Russian supplied drones causing heavy casualties among Ukraininan troops.....

uatoday.tv...

The material for war is coming across the Ukrainian borders with regularity it seems....
The use of drones also may imply the use of Russian soldiers to operate them too IMHO.....
These nasty little critters are making the rebel artillery into a well oiled killing machine.....With the backbone of the rebel forces stiffened with professional troops of the Russian army.
It looks as if there will be no Ukrainian victory to speak of without putting some boots on the ground capable of dealing with the Rebel forces whose recent gains are pushing the UA troops out of one town after another as well as cutting off reinforcement or supply with artillery sighted by spotting drones.....

originally posted by: stirling
uatoday.tv...

It looks as if there will be no Ukrainian victory to speak of without putting some boots on the ground capable of dealing with the Rebel forces whose recent gains are pushing the UA troops out of one town after another as well as cutting off reinforcement or supply with artillery sighted by spotting drones.....

I think the result of this war will come down to what one would expect to happen when one group of people who are fighting for their country, battle another group that fight for money or because they are told to. Unless of course the west steps in and supports Ukraine. That wont happen since the requirement for evidence to convince governments to send troops is much higher than MSMs requirements to spread BS. The case for Ukraine will never be made, on the level.

That is extremely possible....I don't discount it.....
But boots on the ground could be from all kinds of other countries in the EU.....Many are sending arms there now....its a short hop to boots.....especially Ukraines closest neighbours......

originally posted by: stirling
That is extremely possible....I don't discount it.....
But boots on the ground could be from all kinds of other countries in the EU.....Many are sending arms there now....its a short hop to boots.....especially Ukraines closest neighbours......

It is going to look bad, whoever goes in. It could end up a massacre and for either side it is still Ukrainians dying in Ukraine. Whoever goes in, is going to be a contributing factor and have a serious PR nightmare.

I don't believe this have ever been about helping Ukraine, in fact I think this fight between Russia and Ukraine was the plan all along. If Russia rolls into Ukraine with tanks... even better.

.


If true, MSM & other mouthpiece outlets would be all over it.

Drones? Really.


I don't even. . . just read that link lol. (no offense)




[edit] wanna see a good read?
Ukraine chief of staff ‘thwarts Western allegations’ by admitting no combat with Russian troops

a reply to: stirling

You know what would be super-interesting: How would the reactions be, if say Germany and Switzerland would offer to send independant investigators and troops to protect them, to the Eastern-Ukraine? Everybody should agree, right? Since it is independant and just pro-Russian rebels and no officially supported national army killing there innocent people and causing loads of tensions between the Eastern and middle- Europeans, everybody should want someone to confirm that, right?

The Russian Army has troops in the Ukraine...and they are engaged in combat along side of the Rebels....
Theres no way past that elephant.....
The sophistication co ordination, and arms are current Russian issue....
I think the reports of dead Russian soldiers being buried in out of the way graveyards,and the complaints of Russian mothers are for real.....but maybe its western propaganda.....

a reply to: stirling

But the official version says otherwise and since it is still: "Innocent till proven guilty", all sides should seek an opportunity to end this military-mishap in the Ukraine, with all the sanctions and tensions, it is not nice for anyone and we need united forces to kick this ISIS-idiots where it hurts. But this half-conflict is a permanent backholder, because it basically is the potentially weaker second front line, if you really want to take the evil by the root, you have to take them all out: Hisbollah, Al-Quaida, Isis and all the other little #s. Problem is, Russia and China are supporting the ones and Europe and US the others. I forgot who's Sunni and who is Shiit. Could check, but I don't care enough, because that is the important point, it is not about religious opinions anymore, but serious genocide. And the Ukraine and Russia are connected, Lybia is a Russian ally, Iran is a Chinese ally, every diplomatic step is almost impossible by now, it is a mine-field.
So my approach would be "the easy way out" We make sure there is no hidden Russian frontline, in European territory, let go of the sanctions and reunited we fight the rabid dogs.

a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

If you are going to try and push the lie maybe you should include ALL info -

also from your source -

Commenting on Muzhenko’s statement, Galushko said that reporters were only allowed at the open part of the meeting. He said that later, during the closed part, the chief of general staff said that Russian units are “in the second tier.”

