" anti anesthetic-ers " where art thou ?

you - its a serious question

i am sick of reading about // listning to anti-vaccination idiots

but a recent panic with a friend who had a GA reaction [ she survived and appears to have no long term complications ]

got me thinking - modern anesthetics are not 100% safe

according to UK govt statistics - 5 fatalities occur / 1 million GA procedures [ general anesthetic ] [1]

the current fatality rate for vaccination complications = 1 death / million patients

which gets me wondering - where are the " anti - anesthetic " advocates . using anti-vax logic anesthetic is dangerous - right ?? but there doesnt seem to be any " anti - anasthetic " movement

i wonder why ???

[1] these deaths are ruled as adverse drug reactions - not anesthetist malpractice // equipment failure // surgical complications etc etc - which are all tabulated as seperate causes of death

a reply to: ignorant_ape
Great! I love it!

a reply to: ignorant_ape

I do not use anesthesia unless absolutely necessary. I also avoid opiates in general. There is no "anti-anesthesia" movement because people don't like pain more than they fear side effects.

I would say vaccinations have more media hype round them, people are "forced" into them and ultimately there is some feeling of suppression of choice. Hence why people kick off and form anti vax campaigns etc.

With GAs... well, nobody is going to say no to a GA when they are about to have their leg cut off*. They're definitely needed whereas vaccines, people believe they are not definitely needed.

*Or whenever one is required, I'm no doctor.

Double post, so I deleted and put this in its place:

Maybe vaccines are like religion? You have to take a leap of faith and put your trust in something you cannot see/experience first hand.

Im sorry, when I had my hip fused, it took 6 hours and lots of saws, screws, drills and plates. Not an option for no anesthetic.

I don't get the flu shot, choice.

Apples and oranges. cmon.

originally posted by: and14263

Maybe vaccines are like religion? You have to take a leap of faith and put your trust in something you cannot see/experience first hand.

Do you say the same about germ theory? I mean, you can't see germs with your own eyes, right? But nevertheless, there is a mountain of evidence for the massive benefits of mass vaccination. You would have to be willfully ignorant to think otherwise.

originally posted by: stosh64
Im sorry, when I had my hip fused, it took 6 hours and lots of saws, screws, drills and plates. Not an option for no anesthetic.

I don't get the flu shot, choice.

Apples and oranges. cmon.

There IS an option there though. You can certainly choose to undergo the procedure without GA, though you'd have to be insane to willingly accept that amount of pure, unbridled pain. It's an easy choice, but it's still a choice.

There is actually a push towards an alternative method of aneasthetics, but of course, it is not well know in western circles. It is quite well known in China and other countries.I am not going to go into a debate about the pros/cons of it, as I've had my share of attacks on these matters, but I will quote a bit (from an American article)and everybody can google it

THE POSSIBLE USE of an electrical current to produce surgical anesthesia has interested physicians for many years. In 1956 we began experimenting with animals, and it was eventually found that a current of 700 cycles and 35 milliamperes, employing about 25 volts, would induce acceptable general anesthesia. Thereafter operations of various types were performed on more than 60 dogs, and changes in blood gas values, blood pH, plasma catechol amine and corticoid levels, blood glucose content, and blood pressure and pulse rate were foll

jama.jamanetwork.com...

To come back to the OP, i think it has somethibg to do with the general ignorance of the population.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

I'm physically sick of listening to arrogant wannabe technocrats and automatons.

How ignorant do you have to be not to understand the amount of damage has been cause in the past by the lies and deceit of pharmaceutical corporations? The history of vaccines are rife with outright fraud. But now you trust them to inject newborns with virtually untested and unproved vaccines? FFS they have 100% legal immunity.

What does it take to wake some people up?

accidents, quality problems, and side effects from pharmaceuticals kill 225k/year in the US alone.

In a free society, you should have a choice to take any medical treatment or medication --unless you are in a Nazi concentration camp.

Last time I checked, surgery was voluntary or for a life threatening malfunction. 90% of childhood vaccines are intended to keep parents in factories working, not to ensure long term health. WTFU

originally posted by: GetHyped

originally posted by: and14263

Maybe vaccines are like religion? You have to take a leap of faith and put your trust in something you cannot see/experience first hand.

