How to Bog Down Russia in Crimea and Ukraine - All Ideas Welcome!

a reply to: Mehmet666Heineken

Afghanistan where the US funded&armed the group from bin laden to fight Russia which was fighting terrorism in Afghanistan in 1979 which so then backfired in 2001 (so it seems).
And nothing is solved there right now, you don't have less terrorists or is there any less risk right now for a terrorist attack on US soil then before 9-11, perhaps even more now.
Saddam was like a dog keeper, they removed him, now the dogs are on the loose and many Iraqi police which were trained and armed (costing €150.000 for each trained police officer) are now fighting for ISIS.
Libya was a pretty nice country (&again removing a leader), now utterly destroyed and again those fighting who where funded by NATO also many are now with ISIS.
Same with Syria, those funded to fight Assad by Nato also many now with ISIS.
Basically out of the chaos ISIS was created!

But Let’s tick them off: Iran (1980, 1987-1988), Libya (1981, 1986, 1989, 2011), Lebanon (1983), Kuwait (1991), Iraq (1991-2011, 2014-), Somalia (1992-1993, 2007-), Bosnia (1995), Saudi Arabia (1991, 1996), Afghanistan (1998, 2001-), Sudan (1998), Kosovo (1999), Yemen (2000, 2002-), Pakistan (2004-) and now Syria. Whew.

a reply to: Mehmet666Heineken

At least all of the first three, Mehmet. Let them stay...
because no army in history ever did a successful occupation.
They will be either assimilated or removed by attrition.

And here I thought your thread was actually going to be about "How to Bog Down Russia in Crimea and Ukraine" and not the constant back and forth bickering seen in ALL other threads that involve Ukraine. Anyhow . . . on to my idea on the matter . . .

Bring down oil prices . . . check.

Befriend Cuba . . . check.

Push for UN-Peacekeepers to monitor any new ceasefire agreements . . . then ask the Russians why they would veto such a plan. But in the off chance they do not veto this Mr. Putin will have a way out and Ukraine a chance to stabilize.

Then we could declare world peace! Everyone then loves and respects one another as we are all one big happy Earthling family that could put our efforts into bettering mankind's condition and exploring the universe rather than killing each other . . . not going to happen! So on to the next . . .

Directly sanction the Russian government until they pull out of Ukraine entirely . . . and yes this includes the Crimea cutout (. . . it is part of Ukraine after all). And when that fails . . .

Rebuild forces throughout NATO countries.

Directly and openly arm the Ukrainian government.

Get ready for WWIII and kiss humanity's butt goodbye unfortunately . . . unless in the off chance that aliens decide to intervene and save us all from ourselves

How about we send people that fan the flames of war like keyboard warriors, to work camps to rebuild war torn areas until they stop trolling for war.

Its really a sad day to see so many who are so anxious to see others die.

What we need is world peace not world war.

a reply to: Plugin

Afghanistan where the US funded&armed the group from bin laden to fight Russia which was fighting terrorism in Afghanistan in 1979 which so then backfired in 2001 (so it seems).

I can clearly tell you are not an expert in this field, and I ask myself constantly why people with little knowledge or expertise keep regurgitating the same wrong information over and over.

The United States had a very hands off approach in Afghanistan. Every dollar and every stinger missile sent to the "Mujahideen" was through Pakistan. Throughout this time, Pakistan was funnelling what was supposed to go to the entire resistance, to a few warlords that would later become the Taliban. The "Mujahideen" were always engaging each other when not fighting the Russians. Later in 1989 after the commie withdrawal they formally splintered into two groups, Taliban and Northern Alliance (NA).

The United States along with MUCH of the anti-communist world sent material and financial aid to the Afghans via Pakistan. Yet it seems Pakistan, UAE and Saudi Arabia had their own plans (Taliban and Osama related plans).

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
How about we send people that fan the flames of war like keyboard warriors, to work camps to rebuild war torn areas until they stop trolling for war.

