Images of Adam and Eve discovered in Paradise.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

I find this ancient illustrations and carvings fascinating, but I fail to see the connection to the Adam and Eve Christian believes.

It could mean many things.

a reply to: Madrusa

I don't have to have any meaningful qualifications to point out connecting a civilization in the Mediterranean to one in the Indus Valley as bunk.

originally posted by: Gorman91
a reply to: Madrusa

I don't have to have any meaningful qualifications to point out connecting a civilization in the Mediterranean to one in the Indus Valley as bunk.

But the words you choose to point out it is bunk with were written in an alphabetic code that originated in the indus valley. Imagine that.

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: Ploutonas

Also words like SATAN comes from Kronos or SET or SAT, or SETH, or Sabbaoth... And those who hated Zeus/DIAS in our modern history, about 2000 ago, they created the word " DIABOLO " and that means the life of Zeus (Life of DIAS ), humans today use both words but they reflect in 2 different entities Zeus and Kronos

I think Set/Satan link make a better fit to Egyptian etymologically as Set was the god of chaos and the wild his color red,perhaps the reasoning behind the saying and our image of the " red devil "
The Minoans as Sumerians, while undoubtedly Mesopotamian in some of their origins,it is more likely they were off-shoot from Anatolia Catal Hoyuk than from Sumer further east and south east in the gulf.

actually Satan is from the hebrew Ha Satan, it is a post or position held as as gods "prosecutor" or acusuer when being judged. Lucifer held the position of Ha Satan before being cast out of heaven. Christ is the new Ha Satan.

a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

No, they actually originated in Egypt. You're thinking math. We use an Indian number system. Our alphabet is Latin. The Latin comes from the Greek, which comes from Phoenician, which comes from Egyptian. No relationship to the Indus Valley.

originally posted by: Gorman91
a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

No, they actually originated in Egypt. You're thinking math. We use an Indian number system. Our alphabet is Latin. The Latin comes from the Greek, which comes from Phoenician, which comes from Egyptian. No relationship to the Indus Valley.

there is a link to the indus, as the phonetic alphabet grew out of linear A. The caananites were heavily influenced by trade with the minoans. The minoans got their governmental jumpstart from a group of akkadian exiles, after the empire fell to the gutians.The akkadians controlled trade routes from Dilmun to the coast of Lebanon, and we know that Dilmun had long standing trade relations with the dravidians of the indus valley.
There is a historian that makes a good argument that the phillistines were a multi ethnic group comprised of dravidians traders that settled on the med coast and possibly mycenean greeks.

a reply to: punkinworks10

Lookout for a book about to be published by Wim Borsboom on the true origins of the alphabet.

- ABRACADABRA - *

Magic or a Vestige of Phonetics?

ABRACADABRA has an interesting history and originally it had nothing to do with magic. Let's find out by looking at what its syllables are telling us: A-BRA-CA-DA-BRA…

1. Take note of that last syllable BRA, the word 'algebra' ends the same. 
People doing algebra were talking '-gebra', 'gibberish'. 
'Algebra' derives from the Persian 'al-jabr', which can mean constructing, restoring or putting things in order. Hence 'ABRACADA-BRA'. It was the linguistic science of putting sounds and their representative signs 'in order'. To the lay-person though it may have had to do with mysterious sounds or even sleight of hand. In Hebrew 'Aberah KeDaber' means 'someone is telling gibberish', but it could also mean dubious or 'creative' accounting. ** ('Aberah KeDaber' means 'someone is talking gibberish, making something up')

2. The vowel 'A' is the first letter of all alphabets and abugidas ***.

3. BRA may originally have been BA **** which is the second letter of the various alphabets that were constructed after the three palm leaves with Brāhmī characters scratched on them got put in the wrong order.

4. CA *, ***** is the third letter of the various alphabets that were constructed after the 'three-palm-leaves-confusion'.

