Thugged Out And The Asian Influence:

Why I broached this thread.
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Warrior King and I
Ok let me say this without giving away too much,one of my six hats before being read the riot act by a gang of six .including mother and father in-laws and a doc in toe to boot, about something called a workaholic, I was a producer and promoter of events,these events were typically reggae events...waddasuprise! but once in awhile I was asked to link with the Hip hop community bringing them here to Japan, since my sabbatical one of my ex-staffer and friend who wanted to fill my shoes so to speak but go in a slightly different direction, asked my opinion on the hardcore Asian American gangsta rap and thug culture,was it a good idea or not,and can I find out who is real and who is not , from a friend of a friend contact, it was through these communiques and the realization that something is changing in the deep dark underground of Hip hop called Gangsta or thug life ,I sometimes forget that this is the internet and not everyone will see the world as I see it,often due to cultural relevance .

originally posted by: Spider879
Why I broached this thread.

.
Warrior King and I
Ok let me say this without giving away too much,one of my six hats before being read the riot act by a gang of six .including mother and father in-laws and a doc in toe to boot, about something called a workaholic, I was a producer and promoter of events,these events were typically reggae events...waddasuprise! but once in awhile I was asked to link with the Hip hop community bringing them here to Japan, since my sabbatical one of my ex-staffer and friend who wanted to fill my shoes so to speak but go in a slightly different direction, asked my opinion on the hardcore Asian American gangsta rap and thug culture,was it a good idea or not,and can I find out who is real and who is not , from a friend of a friend contact, it was through these communiques and the realization that something is changing in the deep dark underground of Hip hop called Gangsta or thug life ,I sometimes forget that this is the internet and not everyone will see the world as I see it,often due to cultural relevance .

I get what your saying.

Gangsta rap and that look and that life style has been around since before NWA.

Now Hip Hop is a culture, and it has sub cultures.

Hip Hop has never ever ever been a "black" thing. It began as a New York thing. Hip Hop knows no color.

I watch old school movies like Wyld Syle, Beat Street, and Breakin.

In all those movies errybody is represented.

I would consider 3 jewish boys from NY to be some of the Godfathers of gangsta rap.

But like Hip Hop itself, those young jewish gangsta kids evolved.

Where i live, in New Mexico, we have had a large vietnamese population since the end of the vietnam war. I went to school with the first generation imigrants. It was tough for them, but eventually they assimilated.

They assimilated so well, some adopted the gangsta look and life style.

I never had a second thought about it.

To me they were and are just like every other American.

Just wanting to fit in.

And because the culture of Hip Hop is colored blind, we willingly accept them.


And im fine with that.

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

I have seen gangsters of every race no one is more ganster than another, stop looking at race and look at the actions of the individuals, because its not about what race they are, its thier actions that define them. As soon as you go into race it becomes a race baiting thread based on racism and moronic sterotypes.



I think all racists are the scum of the earth, and posts about various races black, asian, white or otherwise based on thier skin color and not based on the content of character dont belong on ATS, because its stupid and a false narrative, ill go ahead and flag this thread to the mods before it gets started.

Head scratching here,are there Gangsta with a certain swag?..yes or no, that particular swag,known as thugged-out started from one community AAs and influenced another,yes are no,do these ethnic Gangstas influenced each other through music and fashion and ideals.yes or no, do we see in music the outwards expressions and influence of the Asian component yes or no.

What is race baiting about this Thugged out is another term for Gangsta,fashion and ideals which included everyone but started from somewhere.

African Americans arent thugs and gansters, African Americans dont have swag like your saying, and there is nothing "Hip Hop" about African Americans. Swag, being a thug, being a ganster, and hip hop rapping can be done by anyone who practices the art form of doing it. Which is why I am saying your basing this thread on the false premise that Asian Americans are acting like African Americans. African Americans dont act like anything, the minute you lump races into sterotypes your wrong. We are all the same, behavior is learned and promoted by popular media nothing more than that. Forget the skin color of the rappers and look at the art form of rap in itself, because its not an African American thing, its just something promoted in the African American community.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Didn't African Americans start hip hop/rap though?

