just tired of the non-stop it's the cia/fbi/USA/Kiev/junta behind all the bad... And the rebels gave up 90% of their initial territory to lead them into a trap.

Russia is as involved if not more so right from the get go, and I'm sick of the apologists for Russia spamming every thread that remotely touches on eastern Europe spouting the same random junk that the USA boogeyman is coming for Russia.

It's gotten old... And your not making friends or changing minds spamming the same Russia talking points over and over again. (your in a generic no one particular person way)

a reply to: Irishhaf

Basic point is in towns where NAF is attacking they ask the residents to leave. The towns they are defending they do not encourage "out of town" trips that much.

End result is when UAF uses its artillery the civilian causalities are much high vrs NAF.

However, UAF has been using artillery indiscriminately and by alot. One of the motives of Kiev Junta is to destroy the infrastructure of the East and they are doing it with relish.

Also any NAF POWs in Junta custody are treated with torture and starvation. Forget about the medical attention. This is another savage fact about the losers.

Why are Junta Forces losing btw? They have more machines and men so what is the reason. The main reason is majority of their enlisted and conscript troops do not believe in this war. As soon as pressure increases they abandon positions and run or surrender. In one case, a Colonel asked his soldiers to flee or surrender so that he can go back to Kiev and throw application for a General's post that had opened up.

That is why National Guard and other Battalions were formed from volunteers who have proven to be more committed fighters. They are sponsored by big business parties and hence are 3x better equipped and taken care of. Nearly every member of the unit has head to toe Level IV body armor and advanced medical kits etc. Hence morale and commitment is much high.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: Irishhaf

Basic point is in towns where NAF is attacking they ask the residents to leave. The towns they are defending they do not encourage "out of town" trips that much.

End result is when UAF uses its artillery the civilian causalities are much high vrs NAF.

However, UAF has been using artillery indiscriminately and by alot. One of the motives of Kiev Junta is to destroy the infrastructure of the East and they are doing it with relish.

Also any NAF POWs in Junta custody are treated with torture and starvation. Forget about the medical attention. This is another savage fact about the losers.

Why are Junta Forces losing btw? They have more machines and men so what is the reason. The main reason is majority of their enlisted and conscript troops do not believe in this war. As soon as pressure increases they abandon positions and run or surrender. In one case, a Colonel asked his soldiers to flee or surrender so that he can go back to Kiev and throw application for a General's post that had opened up.

That is why National Guard and other Battalions were formed from volunteers who have proven to be more committed fighters. They are sponsored by big business parties and hence are 3x better equipped and taken care of. Nearly every member of the unit has head to toe Level IV body armor and advanced medical kits etc. Hence morale and commitment is much high.

What motivation would Kiev have to destroy the infrastructure of it's own country? They will be burdened with the cost of repairing/replacing that infrastructure once conflict ends.

a reply to: dragonridr

So you think Ukraine should just be willing to give up its territory to Russia but Russia bombs people into submission when they threaten to keave??

What is Russia? 2nd most power military on earth and most powerful nuclear force on the planet.

What is Ukraine? in comparison to Russia, not even 1/50th as strong. Military neglected for 23 years and hollowed by corruption in terms of equipment and training.

End logic..........the battlefield scenario and geopolitical case study of Russia on Checneya vrs Ukraine on Donbass does not fall into the same grouping.

I am sure the logical point has been made clear. Rest is for those EVIL minds who ignore the immense loss of lives, both soldiers and civilians, and keep on prodding for more war which Kiev Junta is losing constantly since August.

Russia had offered Ukraine a position in Customs Union and when this Union became a stronger market then collectively apply for the EU membership. What a nice scenario that would have been for people wanting to upgrade their standards of living and provide a notch better for their families.

Idiots could not wait for 2-3 years and started the Maidan and so on. SOBs wanted to send their females to Berlin and Paris to act as hookers while they clean the boots of the NWO types. SHAME !!

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

What motivation would Kiev have to destroy the infrastructure of it's own country? They will be burdened with the cost of repairing/replacing that infrastructure once conflict ends.

Who said Kiev Junta with NAZI rootings would have repaired the infrastructure in any scenario? They would have been held responsible for civil war and left on their own.

These bloodsuckers are vying to avenge the Stalin induced Holodomor on the ethnic Russians. As soon as Junta came to power, they abolished Russian as a language inside Ukraine. These EVIL idiots showed their true colors right from the start.