5. DA is the fourth letter of the various alphabets that were constructed after the mix-up.

Conclusion:

A-BA-CA-DA-BRA was the name of the Science that taught the ABC's

Notes:

* Although 'abracadabra' is referenced in various dictionaries as a 2nd century CE incantation believed to have healing power, nothing substantial is explained about the word itself or its components, nor why just that word might have those specific powers.en.wikipedia.org...
Encyclopædia Britannica considered 'abracadabra' to be analogous to Abraxas - Greek ΑΒΡΑXAΣ or ABPAΞΑΣ. 
Abraxas may originally have been spelled Abrasax. 
The reason for the difference between the spelling of Abraxas and Abrasax is two-fold:
1. The a difference in pronouncing s and c sounds: the 'Centum versus Satem' language distribution: e.g. Kaiser - Ceasar
en.wikipedia.org...
2. The confusion between the Greek letters Sigma and Xi during Latin transliteration. 
en.wikipedia.org...

** 'Abacus' derives from the Greek 'abax' (notice the x) via the Hebrew 'abaq' (dust). The abacus was originally a board covered with dust or fine sand that could be written on or used for (ac)counting purposes, or... perhaps algebra.
www.etymonline.com...

*** Another name for a certain kind of alphabet is 'abugida'

**** In various European languages (Finish, Estonian, French, Dutch) 'abacadabra' (no 'r' in the second syllable) is used alongside 'abracadabra'.

***** About the X in ABRAXIS
The pronounciation of the Arabic sound (phoneme) ZA, SHA, or SHA(ne) eventually became represented in Western written scripts by an X. 
Because of the Centum/Satem conversion, that 'Z' or 'SH' like sound became an X after it was at first written as the Greek 'kai' or 'kappa', a character that looks very much like an X. 
And remember, the C pronounced as S or K is not uncommon, e.g. 'Kaiser Wilhelm' and 'Julius Ceasar'. 
Also watch the TED video:
www.ted.com...…/terry_moore_why_is_x_the_unknown.html
So, when considering this, and considering that BRA was originally BA, ABRAXIS may originally have been pronounced as ABAZI(s - a silent s) which is very close to the way ABC is pronounced in many Western languages.

www.facebook.com...

a reply to: punkinworks10

That just makes Indus languages a branch of the language family, not its source. It's kind of obvious western religions come from India. But not the writing system. That came from Egyptian.

a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

This doesn't really seem to point to the alphabet coming from the east. Just religious and mystic views.

a reply to: Gorman91


Seemingly obvious only to someone that doesn't know what they're talking about, the first written symbols and iconography originate in the Balkans 7,000 years ago, the clay figurines of Indus valley culture are part of a cultural phenomena that originates in that region.

The concept of the watery Abzu portal originated in the Balkans and is seen on these ceramics, the Fish-people are associated with emergence from these.







So from these developed the Sumerian equivalent;







And the Elamite;









Indus valley;







So you might want to consider why the well was the sacred centre in Indus valley cities such as Dholavira as well as the religious heart of Sumerian culture in terms of the Abzu of Eridu, but then again i suppose not as you seem to enjoy ignorance, but in considering that Western religion originated in India you dismiss the likes of Celtic religion and its Central European origins entirety and their related concepts of the sacred well as portal to the netherworld.

originally posted by: punkinworks10

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: Ploutonas

Also words like SATAN comes from Kronos or SET or SAT, or SETH, or Sabbaoth... And those who hated Zeus/DIAS in our modern history, about 2000 ago, they created the word " DIABOLO " and that means the life of Zeus (Life of DIAS ), humans today use both words but they reflect in 2 different entities Zeus and Kronos

I think Set/Satan link make a better fit to Egyptian etymologically as Set was the god of chaos and the wild his color red,perhaps the reasoning behind the saying and our image of the " red devil "
The Minoans as Sumerians, while undoubtedly Mesopotamian in some of their origins,it is more likely they were off-shoot from Anatolia Catal Hoyuk than from Sumer further east and south east in the gulf.

actually Satan is from the hebrew Ha Satan, it is a post or position held as as gods "prosecutor" or acusuer when being judged. Lucifer held the position of Ha Satan before being cast out of heaven. Christ is the new Ha Satan.

