Why is Charlie Hebdo OK, but not Dieudonné ?

Any decent human being would not want to be seen with or know Le Pen. If this guy is close to him, that makes him guilty by association. I love jews, hate Israel and am no zionist or antisemite. In fact, in Lebanese...but as i said. No decent human being would be friends with anyone like Le pen or any of the leaders of the far right parties.

Case closed in my opinion. Pretty simple verdict.

a reply to: 3danimator2014

Judging people just by association, great proof of wisdom.

Case closed indeed.

originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
a reply to: 3danimator2014

Judging people just by association, great proof of wisdom.

Case closed indeed.

I absolutely judge people by association. At least to a certain extent. I am a decent human being. I have no beef wth any nationality therefore I would never be friends with anyone who hated muslims or jews or black people. If I meet anyone who IS friends with someone like that.. i have to ask why they tolerate it.


I have to say...i can't really see how this is complicated or unusual.

a reply to: 3danimator2014

They tolerate freedom of speech in France ... at least in a very cynical way.

Let's take a second look at the attacks :
Charlie on one hand, targeted for Muslim caricatures.
Hyper Cacher, targeted for being Jews.
Caried out by Islamic jihadists - one affiliated to ISIS the other to Al Quada.

When the press seems to suggest that there may be oposition between ISIS and Al Quada, practicaly terrorist affiliated to both groups act hand in hand.
There are people who may suggest that the guys of Charlie deserve it because they insulted religion. These people should be brave enough to push their logic to the bottom : the Jews are victims too because and they deserved it then. Why go shopping in Hyper Cacher if not to play the game of Jewish particularism as dogmaticly suggested ?

All are innocent victims IMO, the guys of Charlie have right to criticize religion and bigottery, and the Jews have right to be Jews. I'm not antisemite. Since I like a good laugh, I couldn't image for a second a world without them. Most comedian are jewish and I happened to have a lot of Jewish friends/colleagues. None of them is a zionist.

The problem is that these events are taking place in France - the hexagon - the geometrical pattern in the middle of the David star.
The presence of the an important Jewish community in France and the strong feeling of culpability among the french population towards the Jews can be traced back to the regime of Vichy. And the presence and influence of the Jewish diaspora is stronger in France than in any other european country. Therefore, because there are more Jews than in neighbouring countries, the feeling of opposition towards them is likely to be greater (see video of De Gaule on Page 1).
It's no surprise then, that it is among the french, that the most 'antisemite' humorists are likely to be found.
It's not just Dieudonné, Desproges, even Coluche ... they liked to clash them. But don't worry the #1 target of french comedians will always be the Belgians ... way ahead of the Jews. And we don't even beg for money ...
Humor is counter-power, the more influence one gathers, the more likely he is to be mocked.

You have to realise the situation of France with the Jews. First thing first, the prime minister :

Wow that's obvious statement. How does Judaism (ethnical proselytism backed by religious fundamentalism) fits in the french republican frame of Freedom, Equality, Brotherhood ?
Does that mean you can't go into politics in France as a Jew ? Yes, you can. But you sh... up on the topic, like Pierre Mendes France for ex.

It's not just Valls ... Guess where Strauss-Kahn would be now without the Carlton incident.

Humor of Dieudonné is racist since it targets the Jews, but since it targets the Jews - it's worse - it's antisemite.
Therefore, because he knows he's gonna end with such a label anyway, he applies it himself, proactively, on his own forehead. And then, starts spitting all the ugly truths that would have qualified him as an antisemite - he doesn't care - he annnounced it : I'm gonna sound like an antisemite.

Dieudonné is the tip on the iceberg when it comes to antzionism and antiracism in France ... Please label him a racist : he is black.

Here is list of 500 public personalies in France that you can clearly identify as pro-zionism, realise that their entire media system is infected : link

originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
a reply to: 3danimator2014

They tolerate freedom of speech in France ... at least in a very cynical way.

Let's take a second look at the attacks :
Charlie on one hand, targeted for Muslim caricatures.
Hyper Cacher, targeted for being Jews.
Caried out by Islamic jihadists - one affiliated to ISIS the other to Al Quada.

When the press seems to suggest that there may be oposition between ISIS and Al Quada, practicaly terrorist affiliated to both groups act hand in hand.
There are people who may suggest that the guys of Charlie deserve it because they insulted religion. These people should be brave enough to push their logic to the bottom : the Jews are victims too because and they deserved it then. Why go shopping in Hyper Cacher if not to play the game of Jewish particularism as dogmaticly suggested ?

All are innocent victims IMO, the guys of Charlie have right to criticize religion and bigottery, and the Jews have right to be Jews. I'm not antisemite. Since I like a good laugh, I couldn't image for a second a world without them. Most comedian are jewish and I happened to have a lot of Jewish friends/colleagues. None of them is a zionist.

The problem is that these events are taking place in France - the hexagon - the geometrical pattern in the middle of the David star.
The presence of the an important Jewish community in France and the strong feeling of culpability among the french population towards the Jews can be traced back to the regime of Vichy. And the presence and influence of the Jewish diaspora is stronger in France than in any other european country. Therefore, because there are more Jews than in neighbouring countries, the feeling of opposition towards them is likely to be greater (see video of De Gaule on Page 1).
It's no surprise then, that it is among the french, that the most 'antisemite' humorists are likely to be found.
It's not just Dieudonné, Desproges, even Coluche ... they liked to clash them. But don't worry the #1 target of french comedians will always be the Belgians ... way ahead of the Jews. And we don't even beg for money ...
Humor is counter-power, the more influence one gathers, the more likely he is to be mocked.