I still don't see much race baiting here except from those who keep saying it is.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: FormOfTheLord



Didn't African Americans start hip hop/rap though?



I still don't see much race baiting here except from those who keep saying it is.

Just do a little research before you start making sterotypical comments like African Americans started rap music.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

How was I making a stereotypical comment? Really now, not everything is racist/prejudice.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: FormOfTheLord



How was I making a stereotypical comment? Really now, not everything is racist/prejudice.

Dude you just said African Americans started rap its a sterotype based on ignorance. Like I said do just a little research before you start making false statements like African Americans started rap it makes you look uninformed to say the least.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

It was a question. You see racism everywhere.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: FormOfTheLord



It was a question. You see racism everywhere.

Flyting is a ritual, poetic exchange of insults practiced mainly between the 5th and 16th centuries. The root is the Old English word flītan meaning quarrel (from Old Norse word flyta meaning provocation). Examples of flyting are found throughout Norse, Anglo-Saxon and Medieval literature involving both historical and mythological figures. The exchanges would become extremely provocative, often involving accusations of cowardice or sexual perversion.

Norse literature contains stories of the gods flyting. For example in Lokasenna the god Loki insults the other gods in the hall of Ægir and the poem Hárbarðsljóð in which Hárbarðr (generally considered to be Odin in disguise) engages in flyting with Thor.

In the confrontation of Beowulf and Unferð in the poem Beowulf, flytings were used as either a prelude to battle or as a form of combat in their own right.

In Anglo-Saxon England, flyting would take place in a feasting hall. The winner would be decided by the reactions of those watching the exchange. The winner would drink a large cup of beer or mead in victory, then invite the loser to drink as well.

The 13th century poem The Owl and the Nightingale and Geoffrey Chaucer's Parlement of Foules contain elements of flyting.

Flyting became public entertainment in Scotland in the 15th and 16th centuries where makars would engage in verbal contests of provocative, often sexual and scatological but highly poetic abuse. Flyting was permitted despite the fact that the penalty for profanities in public was a fine of 20 shillings (over £300 in 2015 prices) for a lord or a whipping for servant. James IV and James V encouraged "court flyting" between poets for their entertainment and occasionally engaged with them. The Flyting of Dumbar and Kennedie records a contest between William Dunbar and Walter Kennedy in front of James IV, which includes the earliest recorded use of the word # as a personal insult. In 1536 the poet Sir David Lyndsay composed a ribald 60 line flyte to James V after the King demanded a response to a flyte.

Flytings appear in several of William Shakespeare's plays. Margaret Galway analysed 13 comic flytings and several other ritual exchanges in the tragedies. Flytings also appear in the Nicholas Udall's Ralph Roister Doister and John Still' Gammer Gurton's Needle from the same era.

Similar practices[edit]Hilary Mackie has detected in the Iliad a consistent differentiation between representations in Greek of Achaean and Trojan speech, where Achaeans repeatedly engage in public, ritualized abuse: "Achaeans are proficient at blame, while Trojans perform praise poetry."

Taunting songs are present in the Inuit culture, among many others. Flyting can also be found in Arabic poetry in a popular form called naqa'id, as well as the competitive verses of Japanese Haikai.

Echoes of the genre continue into modern poetry. Hugh MacDiarmid's poem A Drunk Man Looks at the Thistle, for example, has many passages of flyting in which the poet's opponent is, in effect, the rest of humanity.

Flyting is similar in both form and function to the modern practice of freestyle battles between rappers and the historic practice of the dozens.