Hebrew is a copy paste from babylona and its from SAT-SATURN-KRONOS-SETH-SET-Sabbaoth, all these names is the same person and from that comes SATANISM, SATAN, Saturday, or Sabbath, etc etc etc.

Judaism honors sabbaoth, because yahobah/dragon took over, after him. Also SET-SAT-KRONOS brother is IAPETOS and if you search khazaar scripts and texts, egyptian and many other races across the world, you will find reference about IAPETIS, because he created them before Saturn rulership in the local skies. (according to stories), that is why, we also call them Iapetides.

today people learn that jews been slaves... but if you search actuall ancient books, jews never been slaves. I believe this is the reason, why EGYPT baned the movie exodous. This will help you understand the relation of Kronos-Sat-Saturn en.wikipedia.org... we dont have the word saturn in my language, we call him Kronos. You can also translate the hellenic wiki for

el.wikipedia.org...

Also in our mythology Zeus turn against Iapetos as well, but many believe that this is a false flag. Because we never had any problems with egyptians. We have zero reference for egyptians as enemies or Khazaars, Myths always represent the local solar system. But also many myths represent actual facts with a big lies inside them, from different interests. Zeus/DIAS came here when the titans f##$#up and he destroyed them, inprisoned them. TITAN war, Zeus also brought as an army the giants, against the titans.

In our books many philosophers represent Zeus as the son of Kronos/SAT, this is false flag, because in our other half books we have Zeus as the father of all gods. Kronos is reffered as the local sky rullership (Above Zeus is the global organism, the entire cosmos). And Zeus came after titans rebelled in the local solar system/skies. The 12 god religion and myths started after the cataclysmic event, after atlantis and in our books/referefences our gods departed just before Atlantis. So all myths and relligions created after cataclysmic event, have nothing to do with the real thing, at least not all of them. I may remind you Mythodea by Nasa at this point, why they didnt call Kronos if he is older and stronger than Zeus, or RA or Anou, but they invited DIAS/Zeus... there is a reason for it.

Also I quoted your message because gods "prosecutor" = Odyssey. The myth of Odysseas is all about it. Odyssey speaks about hummanity, the human race, that tries to find their way back home... To find their true identity, but also SATURN-SET-SAT is a gods "prosecutor", because he rebelled, he is a weak scum god, that he tries to progress through his crimes. He allied with the snakes and he tries to destroy the human race.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

The balkans are not the Indus Valley. Again, this points to Indus culture being a separate branch. Not the originator.

But I would say that you're probably wrong on the first characters coming from the Balkans that long ago, seeing as there seems no reason to assume characters needed to "originate" somewhere. Multiple independent developments are possible.

originally posted by: Spider879
Dravdian and Sumer are linked together that part is true, Elamite maybe a language isolate perhaps sharing features with both Dravidian and Afroasiatic which ultimately came from East Africa, Berber is also Afroasiatic but I can't draw any conclusion that they are the same people.

Well, we're all the same people, but in detail, I tend to agree with you. Winters doesn't have much support for his hypothesis. There is a lot of isotope analysis being carried out across the entire region, it will be a long time before the scope of that research provides sufficient data to make any firm conclusions. However, statistical analysis does point towards the Indus script being reflective of a phonic structure and there is a clear lineage with Tamil.

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
A good paper then that really demonstrates how in Dilmun there was a great merging of Indus Valley and Mesopotamian tradition through what they held in common, the spiral around the vertical axis is also most interesting above.

It is an exceptionally useful paper. The gulf cultural confluence, to facilitate trade, of the Mesopotamians, Magans and Indus cultures, clearly brought together, in Dilmun a real diverse merchantile settlement. The route was seemingly established first with the Magan as intermediaries between Mesopotamia and the Indus, but much later and by the time the seals in question were being made, Indus merchants had established, through Dilmun, direct trade.



