Poland cruisin' for a bruisin'

While browsing RT, I read how Poland plans to begin selling weapons to Ukraine. Among the other veiled threats and rhetoric, I believe Poland is approaching a "red line" with Russia.

I can't imagine how Poland can possibly see this ending well for them. Unfortunately, due to their NATO membership, we'd all be dragged into this conflict. I'm not exactly keen on having my country drawn into a war, because human beings can't get along.

I don't suppose the US will ever leave NATO, and start minding our own business.

Anyhow, what do you guys think?

a reply to: JBurns

I would not blame Poland at all, if the Ukraine goes away then Russia is their new neighbor. I'm sure nobody forgets that Russia has invaded Poland more than once.

Several EU countries have started selling weapons to Ukraine already. It isn't highly published or talked about, but it is happening.

Poland doesn't have 'an inferiority complex'...it actually has a great memory. Russia joined with Hitler and carved up Poland at the beginning of WWII. The atrocities Russians committed prior to Germany attacking Russia are very well remembered in Poland. The complete and total domination of Poland by Russia after WWII is also very well remembered. Apparently they are much less remembered in North America.

BTW, how many countries does Russia have to invade and carve up to be an international problem? Moldova, Georgia and now Ukraine. They still have Kalliningrad from WWII as well as some Japanese islands. Obviously you don't care if Russia takes some of Poland as well. When does it become a problem in your mind?

a reply to: JBurns

I had not thought about Poland in all this until now. It sucks to be Poland when big countries get all riled up as they are always in the middle. If they do nothing and Russia walks all over Ukraine... what's to stop Russia from finding Russian speaking people in Poland and annex their land too. If they act strong now then they are throwing themselves right into the middle of the conflict and by extension NATO.

Heck, I'm an American but grew up in a Russian community and speak the language.. does that mean Russia can make a claim to my neighborhood in Philly?

a reply to: JBurns

I think Russia sells far more weapons than Poland does so I don't really see how they could complain.

They are very Russophobia so they act emotionally and yes they only make matters worse.
And now Donald Tusk a polish guy is the president of the EU as well..

Good on the Poles!
Aparently they have no trouble seeing Russias Ukrainian war for what it is......
maybe they could loan Ukrain some f16s as well....?

a reply to: JBurns

It needs to be said repeatedly on ATS: Middle Europe can thank the gods for NATO.

Otherwise, the Russian bear would have devoured them already years ago and would do it tomorrow if NATO seemed to be shirking its pledge.

(I don't know, it is a puzzle, did some of you forget history or are too young to learned it yet? Or maybe...er, nevermind.)

Poland, being part of the EU, is expected to do their part in the fight against the conquering of Ukraine. Putin is not even going to blink an eye in their direction. Right now. Putin's main concern at the moment is keeping the rebels fit enough to hold what they have long enough to make it through winter. In the spring, which is rapidly approaching, is when we are going to see this Ukraine thing come to a head. Putin is NOT going to make any moves against a NATO power. He is not stupid. Evil, egotistical, macho, all those things, yes, but stupid, no. Same reason why Obama has denied appeals from Poroshenko for lethal aid. Obama will EVER only agree to non-lethal aid because he cannot afford to be viewed as the aggressor. People wanna act like they know what is going in this Ukraine dispute but they get their information as propaganda from either side. The facts are this. The rebels are PRO Russian and Ukrainians are Pro Europe. Neither Russia or the EU are ACTUALLY fighting in this conflict. Yet the whole conflict IS Russia vs the EU. Don't forget people they are all Russian in Ukraine. Poland is a different story all together, and no, nobody has forgotten about the violations against Poland in the past. They will not be annexed in the same manner as Crimea. Invaded perhaps, But we will never see that card get played again. It's like running the statue of liberty play at the Superbowl. It might work once because no one saw it coming. (Being a peewee league play) But will NEVER be allowed a second time.

originally posted by: Kusinjo
...People wanna act like they know what is going in this Ukraine dispute but they get their information as propaganda from either side. The facts are this. ...

I love it when people say everyone doesn't know the truth, only me. Well thank all the Gods above we get to listen to you enlighten us at ATS!!!

a reply to: noeltrotsky

I will take your jab and raise you one. My post wasn't aimed at you directly, but I get the impression you took offense. That is fine, however, you didn't say I was wrong. You wanna tell me where I am wrong in what I said feel free. But I will consider your reply as a flame.