It was a question and I gave you an answer, just do a little research before you make ignorant statements. Are you still sticking with your false statement about African Americans creating rap? Because its not the least bit true. I see ignorant statements that need denying, because they are ignorant and uninformed statements by someone who hasnt been properly educated on the orgins of rap. Perpetuating a false narrative like African Americans are thugs, have swag, created rap or any other ignorant drivel needs to be flat out denied because its false. Those things are learned behaviors, and yes its racist to say anyone based on thier skin color would have some learned trait.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

African Americans arent thugs and gansters, African Americans dont have swag like your saying, and there is nothing "Hip Hop" about African Americans. Swag, being a thug, being a gangster, and hip hop rapping can be done by anyone who practices the art form of doing it. Which is why I am saying your basing this thread on the false premise that Asian Americans are acting like African Americans. African Americans dont act like anything, the minute you lump races into sterotypes your wrong. We are all the same, behavior is learned and promoted by popular media nothing more than that. Forget the skin color of the rappers and look at the art form of rap in itself, because its not an African American thing, its just something promoted in the African American community.

Who the heck said AAs are thugs and Gangsters, you are reading into the thread stuff simply not said. the art form known as hiphop came out of AA and Latino communities, matter of fact the tradition of speaking over the mic to music was a Jamaican thing called toasting,most of the early hiphop artist were in fact second generation Jamaican kids from the Bronx , Dance hall and Hiphop are cousins, the Latinos added their bit with Break dancing through something similar to what is known as Capoeira a form of martial art disguised as a dance, practiced in Brazil but ultimately traced back to Angola.
Your examples of medieval rap do not come from the same line Hiphop came from, prudish Victorian era would have killed that.
In any case Gangsta Rap is a subculture of Hip Hop,it's values and mores are different,others may enjoy it but to but it was the least democratic of hiphop, barriers would eventually break down however and the last group to break ground in that form of musical gangsta expression are Asian Americans.

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

African Americans arent thugs and gansters, African Americans dont have swag like your saying, and there is nothing "Hip Hop" about African Americans. Swag, being a thug, being a gangster, and hip hop rapping can be done by anyone who practices the art form of doing it. Which is why I am saying your basing this thread on the false premise that Asian Americans are acting like African Americans. African Americans dont act like anything, the minute you lump races into sterotypes your wrong. We are all the same, behavior is learned and promoted by popular media nothing more than that. Forget the skin color of the rappers and look at the art form of rap in itself, because its not an African American thing, its just something promoted in the African American community.

Who the heck said AAs are thugs and Gangsters, you are reading into the thread stuff simply not said. the art form known as hiphop came out of AA and Latino communities, matter of fact the tradition of speaking over the mic to music was a Jamaican thing called toasting,most of the early hiphop artist were in fact second generation Jamaican kids from the Bronx , Dance hall and Hiphop are cousins, the Latinos added their bit with Break dancing through something similar to what is known as Capoeira a form of martial art disguised as a dance practiced in Brazil but ultimately traced back to Angola.

Your examples of medieval rap do not come from the same line Hiphop came from, prudish Victorian era would have killed that.

In any case Gangsta Rap is a subculture of Hip Hop,it's values and mores are different,others may enjoy it but to but it was the least democratic of hiphop, barriers would eventually break down however and the last group to break ground in that form of musical gangsta expression are Asian Americans.

Its a learned trait and has nothing to do with skin color period.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Look, I asked a question because I wanted to know. Whatever your game is it's just ridiculous. You obviously can't discuss this topic without screaming racism, grow up.

In short....yes there are some Asians who want to be n***as too.

The poisonous influence of gangsta rap can effect some portion of just about any culture it's exposed to.

beastie boys aren't gangsta rappers

Yakuza aren't Asian Boyz but both are criminals

Gangsta rap as a musical product developed and was promoted to, by and within the Black, and to some extent, Hispanic urban communities.