The twins is common symbolism in the region gaining particular significance in later Persian culture, but it is a common enough motif and could be that it simply points to the farming origins. When shown in relation to a "mother" this becomes increasingly parallel to Shaher and Shalem, Ahura Mazda and Ahriman, Castor and Pollux, the twin sons born of the primordial mother. Also, in relation to the precession of the constellations around the pole stars as celestial axis, the twin sons of the Celtic tradition, Dylan and Lleu, their primordial mother was the "Goddess of the Star Wheel".

My favourite, from that paper, is these two giant twins...



The ancient equivalent to the Kray Twins perhaps???

originally posted by: Spider879
Keep in mind non of these folks are native to Ghana especially that area,these are folks from further up north in the savanna country.
score one more for ancient knowledge recently rediscovered and confirmed...alien knowledge or human lost skills .

The Dahomey, who are not too far away from the Dogon I think, have a great mythology, one of their stories is the People who Descended from the Sky.

Time as we know, doesn't travel in a straight line, and ideas, once released move over time and space at different rates. Some ideas, set in motion thousands of years ago, are only just achieving a full global spread now. The Dogon and Dahomey seem to represent peoples who, when trade was conducted overland, were an important part of the global distribution network. When trade routes changed, groups disappeared into obscurity, their contact with the wider world temporarily broken. I think that this is particularly true in Africa over the millenia.

originally posted by: Gorman91
But I would say that you're probably wrong on the first characters coming from the Balkans that long ago, seeing as there seems no reason to assume characters needed to "originate" somewhere. Multiple independent developments are possible.

Not just possible but highly likely. Written language is necessitated by a need to communicate over time and place. The earliest 'writings' or pictograms, communicate visions and divinations, transmission of information between realms of reality. In the case of the Balkans, (I presume we are talking the Tartaria tablets?) there are massive problems because the archaeologist is believed to have at least tampered with the tablets, even so, the context that they were found (if indeed they were found there) indicates that they were used as a divination device.

a reply to: Gorman91

Well yes i would be very cautious in suggesting a singular point of origin, but cultures across a very wide region appear to have had common interests and the Balkans appear to have been most influential in the development of the clay figurine.

It's probably more the case that there were numerous tributary regions that fed the greater metaphorical river called Indo-European civilization, that's the basis of their entire system principles of water management, the common denominator being that rain falls from above and that it can fall anywhere, and according to the Sumerians it was the function of the agricultural Deity Ninurta to channel and redirect this, whether an actual river or as metaphor.

So a case in point, the Toda of Southern India who i looked at here in theToda Mystery, according to my evaluation their iconography is very similar to the early Neolithic period of Anatolia, the region from which Danube culture itself emerged from, their cattle/buffalo cult is very similar to the cattle cult breeding huts of Southern Mesopotamia under Inanna, and they have the tradition of the first couple very closely related to the buffalo cult so very relevant to this thread, i could not accept they were entirely independent in origin, the similarities with Anatolia Neolithic culture are too pronounced.


a reply to: Anaana


Now there's a thing, as you see above i've just realized that the Toda tribe probably should be a big factor in this discussion in terms of parallel developments in India to what occured in the core Neolithic region and the expansions from that.

The Toda claim descent from the Pandavas, five brothers that held in common a beautiful wife Draupadi, five branches of the same family having commonality of descent from her, this is how the hand of Draupadi was won;

Now Drupada had long cherished the hope that Arjuna would become his daughter's husband. He never revealed his wish to any man, but ere he proclaimed the swayamvara of Draupadi, he thought of the great Pandava archer, and caused to be made a powerful bow which only a strong man could bend and string. For a target he had constructed a strange and curious device: a high pole was erected, and it was surmounted by a golden fish, which was poised above a swiftly-revolving wheel. Then Drupada issued a proclamation far and wide summoning the regents and princes of the world to the swayamvara. He said: "The man who will bend the bow and shoot an arrow through the wheel which will strike and bring down the golden fish shall obtain my daughter in marriage." None but a mighty archer who was Arjuna's equal could hope to win the beautiful Draupadi, for five arrows only were allowed to each competitor, and the fish must needs be struck on an eye to be brought down.