Its really a sad day to see so many who are so anxious to see others die.

What we need is world peace not world war.

Why don't you volunteer yourself first? How do you know I don't already spend my time and money helping people? It's wrong for me to propagate the defense of harassed and persecuted people? Ostrich syndrome is clear in this one.

a reply to: nonnez

Excellent post! My intent was for that to happen but as you can see from page one the thread was hijacked by pro Russian sentiments. They should start their own threads if they want to voice their support of the commies there.

a reply to: derfreebie

I agree with your sentiments defreebie!

The Tatars were forcibly expelled from Russia after long bitter wars with the land stealing Russians. To me I think they would be very reluctant to mount a campaign against the occupation without sound backing from the Ukrainian armed forces, and political support from the outside world. I have seen a lot of media reports highlighting the Crimean Tatar situation but it's always been on page 10 instead of page 1.

originally posted by: Mehmet666Heineken
a reply to: Plugin

Afghanistan where the US funded&armed the group from bin laden to fight Russia which was fighting terrorism in Afghanistan in 1979 which so then backfired in 2001 (so it seems).

I can clearly tell you are not an expert in this field, and I ask myself constantly why people with little knowledge or expertise keep regurgitating the same wrong information over and over.

The United States had a very hands off approach in Afghanistan. Every dollar and every stinger missile sent to the "Mujahideen" was through Pakistan. Throughout this time, Pakistan was funnelling what was supposed to go to the entire resistance, to a few warlords that would later become the Taliban. The "Mujahideen" were always engaging each other when not fighting the Russians. Later in 1989 after the commie withdrawal they formally splintered into two groups, Taliban and Northern Alliance (NA).

The United States along with MUCH of the anti-communist world sent material and financial aid to the Afghans via Pakistan. Yet it seems Pakistan, UAE and Saudi Arabia had their own plans (Taliban and Osama related plans).

Very hand off approach?

newsone.com...

During in the 1970s, when the Russia was the biggest threat to America and radical Islam was not as a concern of the USA’s, the USA began funding and training Islamic militants to fight our Russian enemies in Afghanistan.
These militants, known as the mujahideen would rebel the Russians out of Afghanistan and later become the Taliban, Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood.
One of the most prominent members of he mujahideen was a wealthy son of a Saudi Arabian businessman named Osama Bin Laden.

After Ronald Reagan was elected in 1981, U.S. funding of the mujahideen increased significantly and CIA Paramilitary Officers played a big role in training, arming and sometimes even leading mujahideen forces.
The CIA trained the mujahideen in many of the tactics Al Qaeda is known for today, such as car bombs, assassinations and other acts that would be considered terrorism today.
The U.S.A. would fund Gulbuddin Hekmatyar a mujahideen leader and alleged heroin dealer who worked closely with Bin Laden. Hekmaytyar and his political party/paramilitary group would receive more than $600 million from the USA. Author, Alfred McCoy, would claim that the CIA supported Hekmatyar in his illicit heroin trade to allow him to fund the mujahideen.Like Bin Laden, Hekmatyar has also become an enemy of the U.S., waging a war against coalition forces in Afghanistan after 2001.
America must learn from the foreign policy mistakes of our past. These mistakes have lead to the creation of our enemies, such as Saddam Hussein, Manuel Noreaga, and Osama Bin Laden. The enemy of our enemy is not always our friend, most often they become our enemies too. As America gives aid to rebels in Libya and other countries we must be cautious not to create another Bin Laden.

But this is a bit off topic anyways.

originally posted by: Mehmet666Heineken

Why is it better to not be allies with Russia - in a perfect world, it would be great. We were headed along this path for quite a while UNTIL RUSSIA invaded Georgia. They don't want to be allies, so the better question would be, why does Russia not want to be NATO's ally?

I think it was the US invading the middle east under false pretence, pre dated Georgia. But sure, blame Russia for one of the biggest frauds in the planets history - the war on terror.