This op isn't race baiting, just pointing out a lesser known subculture IMHO

battle rap( or flyting)can be gangsta but it's still not the same product as gangsta rap. I doubt those flyting sought to portray themselves as thugs which is a specific intention of gangsta rap

hard-copy.co.uk...
Rap battles are an evolution of ‘flyting’, the ancient Scottish art of exchanging poetic insults for entertainment or to settle a quarrel.

Professor Ferenc Szasz, a History professor at University of New Mexico who specialises in the cultural impact of Scotland on the Western world, published a study on the historical context of Robert Burns.

Szasz claims that the tradition of flyting was exported to the US by Scottish slave owners, where the practice was adopted and developed among the slave population.

Flyting was a form of public entertainment in 15th and 16th century Scotland, often described as verbal jousting. The battlers themselves were called Makars.

“The Scots have a lengthy tradition of flyting – intense verbal jousting, often laced with vulgarity, that is similar to what one finds among contemporary inner-city African-American youth,” explains Szasz.

“Both cultures accord high marks to satire. The skilled use of satire takes this verbal jousting to its ultimate level – one step short of a fist fight.”

The Flyting Of Dunbar And Kennedy is the most famous recorded joust, in which two Makars spit obscene rhymes at each other before the Court of King James IV. It has been described by historians as “just over 500 lines of filth”. The Dunbar Flyting also includes the first recorded use of the word ‘#’ as a personal insult.

Professor Szasz points to an American civil war poem, printed in 1861, as the first example of Flyting in the US.

Professor Willie Ruff of Yale agrees that African American music traditions were heavily influenced by Scottish culture.

“Two people engage in ritual verbal duelling and the winner has the last word in the argument,” he says, by way of comparison, “With the loser falling conspicuously silent.”

Flyting isn’t dead though – far from it. The Scottish rap scene continues to grow, with acts like Hector Bizerk now breaking into the mainstream. Here are a couple of fine examples of modern day flyting.

The tradition of flyting/rap was exported to the US by Scottish slave owners, where the practice was adopted and developed among the slave population. Various slaves picked it up from the Scottish slave owners, has no orgins in African Americans at all.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: FormOfTheLord



Look, I asked a question because I wanted to know. Whatever your game is it's just ridiculous. You obviously can't discuss this topic without screaming racism, grow up.

I am putting forth facts which deny ignorance perpetuated like what you said before about African Americans being the originators of rap. You obviously cant have a conversation about rap music without saying ignorant drivel like African Americans started rap music.

The orgins of rap are in fact European did that burst your bubble somehow?

Rap music has nothing to do with race period.

Rap can be done by any race that puts forth some effort and practice.

As to thugs and gansters, they come from every race, and learned criminal behavior have nothing to do with race at all.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Exactly what is the point of this now? To be honest, you're the race baiting one in this thread, not the OP.

"He asked if African Americans started rap! Obvious racist!" It doesn't work that way.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: FormOfTheLord



Exactly what is the point of this now? To be honest, you're the race baiting one in this thread, not the OP.



"He asked if African Americans started rap! Obvious racist!" It doesn't work that way.

No I am the one saying race has nothing to do with it, yet more ignornce from you. You clearly cant have a discussion about rap music without making ignorant inaccurate statements like your last one.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

I still don't know what you're going on about. Do you understand the difference between a statement and a question?

Originally I asked if African Americans created rap, it wasn't a statement. Then you started accusing me of racism for god only knows but it's really stupid.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: FormOfTheLord



I still don't know what you're going on about. Do you understand the difference between a statement and a question?



Originally I asked if African Americans created rap, it wasn't a statement. Then you started accusing me of racism for god only knows but it's really stupid.

Here is another statement:
Barrack Obama is the president right?

No you made a statment that African Americans started rap, then put a question mark after it with a "?" to to state dont you agree with me. Which isnt how you ask a question, you were making a statement.

Not saying your a racist, but I am saying you should do some research before you make ignorant statements.

Here is your quote:

Didn't African Americans start hip hop/rap though?

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Dude it's a question. Enough with the nonsense.