UFOs & the Cold War: Project Palladium

a reply to: Bedlam

So the microwave radiation method is in active use you think?

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Bedlam

So the microwave radiation method is in active use you think?

Kev

Semiconductor companies do it every day all day long in plasma etchers. HAARP used to do it once in a while, but at pretty hefty altitude. You could do it a bit lower down but you had to wait for a meteor trail.

At ground level in free air, no.

a reply to: Bedlam

So how do you dispose of the 5000 years of 'sightings' which
seem pretty similar to the ones we have now?

Were all those people just dummies eating ergot and whipping
themselves into psychotic breaks with reality?

Did you know that Dr. Vallee is writing another large book on
the topic of pre-1900 UFO sightings?

Do you think that our tech goes back that far?

To 1900 or 3000 BC ?

I really like my dual-theory; it covers both cases.

;-)

Kev

a reply to: combatmaster

This is a good question because I still don't fully understand the science behind this myself.

Please note I am not claiming the plasma was sentient. It stemmed from something that came up looking in the Rendlesham Forest incident of 1980.

I mentioned it in my previous thread concerning the Washington DC UFO sightings in 1952 here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

But if you don't want to be sidetracked by clicking the link here it is in a nutshell.

During WWII it was found that 'foo fighters' were observed when certain aircraft fitted with H25 AI (Air Interception) radar on board were present. The microwaves produced by the radar accompanied by certain atmospheric conditions produced 'foo' or airborne plasma.

So there are two different aspects here. One is radar spoofing and the other is an observable plasma produced by the radar.

I would stress that although this is an interesting theory I cannot find any proof that both have been used in conjunction with each other to 'create' UFOs.

a reply to: mirageman

So who knows what technology was being used to spook foreign nations in the pursuit to destroy Communism?

It is interesting to note that since the Cold War ended those 'classic' UFO stories have also become a lot fewer. But the intel boys still seem hard at work to convince us that something was/is going on and not going on at the same time.

I think sometimes people go all 'Scooby Doo' and begin to think they can suss everything out. When it comes to international politics and national security, we're dealing with forces who have the power to influence/dictate media, start wars, use extraordinary rendition and make decisions that can leave countries destroyed. Very powerful groups at work.

These people operate on scales that we can barely comprehend. They move armies, instigate coups and influence the societies of countries across the world. If they've conjured up a UFO mythology, it'll be for reasons we can only guess at.

You're bang on to point out that 'classic' sightings have diminished since the end of the Cold War. There's got to be a correlation in there somewhere. At the same time, it doesn't make complete sense that the classics occurred on home territory. Wouldn't it seem more tactical and rational if the reports were generated within nations we were in conflict with?

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

You should join the 'dark side' and consider the possibility that myself and my much more famous cronies think is probably true:

How do you know that I'm not already on the 'dark side?'

Or out on a limb with something else?

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Bedlam

So how do you dispose of the 5000 years of 'sightings' which
seem pretty similar to the ones we have now?

Were all those people just dummies eating ergot and whipping
themselves into psychotic breaks with reality?

Well, they also thought a lot of other things that were pretty goofy. At this distance, how do you separate out sightings of Zeus and Athena? At least they did see some real stuff - Thor, Heimdall, Odin and the like.

Did you know that Dr. Vallee is writing another large book on
the topic of pre-1900 UFO sightings?

He worked at SRI, right? Ah, there's a big pile of fun stories. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. You might consider a double-cross there - maybe they're paying him to write it, you know.

originally posted by: Kandinsky

You're bang on to point out that 'classic' sightings have diminished since the end of the Cold War. There's got to be a correlation in there somewhere

A lot of problems were fixed, and now we have "triangles". They're not as showy.

a reply to: Bedlam

Now now the man is a friend of a friend of mine.
You will never find a more polite, honest man
at least as far as I know. I haven't met him
myself.

Have some feelings about SRI do we?

LOL

Still .. you wiped out nearly 5000 years of
recorded history with one statement. I think
that I'll take a slightly more nuanced approach.

And as far as modern day goes.. the republican
party say, and our 'democracy' has far more
delusional/mythological elements to it, than
poor old Zeus could every put together.

Kev

a reply to: Bedlam

Uh oh. Here we go again. The scourge of Lucifer ( < humor )
the high tech black triangle rears it's ugly head again to
destroy yet another thread.

So tell me..

The BTUFO I saw flew something like mach 15 without making
noise, changed shape twice, and had a chatty discussion with
me about the bother of being stuck in a high altitude retrograde
orbit much of the time.

You are going to tell me that this is 'off the shelf tech'?

Or you are going to tell me that I'm highly delusional..

or you are going to tell me that the 'active countermeasures'
included a psychoactive component?

I really want to hear this..