@Plugin

^ That article is total hogwash (CIA "paramilitary" officers leading the Mujahideen ), wouldn't be surprised if it was disseminated via Moscow. They again made the stupid mistake you did, and assumed that the Mujahideen all became the Taliban later. No they didn't what about the Northern Alliance fighting them and then later leading US special forces against the Taliban in 2001 ? More wreckless journalism trying to malign the United States. No one blames the Soviet Union aka Russia for invading Afghanistan and causing all this terrorism? It's the rest of the world's fault for not bowing to their wishes, as is the case here with Ukraine?

a reply to: MALBOSIA

False pretenses or not, Saddam Hussein was a barbarian. Iraqi society was one big Hussein family dungeon/playground. Georgia is a democratically elected and peaceful country that has hardly made as much as a fart on the world stage. Are you saying it's okay for Russia to invade peaceful countries because the US and the rest of the world engage dictators?

originally posted by: Mehmet666Heineken

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

How about we send people that fan the flames of war like keyboard warriors, to work camps to rebuild war torn areas until they stop trolling for war.



Its really a sad day to see so many who are so anxious to see others die.



What we need is world peace not world war.

Why don't you volunteer yourself first? How do you know I don't already spend my time and money helping people? It's wrong for me to propagate the defense of harassed and persecuted people? Ostrich syndrome is clear in this one.

You helping people? Bah you wouldnt know help if god was standing before you. But perhaps you will one day change your ways for the better.

Whats clear about war mongers is they are always trying to get others to go off and fight a war for them, while they do nothing more than spout nonsense fanning the flames of division and hate.

Dont be so anxious to see more death, we will all die in our own time, I suggest you use yours more wisely than trying to convince others that a useless war is worth fighting for.

Some are all talk while others are all action, you are clearly the former not the latter.

And yes you are wrong your perpetuating the evils of war just like you work for the devil of death, I would love to hear you try and perpetuate peace but that might be too difficult for one such as yourself, locked in the us vs them mentality not seeing that we are all one and the same. The same divine lives equally in all of us, and what you do to others you do to yourself.

God lives equally in all wether Russion or American, we all are the same and what you do to you others is being done to none other than god. So dont wish for war on the divine within all wish for love and peace, perhaps that intention will be more progressive than self destruction you seem to wish to see.

Death will come to us all in our own time dont be anxious to see others suffer and die, you just bring that bad intention onto yourself.

a reply to: Mehmet666Heineken

''engage dictators''', it's just name you give, others call it a king.
What about S-Arabia? our good ally, of course in that case it's not a dictator!? No we go there when he died to honor our deep respect and greef!
And what about political figures, many from the same family becoming president or many who got a job in the government for a very very long time.

www.commondreams.org...
What about giving sanctions against Iraq (before the second war) where 500.000 million kids died (no medicine and so fort) and causing as always with sanctions an even more hostile country where the people in that country in most cases stand even more closer to their leader then ever before but sure the people in that country will suffer allot with sanctions.
People in Russia mostly hate the US now allot and Putin got their full support it seems.

All those people leaving the middle east since those wars (to Europe mostly), sure seems a better place now then with Saddam or khadaffi ...

Why the US have that monopoly on sanctions? Why they can decide who's good or bad and do her wishes always.

originally posted by: Plugin
a reply to: Mehmet666Heineken

''engage dictators''', it's just name you give, others call it a king.
What about S-Arabia? our good ally, of course in that case it's not a dictator!? No we go there when he died to honor our deep respect and greef!
And what about political figures, many from the same family becoming president or many who got a job in the government for a very very long time.

www.commondreams.org...
What about giving sanctions against Iraq (before the second war) where 500.000 million kids died (no medicine and so fort) and causing as always with sanctions an even more hostile country where the people in that country in most cases stand even more closer to their leader then ever before but sure the people in that country will suffer allot with sanctions.
People in Russia mostly hate the US now allot and Putin got their full support it seems.

