Big Tax Bills for the Poor, Tiny Ones for the Rich

There should be a set percentage taken from people's pay checks...

Say 25%...


So if you earn 10,000...
You get 7500...

If you earn 100,000...
You get 75,000...

If you earn 1,000,000...
You get 750,000...



If it doesn't already work like that.

Meet Frank he paid no taxes 2003 - 2008

The true effective rate for multimillionaires is actually far lower than that indicated by official government statistics. That’s because those figures fail to include the additional income that’s generated by many sophisticated tax-avoidance strategies. Several of those techniques involve some variation of complicated borrowings that never get repaid, netting the beneficiaries hundreds of millions in tax-free cash. From 2003 to 2008, for example, Los Angeles Dodgers owner and real estate developer Frank H. McCourt Jr. paid no federal or state regular income taxes, as stated in court records dug up by the Los Angeles Times. Developers such as McCourt, according to a declaration in his divorce proceeding, “typically fund their lifestyle through lines of credit and loan proceeds secured by their assets while paying little or no personal income taxes.” A spokesman for McCourt said he availed himself of a tax code provision at the time that permitted purchasers of sports franchises to defer income taxes.

source

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
There should be a set percentage taken from people's pay checks...

Say 25%...


So if you earn 10,000...
You get 7500...

If you earn 100,000...
You get 75,000...

If you earn 1,000,000...
You get 750,000...



If it doesn't already work like that.

That would be awesome if it worked like that!

But it doesn't....

Because if it did the politicians couldn't manipulate behavior and campaign based on promises of how they're going to continually adjust the tax code.

It should be a simple flat percentage, no exceptions, no room for gaming the system.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
There should be a set percentage taken from people's pay checks...

Say 25%...


So if you earn 10,000...
You get 7500...

If you earn 100,000...
You get 75,000...

If you earn 1,000,000...
You get 750,000...



If it doesn't already work like that.

Many conservatives have been calling for a flat tax for decades which is what you are advocating. The problem is that it takes away the loop holes which politicians use to dole out favors to their constituents so the idea has never gained much traction.

The opponents of it will claim that a flat tax hurts the poor more than the rich (kind of like what the OP is claiming with this thread). If you make $4000/mo, 25% or $1,000 of your paycheck is going to hurt you a helluva a lot more than if you make $10,000/mo with a tax bill of $2500. However, many proponents of a flat tax want a credit for low income workers that offsets the tax so their effective rate is zero.

What about our favorite store WallyWorld err umm Walmart:

Walmart reduced its federal tax bills by an estimated $104 million over the past six years by exploiting a tax loophole that allowed eight top executives to pocket more than $298 million in “performance pay” that was fully tax deductible.

Michael T. Duke, Walmart’s recently retired President & CEO and currently Chairman of the Executive Committee of the Board of Directors, pocketed nearly $116 million in exercised stock options and other “performance pay” during the period 2009-2014. That translates into a taxpayer subsidy for Walmart of more than $40 million

source

But then everyone loves WallyWorld and we are happy our government readily subsidizes them!

aren't we?

The OP is obviously about the load of State and local tax on lower and middle income people. Not Federal taxes which are very progressive.

Many Federal unfunded mandates add to local and State taxes but are not paid by the Federal Government adding to the local tax load.

My pet peeves are Taj Mahal fire stations with ladder trucks in a county with no high rise buildings, schools built with special local option sales tax with no provision for operating or personell funds and miles of underutilized bike trails built with matching funds using gas tax and local funds.

It's all largesse to get votes but raises property taxes of those whom the OP worries about.

We've all had to tighten our belts and it's well past time that ALL government do the same.

a reply to: AlaskanDad

If they aren't doing anything illegal there is nothing you can do about it. If you don't want people gaming the system, then you need to advocate a simpler tax code. All of these loopholes are made possible by our overly complicated tax system. Guess which party has called for a flat tax? It isn't the Democrats.

By the way, here is good ole John Kerry avoiding taxes to help you get some balance in your examples.

John Kerry's Yacht

Or better yet... Here's the Obama's taking advantage of a tax savings plan for a 529 college savings plan while now proposing to tax us little people on the same savings vehicle.

Obama's 529 Plan

a reply to: Edumakated

Life is not fair...

...so make the rich pay their taxes!

a reply to: Blaine91555

As Warren Buffett likes to point out, since most of his income is from dividends, his tax rate is less than that of the people who clean his office. The true effective rate for multimillionaires is actually far lower than that indicated by official government statistics. That’s because those figures fail to include the additional income that’s generated by many sophisticated tax-avoidance strategies. Several of those techniques involve some variation of complicated borrowings that never get repaid, netting the beneficiaries hundreds of millions in tax-free cash

source

originally posted by: Phoenix
The OP is obviously about the load of State and local tax on lower and middle income people. Not Federal taxes which are very progressive.

Many Federal unfunded mandates add to local and State taxes but are not paid by the Federal Government adding to the local tax load.

My pet peeves are Taj Mahal fire stations with ladder trucks in a county with no high rise buildings, schools built with special local option sales tax with no provision for operating or personell funds and miles of underutilized bike trails built with matching funds using gas tax and local funds.

It's all largesse to get votes but raises property taxes of those whom the OP worries about.

We've all had to tighten our belts and it's well past time that ALL government do the same.