Do you say the same about germ theory? I mean, you can't see germs with your own eyes, right? But nevertheless, there is a mountain of evidence for the massive benefits of mass vaccination. You would have to be willfully ignorant to think otherwise.

I guess it's down to trusting the evidence and who gathers evidence surrounding vaccines. People don't trust the authorities who present the evidence for vaccines. I don't think that's willful ignorance.

As for germ theory.. I'm not really sure what that is, I'll do some reading. I did once see some germs/bacteria through a microscope hooked up to a screen so I know they exist

EDIT:A lot of the untrust comes from the fact that medicine is based on making money and not helping people.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: stosh64
Im sorry, when I had my hip fused, it took 6 hours and lots of saws, screws, drills and plates. Not an option for no anesthetic.

I don't get the flu shot, choice.

Apples and oranges. cmon.

There IS an option there though. You can certainly choose to undergo the procedure without GA, though you'd have to be insane to willingly accept that amount of pure, unbridled pain. It's an easy choice, but it's still a choice.

I love the alter reality at ATS, I am never disappointed with other peoples views!
You got a star for that response

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: stosh64
Im sorry, when I had my hip fused, it took 6 hours and lots of saws, screws, drills and plates. Not an option for no anesthetic.

I don't get the flu shot, choice.

Apples and oranges. cmon.

There IS an option there though. You can certainly choose to undergo the procedure without GA, though you'd have to be insane to willingly accept that amount of pure, unbridled pain. It's an easy choice, but it's still a choice.

I don't think you can choose.
No surgeon would perform an invasive procedure without any form of anaesthetic.
Aside from the obvious suffering, the patient would move around too much...

Therefore there is, in reality, no choice.

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: ignorant_ape

I'm physically sick of listening to arrogant wannabe technocrats and automatons.

How ignorant do you have to be not to understand the amount of damage has been cause in the past by the lies and deceit of pharmaceutical corporations? The history of vaccines are rife with outright fraud. But now you trust them to inject newborns with virtually untested and unproved vaccines? FFS they have 100% legal immunity.

What does it take to wake some people up?

accidents, quality problems, and side effects from pharmaceuticals kill 225k/year in the US alone.

In a free society, you should have a choice to take any medical treatment or medication --unless you are in a Nazi concentration camp.

Last time I checked, surgery was voluntary or for a life threatening malfunction. 90% of childhood vaccines are intended to keep parents in factories working, not to ensure long term health. WTFU

How ignorant do you have to be to not understand the damage caused by easily prevented diseases?
How ignorant are you to believe that vaccines are untested and unproven?

How ignorant are you to use the "Godwin" yet again?

But there is a choice. In Chinese culture there is acupuncture, and there are a lot of papers published about electric anaesthology.
a reply to: Pardon?

originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: stosh64
Im sorry, when I had my hip fused, it took 6 hours and lots of saws, screws, drills and plates. Not an option for no anesthetic.

I don't get the flu shot, choice.

Apples and oranges. cmon.

There IS an option there though. You can certainly choose to undergo the procedure without GA, though you'd have to be insane to willingly accept that amount of pure, unbridled pain. It's an easy choice, but it's still a choice.

I don't think you can choose.
No surgeon would perform an invasive procedure without any form of anaesthetic.
Aside from the obvious suffering, the patient would move around too much...

Therefore there is, in reality, no choice.

Sure there is. You could go to a country where GA isn't as readily available, or get the surgery done by an unlicensed surgeon. Or you could say that GA is against your religion. There's choices.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

Start a Facebook page and a hashtag, and they will come.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

Of coarse they are ruled as drug reactions and not malpractice.

Vaccines and anesthetics are not equatable.

It is like saying that ether is a virus

a reply to: deadeyedick

How exactly is a rare adverse reaction to a vaccine "malpractice"? You know the chances of such a reaction are less than 1 in a million, right?

a reply to: ignorant_ape

Two completely different things?