The Choice of Draupadi

So to marry that Goddess of the spinning Celestial wheel one needed to shoot out the eye of the fish constellation, Fomalhaut.

originally posted by: Kantzveldt

So a case in point, the Toda of Southern India who i looked at here in theToda Mystery, according to my evaluation their iconography is very similar to the early Neolithic period of Anatolia, the region from which Danube culture itself emerged from, their cattle/buffalo cult is very similar to the cattle cult breeding huts of Southern Mesopotamia under Inanna, and they have the tradition of the first couple very closely related to the buffalo cult so very relevant to this thread, i could not accept they were entirely independent in origin, the similarities with Anatolia Neolithic culture are too pronounced.

Similarities exist due to similarities of experience. There are highly significant geological boundaries that constrain movement, and these can be accurately used to understand human migrations and adaptation to resource conflict. However, if you consider what I mentioned previously about the way in which ideas are transmitted, and recognise that the greatest losses of land due to the Laurentia glacial melt, which was catastrophic it is believed, were along the coast of India and South-East Asia. It is believed that these areas, when flooded, displaced a huge population. I believe that while some made their way along the coast to the Indus Valley, others moved in land to higher ground. To me, under such consideration, it is not unlikely that over centuries, that movement of people eventually reached Anatolia. The Danube though, different situation, similar displacement experience, but representative of a much earlier human migration.

a reply to: Anaana

Perhaps that relates to earlier migration models, but with the Toda the closest Genetic comparison is with Greek Cypriots who would be a relatively isolated group that were part of the earliest Neolithic expansion into the Eastern Meditteranean so with the Toda it is not simply the case there is similarity between early Anatolian religious motifs and patterns but a close Genetic relationship.

According to Insertions/Deletions Polymorphism in Tribal Populations of Southern India and their possible Evolutionary Implications, Human Biology. Vol 75. No. 6 December 2003 by Vishwanathan, H., et al., the Toda & Kota have shared genes which separate them from the other Nilgiri Hill Tribes and share their closest affinity to the Greek Cypriots.

The missing link in all of this 1600 or 1800 superior Godlike beings...

The Todas are a small pastoral community living on the 7,000 Nilgiri Hills in South India. They believe in 1600 or 1800 superior godlike beings, the two most important being On and Teikirzi. On is the male god of Amnodr, the realm of the dead, and he created the Todas and their buffaloes. He was himself a dairyman. Teikirzi is a female deity and more important with the people, whom she once ruled when she lived in the Nilgiris and established Toda social and ceremonial laws.

Tribal religions

a reply to: Anaana

I really see no basis to create letters to communicate visions or some other mystic crap. Letters seem to have been created to communicate seasons and farmer's life. Phonetician and Semitic characters can roughly be translated as follows:

A : Aleph : Ox head
B : Beyt : Floor plan of a house
G : Gimel : A foot
D : Dalet : A door
H : Hey : A man with his arms raised
W : Waw : A peg or nail
Z : Zayin : A plow
Ch: Chet : A fence
T : Tet : A basket or net
Y: Yod : An arm
K : Kaph : A palm (receiving motion)
L : Lamed : A staph
M : Mem : Water
N : Nun : Seed
S : Samech : Bush, possibly a thorny one
guttural : Ayin : Eye
P : Pey : Mouth
Ts : Tsade : A path. Kinda looks like lightning
Q : Quph : A horizon
R : Resh : A head of a person
Sh : Shin : Teeth
T: Taw : Cross.

These charactes have nothing really mystic about them. They are the product of a hunter-gathering society on the very beginnings of farming. Tools to communicate to people how to plant, how to hunt, how to build, and how to live.