It is fairly obvious a bunch of civilian rebels would need extensive training to operate the Russian artillery and drones effectively as they seem to be doing....
Who else is laying the guns for them............... Russia.....
Who is commanding the rebel troops..??..my bet is Spetznatz....

a reply to: stirling

Everybody is thinking it, you said it

But just saying, the one who gets the respond to that suggestion, would be able to count another indicating evidence, of how willing Putin is to get to the bottom of it. And there has to be a solution. Most time is wasted while trying to gain some. Or what was it? People are dying but you can't blindly accuse another souvereign country of an undercover-act-of-war. Rise the pressure and the steam will show you the scrape...

originally posted by: stirling
It is fairly obvious a bunch of civilian rebels would need extensive training to operate the Russian artillery and drones effectively as they seem to be doing....
Who else is laying the guns for them............... Russia.....
Who is commanding the rebel troops..??..my bet is Spetznatz....

At the last UNSC meeting the topic of the rebels and their equipment came up by several of the ambassadors. They noted the amount of military equipment that the rebels have is larger than some of the smaller European nations militaries. Impressive for a group who is supposedly acting all by their lonesome.

Them miners in Dontesk run around in full combat gear, drive and operate tanks, Grads, Buk's!!! Now they have built drones that Ukraine doesn't even have and are spotting with them! Sure wouldn't want to mess with a miner from Eastern Ukraine!

It's such a joke just saying feels stupid. I don't know how all these Russian shills do it over and over, day after day.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

They already done that when they annexed Crimea.

originally posted by: stirling
It is fairly obvious a bunch of civilian rebels would need extensive training to operate the Russian artillery and drones effectively as they seem to be doing....
Who else is laying the guns for them............... Russia.....
Who is commanding the rebel troops..??..my bet is Spetznatz....

How long does it take to train a civilian into basics of warfare, 6 week to 3 months and that is in the standard scenario. A crash course in 4 weeks is very possible and especially if someone already has some experience. Russia has been training the rebels for long time now so standard Russian units are not required.

Specialists in various fields can always operate in the 2 or 3rd layers and using real time TV footage via drones etc. lots of finetuning orders can be given even while sitting 100s of miles away.

It is a matter of extreme sadness as to why Junta leadership is throwing "people" into the meat grinder. Strategically speaking, Debaltseve should have been forfeited by Ukrop to strengthen forces in other areas.

Ukraine Army needs to throw Junta out and declare peace with rebels and even give them independence and end this horror story for all the peoples in the area and the region.

Also, I have seen some FPV i.e. free pilot view videos of common $300 drone flown by kids on youtube. You can easily get GPS coordinates of where drone is flying and then approximate coordinates of area say 100 meters or 400 meters away. Then you can re adjust your artillery a bit and pummel that area with dozens of shells. This can be done within a minute to readjust and fire. However, the targeted artillery cannot really move "within a minute".

However, this applies to both the parties. As to how come rebels are able to use drones successfully and Ukrops not is the main question.

Although word out there is that Ukrops artillery is the one which is stopping the full frontal advance of the rebels. As soon as cut off is complete, they will start to run out of the ammo and then it will be the "start of the endgame". Somewhere I read that Debaltseve pocket is using 1 train load of artillery ammo each single day and that is beyond excessive for some force that is nearly encircled already. Once encirclement is complete it would be a matter of only 1-3 days before one of the defensive side walls falls and the pocket is shattered into further smaller bits.

originally posted by: victor7
Ukraine Army needs to throw Junta out and declare peace with rebels and even give them independence and end this horror story for all the peoples in the area and the region.

There is no Junta. Russia recognizes the government in Ukraine.

Here is the information confirming that -
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Xcathdra

Whatsoever! whatever group is in leadership in Kiev needs to leave. This group is proving EVIL for the people around them. These bloodsuckers need to vanish from the public life. These are warmongers who are hurting common people.

Hope that gets the message clear!

a reply to: victor7

The government was elected by the Ukrainian people so they don't need to go anywhere.

They are defending their nation from Russia and pro Russian rebels who currently, and illegally, occupy Ukrainian territory.

that's not my opinion - its a fact that is supported by the UN and its members. Even Belarus is threatening to walk away from Russia when Russia started limiting trade and refocusing internally. Apparently its a violation of the economic pact they are in. Russia screwed over Belarus to protect itself by violating the agreement.

Just like Russia did with the Budapest agreement.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Elected government when conducts actions that are detrimental to the people and country as a whole.........should be thrown out in a justified coup by army and people.

It has become a matter of basic practicality.

Once Debaltseve falls, expect some seismic changes in the political scene of Kiev.

Enough is enough, people are suffering immensely and this has to stop for the better of peoples on both the sides.

Army generals of Ukrops need to rise to the hour. A responsibility of an Army is to protect a nation from enemies both external and internal. Political leadership of Ukraine is bringing EVIL to Ukrainian people and they need to go right away!