Having said that, and with permission from noeltrotsky, I will enlighten you with what I do know. I didn't say people don't know the truth, those were YOUR words. I said people get there information as propaganda. OP stated that RT (Russian Propaganda mainstream media) reports Poland plans to sell arms to Ukraine. I checked that article and others and found that NATO themselves are backing away from what they called a "Misunderstanding" regarding the sale of Polish arms to the Ukraine. But Polish defense minister Siemoniak admits Warsaw could sell arms to Ukraine separately for business purposes. Sounds to me like NATO is saying to Poland "Hey, do what you want but we are not going to be the ones to stamp the invoice." So tell me noeltrotsky. Should I throw my hands up and warn every Polish person I see to stop, and that their leaders are signing the worlds death notices? Or maybe Poland is so pissed off about past transgressions from Russia that they are ready to spark WW3 right now? Come on, dude!

I hope no one was offended by my post. I also hope no one took it personally.

In my opinion, EU/NATO is the aggressor (why? I have a debate proposed to answer this). Therefore, for NATO countries to supply lethal aid, is, IMO, not right.

As far as history goes, Russia did not invade Poland. The USSR did. Judging a nation based on choices their past leaders made is pointless. Do we regard Germans as Nazis?

Russia is trying to keep the wolves away from the door. If Putin wanted to actually invade Ukraine, he presumably would have when he annexed Crimea.

Just my 2c

.

Haha.

Poland.

originally posted by: Elton
a reply to: JBurns

I would not blame Poland at all, if the Ukraine goes away then Russia is their new neighbor. I'm sure nobody forgets that Russia has invaded Poland more than once.

.


What are you talking' about?

Russia has been THE ONLY ONE trying to defuse the situation. United States of Ukraine (empire of chaos) has been THE ONLY ONES spitting in the face of compromise.




Get it?

a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

Exactly!

Ukraine has shot down every peace proposal by Putin. They spit in the face of democracy everyday the coup imposed government exists.

How do they refuse to acknowledge PRD/PRL,when they, themselves, are coup imposed? Typical US of UA rhetoric.

Sorry Jburns. I wasn't offended by your post at all. I thought it a very relevant topic. I actually didn't direct my first comment at anyone in this thread, even if it was perceived otherwise. In fact, I am not offended by noeltrotsky either. I feel he may have jumped the gun there for second, in regards to my comment but no, no offense taken here.

I agree with you EU became the aggressors in this situation when they tried to buy Ukraine away from Russian interests. It was a bold move Putin made by reclaiming Crimea the way he did. Which is why I referenced the Statue of Liberty play. I was just like "Wow, did that just happen?" But people do seem to forget a lot of things when it isn't convenient to remember. Like how Kosovo held a referendum to become an independent nation. How quick did the western alliance accept that? Kosovo was literally stolen away from Serbia by Albanian occupiers. And we were Okay with that and shook their hands and welcomed them into our arms as another Western Ally. Don't get me wrong I am NO Russian sympathizer, but at least watch the game and recognize the moves when I see them. When you watch a sport you root for your team always. But when the opposing team catches a Hail Mary, you see it go "Wow, that sucked, but it was awesome." You get my meaning?

a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

Oh I have friends living in Poland and they welcome the USA troop increase in the region. They have no desire to be next door neighbors to Russia.

a reply to: JBurns

Ukraine has shot down every peace proposal by Putin. They spit in the face of democracy everyday the coup imposed government exists.

You ain't kidding:

- Ukraine contact group talks with pro-Russians canceled

- Donetsk, Lugansk representatives leaving Minsk, contact group meeting on Ukraine canceled



- Poroshenko rejected Putin’s artillery withdrawal plan, began assault - Kremlin


* This are the ones who receive assistance from the EU, the US and Canada:




LMAO, f*ckin’ Ukie army shells its OWN battalion (Ministry of Defence ordering killing of own troops - - happens everyday):

- Melnichuk: UAF fire at the "Aidar" battalion [ENG SUBS]



- Alexander Zakharchenko made appeal to the Ukrainian soldiers:
I ask to you to give up, you fight for wrong people, give up your weapons and go out, I guarantee you'll go to home alive.

originally posted by: Elton
a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

Oh I have friends living in Poland and they welcome the USA troop increase in the region. They have no desire to be next door neighbors to Russia.

LoL, no doubt. I'm sure you Polish like to be tuned-up by Americans. Enjoy it.

- when you're 'friends' Polish economy can NO LONGER sustain nato financial obligations - - what then?

. . . but 1st tell me what good it serves you?

a reply to: JBurns

I'd say the US and mid east allies have Poland by the short and curleys that they have no choice but to be the front man for the western powers that be.