Kev

a reply to: mirageman

During WWII it was found that 'foo fighters' were observed when certain aircraft fitted with H25 AI (Air Interception) radar on board were present. The microwaves produced by the radar accompanied by certain atmospheric conditions produced 'foo' or airborne plasma.

thanks for the input and summary mirageman

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: mirageman

You don't think that so many are now just ASSUMING the government
is hiding this vast UFO conspiracy, that there is not even any
POINT to reporting sightings anymore?

I don't think there are less 'classic sightings' at all.

I mean, I saw a gi-normous "impossible" black triangle
UFO that was 100% impossible to deny (for me) and I
certainly didn't call the channel 2 news.

I reported it to MUFON and they investigated for about
a month and that was that,

Kev

Well once the Phoenix Lights went out I'll admit there have been a few cases to get our teeth into. O'Hare Airport, Stephenville, The Turkish UFO, perhaps a few others. But they are all stuff in the sky type cases. I guess a lot of people still see 'stuff in the sky' but assume it's military, a satellite or a Chinese lantern and move on. Even if they do see something unidentified the other issue is who do they report it to? Here in the UK the MoD have shut down their UFO desk. Not that it was ever that important anyway if you read the files generated from it.

But still we now live in the age of rapid information and what tends to happen is that UFO cases get explained very quickly in this day and age. I would guess that many of the older cases have lingered because the instant technology we have today did not exist back then. The resultant time lags between reports and investigation resulted in some convolution.

Of course it's also plausible that a lot of 'secret' technology became a lot easier to make even more secret due to the advances in our 'secret' technology.

a reply to: mirageman

Well that's the point.

There are hundreds of black triangle ufo sightings in the past year
alone I believe.

"They" don't seem to be very 'secret' with their secret UFO.

Just the opposite.

They are jamming it down our throat.

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Bedlam

Have some feelings about SRI do we?

LOL

It's the corner penthouse of spook central.

I might have worked for them at one point. It was hard to be sure who was what on that. Lot of fun though, and VERY illuminating, I think that was when I finally lost my innocence, in a political sense.

a reply to: Bedlam

The CIA overthrowing dozens of countries since the 50's wasn't enough of a hint
for you?

But I'll still be disappointed over your dismissing 5000 years of recorded history
with the wave of a hand, and your comment (lack of) on BTUFOs.

Kev

originally posted by: combatmaster
I wonder what you make of this Bedlam? (based on your observation below)

Well, H2S was just a tweak higher in frequency than your microwave. The power density inside your oven's cavity is a lot higher than you'd get from H2S at any distance from the plane.

H2S had about a 10kW output, so it's a lot stouter, but you got that square of the distance issue. Big S-band radars were and are still really popular, some with more output than H2S.

I'm not seeing a reason why/how H2S would do this.

OTOH, it was the first use of a magnetron outside a lab, pretty much, except at the rad lab. Maybe space buddies were interested.

eta: IIRC, Taffy Bowen stated that the magnetron that was used in the H2S would throw a plasma discharge off a feedhorn in the open a few inches. It's tough to see how you get that up to hundreds of feet. Also, if the power density of an H2S radar COULD do that, it would be doing it in a path leading away from the antenna, not manifesting as a separate blob at a distance - the power density is going to be falling steadily as you leave the antenna, and it's really tough to see why it is stout enough to form plasma in free air hundreds of feet away while it's not doing so two feet away.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

I really want to hear this..

Kev

Many of my answers to this would hinge on whether you're being literal with the chatty discussion part.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Bedlam

The CIA overthrowing dozens of countries since the 50's wasn't enough of a hint
for you?

But I'll still be disappointed over your dismissing 5000 years of recorded history
with the wave of a hand, and your comment (lack of) on BTUFOs.

Kev

Ah, you think I'm having a real time chat with you. Sorry. I'm also reading others' posts, and doing a bunch of C# coding.

No, I often do NOT take 5000 year old written accounts at face value. If it's about who stabbed who at the Battle of Whatsit, maybe. If it's about, say, less grounded things, no. There may be something interesting in there if you can figure out what they mis-understood, but I'm not generally going to take certain types of observations as is.

a reply to: Bedlam

Maybe space buddies were interested.

Thanks for the reply

I know i am.

So if i may ask, what is your take on the big black triangle/space buddies pehnomenon? is it possible there is something that science is not seeing here? (as far as we know).
To quote another member from another thread:

The finer points defy reductionism with our present, common equipment... and thus the subject takes a quick dive into the realms of imagination and "woo."

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: Bedlam
So if i may ask, what is your take on the big black triangle/space buddies pehnomenon?

It's us. All the way from Roswell to present. With a few entertaining side excursions, and some of the best obfuscation and misdirection the world has ever seen.

Plus, of course, a lot of swamp gas, and the planet Venus.

a reply to: Bedlam

You think I'd make something so insane sounding up?

It was my first and only 'UFO' sighting I've ever had.

But no need to answer; there are various true believers
on ATS, some believe in "Star Trek level technology"
and some in "magic".

I try to walk a line between those two extremes myself.

Kev