All those people leaving the middle east since those wars (to Europe mostly), sure seems a better place now then with Saddam or khadaffi ...

Why the US have that monopoly on sanctions? Why they can decide who's good or bad and do her wishes always.

What about Saudi Arabia? Are you going to seriously compare Saudi Arabia to Saddam Hussein? Sure the Saudis are ass-hats, but they aren't the type of ass-hats to lob chemical warheads at dissidents and minorities, they aren't the type to declare a pan-Arab agenda and start invading their neighbors, their evil is carried out in more subtle ways while Saddam made himself a target for the whole world repeatedly through his brash and overtly cruel ways. You are grabbing for straws and whatever comes in your hand in your eyes is enough to justify the Russian occupation and invasion of Crimea/Ukraine.

Do I think the Saudis are horrible creatures? Yes. Have they done anything to deserve an invasion? Well it's a good thing they denounced Osama and Al Qaeda otherwise there would have been a regime change there as well.

a reply to: Mehmet666Heineken

Assad is bad because he bombed his own people when Ukraine does such a thing, it's no problem.

You can make anyone good or bad, with just the right media on your television you can believe someone is truly bad or good without being/living in that country.

What had Saddam did to you or me? Or Khadaffi, what danger they where to us? zero...

Why the west is there? sure they don't occupy in direct means but they surely want to control those country's.

originally posted by: Mehmet666Heineken
They clearly don't like the West/NATO...otherwise they wouldn't prop up Assad, empower Iran, and conduct long range bomber patrols over peaceful countries in a threatening manner!

The Russians need their early warning system in Syria for the case Israel does bull#. They want a harbor in the gulf like the west has the Saudis. And the US Marine with their carrier groups continuously patrols other countries.

Forget your double standards.

originally posted by: Mehmet666Heineken
a reply to: MALBOSIA

False pretenses or not, Saddam Hussein was a barbarian. Iraqi society was one big Hussein family dungeon/playground.

I might agree but it is still irrelevant. Character of the dictator is not a prerequisite when regimes are chosen to be backed by the west or Russia. Everyone has backed a psychopath or two in their day and NONE of them intervened on that fact.

Georgia is a democratically elected and peaceful country that has hardly made as much as a fart on the world stage. Are you saying it's okay for Russia to invade peaceful countries because the US and the rest of the world engage dictators?

Libya was a pretty nice place too.

The US does not have the right to decide if a country should have a dictator. The US has not used it's military to protect any interests other than corporate and finance. If you are going to ignore the importance of oil trading in US dollars in the ME, then I guess you can inject any self righteous BS story that gets you to sleep at night.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
I think I would rather be allies with Russia. What is the benefit of NOT being allies with Russia?

There is no such thing as a 'Russian Ally'. Ukraine was about as close a country can ever be to Russia and they are now getting invaded and ripped apart by their long time 'Russian Ally'.

You are either a subject of Russia or you are it's enemy. That is the Russian mentality. If you think you are their ally then you are delusional.

YEs GErmany was going to learn that lesson as well but Hitler hit them first instead. Maybe we should had switched sides in WW2. In exchange germany would had been satisfied with Russia landmass and if he left the jews alone and the remaining allies intact he could have it. WHat would russia had done if the allied nations had helped hitler beat them?

OR. heres another scenario. The US convinces China to put its army to use and overwhelm the russians. In exchange the US removes the missile shield and grants china access to various technologies and south korea and taiwan. Oh and we cant forget Russias oil and minerals in siberia. They get exclusive use of those for betraying the russians. I am sure china has similiar plans for when they get a shot to do it.

a reply to: Mehmet666Heineken

My intent was for that to happen but as you can see from page one the thread was hijacked by pro Russian sentiments. They should start their own threads if they want to voice their support of the commies there.

They do, but most of the time it has been something that hasn't been researched very well, but posted as some sort of truth.