You have to realise the situation of France with the Jews. First thing first, the prime minister :

Wow that's obvious statement. How does Judaism (ethnical proselytism backed by religious fundamentalism) fits in the french republican frame of Freedom, Equality, Brotherhood ?
Does that mean you can't go into politics in France as a Jew ? Yes, you can. But you sh... up on the topic, like Pierre Mendes France for ex.

It's not just Valls ... Guess where Strauss-Kahn would be now without the Carlton incident.

Humor of Dieudonné is racist since it targets the Jews, but since it targets the Jews - it's worse - it's antisemite.
Therefore, because he knows he's gonna end with such a label anyway, he applies it himself, proactively, on his own forehead. And then, starts spitting all the ugly truths that would have qualified him as an antisemite - he doesn't care - he annnounced it : I'm gonna sound like an antisemite.

Dieudonné is the tip on the iceberg when it comes to antzionism and antiracism in France ... Please label him a racist : he is black.

Here is list of 500 public personalies in France that you can clearly identify as pro-zionism, realise that their entire media system is infected : link

I think there are a few crossed wires here. I agree that this guy should be able to make a joke about Jewish people without being called antisemitic. 1000% agree. I have never heard of him before or heard his show. But as long as it is humour and not vitriol, i got no issue with what he says. People are too quick to shout antisemite.

My only issue was someone said he was friends with Le Pen ... now that changes things . Now I have to belive that he actually does dislike jews and minorities and whoever else because if he didn't and he was tolerant why on earth would he be friends with an asshole like Le Pen? I know I would give him the time of day and neither would any other tolerant person I know.
I

a reply to: 3danimator2014

I agree that Dieudonné is borderline, even with his own antisemite label applied.
The very same point of view expressed by an ultra-orthodox rabbi should sound more acceptable :


People will be voting soon in Israel, I think its always interesting to push the logic to the bottom, even if you end with an unpleasant conslusion.

I don't want to shock, just to warn.

Shalom.

a reply to: Bluesma

Beneath it all I actually believe that these situations are underpinned by national and racial karma, and it will not be denied.
It will have to be worked out somhow sooner or later.

a reply to: 3danimator2014

So you are intolerant of people that are intolerant. How very tolerant of you.

a reply to: Bluesma

your posts have been pretty logical till you likened born again christians to "crazy criminals" in french ghettos. i had to read that a few times lol uh, no.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Bluesma

your posts have been pretty logical till you likened born again christians to "crazy criminals" in french ghettos. i had to read that a few times lol uh, no.

LOL! Then I wasn't very clear! Crazy criminals are the opposites of these types I am writing of. Literally.
In the ghettos, these two types oppose each other.

The "born again " muslims are against all the criminal gangs do and stand for.
And yeah, some of them go deeper and become soldiers for allah. Like my born again aunt, who got involved in some christian group once that was doing rituals around a a sword and swearing to be a soldier for God- no matter what God asked of her.
She found out later she is schizophrenic, when she couldn't decide whether the voice was God or John Lennon. Medication calmed her down.

People with psychological disorders exist in all lands, all "races", and they often grasp onto religion as a conduct for their craziness.

Why is it that white american christians who suddenly gun down a bunch of people are written off as mentally sick,
and arab muslims who do the same are not? They are simply terrorists.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

CharlieSpeirs, things are escalating now don't you think ... But this doesn't scare me, probably because it's in the right direction : non-violence.

Iranian institutions to hold cartoon contest on The Holocaust

Why Netanyahu's Use of the Holocaust Is a Vile Form of Propaganda

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

Well the non violence is a plus...

But the Holocaust denial is a tragic insult...

Not to Israel, but to all the people who died.

I think Iran are wrong to do that.



As for the second article, I couldn't agree more...

Using the Holocaust to justify an agenda is also an insult to the people who died...

Can't see this staying Peaceful for long though.


Thanks for the links.

Dieudonne standing trial on charges of "condoning terrorism"

Gilad Atzmon on the topic :

Dieudonne was in Iran this week where he met with Dr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Dieudonne handed over to him the Golden Quenelle Award for his lifetime achievements and celebrated his coming back into politics.

Dieudonné remet la Quenelle d’or à Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

There are also some US comedians, sharing that kind of humor :

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

For the record, Neturei Karta is a pretty loathsome little group. I hat the term 'self-hating" but according to the theology of this sect, Jews should have no self-determination at all. According to Neturei Karta, every ill that has fallen on Jews and the Jewish people, is Jews' own fault for daring to act in any context without explicit, literal permission from God. That is, every pogrom, every killing , all of it, was brought upon Jews by Jews themselves.

The really annoying thing, is that these loons keep turning up at pro-Palestinian events and protests, and some in our crowd think these are honest, ethically-driven men (and it's ll-male, if you're curious) who want peace. No, fact is Neturei karta - as an organization - doesn't give one whit about justice for Palestinians (individual members might, I don't know.) Rather the sect opposes the very existence of Israel on purely religious grounds - God himself did not deliver it, and so it should not exist.

They're a weird bunch, shades of Westboro baptist church (except I think Neturei karta is earnest with their beliefs, while WBC seems more opportunistic)

a reply to: TheTengriist

I take Naturei Karta for what it's worth don't worry. They happen to be an interesting counter-argumentation against the zionists inside the Jewish microcosm.
Now they too have been shown in strange company :

It's hard to find an interpretation of Judaism that doesn't have political implications ... while originaly it's the Jews who introduced the mandatory difference between state and religion.

I happend to come accross a older issue of Charlie Hebdo (nr 88 from 1972). With a cover illustration being a direct reference to the 30th anniversary of the Vel' d'Hiv Roundup

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs


it's comedy.

somebody has a thin skin, so that makes it anti-semitic?