I live in a community with a high tax base. We have excellent schools. Our high school is over funded by $100 million. Yes, you read that right. So basically, the homeowners have given the school a $100 million surplus through our exorbitant property taxes. Naturally, many of the homeowners want the taxes to be lowered or refunded at this point. Of course, the village politicians don't want to. So now they've proposed building a $50 million swimming pool for the high school. WTF?

This is the kind of stuff that pisses off tax payers. My home value is barely higher than it was when I bought my house 10 years ago, yet my property tax bill has doubled in that time frame. My family has made numerous sacrifices to keep our budget in order over the years, yet government has no notion of tightening up their budgets. It is easy to spend other people's money.

Of course, what is crazy is that this is probably the most liberal town in the state. I'm talking socialist party asking you to honk at intersections. war protest every other weekend. freaking nuts.

a reply to: Edumakated

Which conservatives have been calling for a flat tax with a credit for low income workers?

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
Meet Frank he paid no taxes 2003 - 2008

The true effective rate for multimillionaires is actually far lower than that indicated by official government statistics. That’s because those figures fail to include the additional income that’s generated by many sophisticated tax-avoidance strategies. Several of those techniques involve some variation of complicated borrowings that never get repaid, netting the beneficiaries hundreds of millions in tax-free cash. From 2003 to 2008, for example, Los Angeles Dodgers owner and real estate developer Frank H. McCourt Jr. paid no federal or state regular income taxes, as stated in court records dug up by the Los Angeles Times. Developers such as McCourt, according to a declaration in his divorce proceeding, “typically fund their lifestyle through lines of credit and loan proceeds secured by their assets while paying little or no personal income taxes.” A spokesman for McCourt said he availed himself of a tax code provision at the time that permitted purchasers of sports franchises to defer income taxes.

source

So you think people should pay tax when they borrow money?

That makes zero sense.

That would make the effective interest rate on the loan payment much higher and bring the economy to a standstill.

Do you not understand that wealthy people can choose to live and put their money in any country? Why keep it in the U.S. if it's subjected to exorbitant tax and litigation risks?

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
a reply to: Blaine91555

As Warren Buffett likes to point out, since most of his income is from dividends, his tax rate is less than that of the people who clean his office. The true effective rate for multimillionaires is actually far lower than that indicated by official government statistics. That’s because those figures fail to include the additional income that’s generated by many sophisticated tax-avoidance strategies. Several of those techniques involve some variation of complicated borrowings that never get repaid, netting the beneficiaries hundreds of millions in tax-free cash

Yeah, good ole Warren Buffet. The very Warren Buffet who is suing the IRS to avoid paying his fair share. More liberal do as I say, not as I do.

Warren Buffet IRS

a reply to: Jamie1

Don't just open your mouth...



...Feed Your Mind!


READ

Christine Lagarde, the IMF managing director salary of $467,940 plus an $83,760 additional allowance is not subject to any taxes.

source

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Edumakated

Which conservatives have been calling for a flat tax with a credit for low income workers?

en.wikipedia.org...

"The Fair Tax Act is designed to replace all federal income taxes (including the alternative minimum tax, corporate income taxes, and capital gains taxes), payroll taxes (including Social Security and Medicare taxes), gift taxes, and estate taxes with a national retail sales tax on new goods and services. The legislation would remove the Internal Revenue Service (after three years), and establish an Excise Tax Bureau and a Sales Tax Bureau in the Department of the Treasury.[16] The states are granted the primary authority for the collection of sales tax revenues and the remittance of such revenues to the Treasury. The plan was created by Americans For Fair Taxation, an advocacy group formed to change the tax system. The group states that, together with economists, it developed the plan and the name "Fair Tax", based on interviews, polls, and focus groups of the general public.[4] The FairTax legislation has been introduced in the House by Georgia Republicans John Linder (1999–2010) and Rob Woodall (2011–2014), while being introduced in the Senate by Georgia Republican Saxby Chambliss (2003–2014)."

If you recall, Herman Cain pushed a variant of it during the 2012 campaign that he called his 999 plan.

Edit: The fair tax is the consumption tax version that I also like. A little different than a true flat tax.

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
a reply to: Jamie1

Don't just open your mouth...



...Feed Your Mind!


READ

So are you going to stand with conservatives/tea party in calling for a flat or fair tax so we can get rid of the loopholes?

a reply to: Jamie1

Ya you're right, in our oligarchy we better keep those that control our money happy or our econ is destroyed, seems legit.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
a reply to: Jamie1

Don't just open your mouth...



...Feed Your Mind!


READ

So are you going to stand with conservatives/tea party in calling for a flat or fair tax so we can get rid of the loopholes?

My experience is those who demonize the wealthy will a) never have a prayer of dramatically improving their own lives through their own efforts, and b) never stop wanting to take money from the wealthy.

They will live in a perpetual cycle of jealously and poverty which was probably passed down by their parents, and which they will likely pass down to their children.

a reply to: Edumakated

Hooray. hooray for Herman Cain!

Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan would raise taxes on 84 percent of U.S. households, according to an independent analysis released Tuesday, contradicting claims by the Republican presidential candidate that most Americans would see a tax cut. The Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, says low- and middle-income families would be hit hardest, with households making between $10,000 and $20,000 seeing their taxes increase by nearly 950 percent.

source