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originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: backcase
So you do not deny the idea of God, just YHWH?
I do not believe in the existence of gods/goddesses/deities/divinity. All of which are human concepts.
The human conscience is enough evidence that the law is written in our hearts and that violation to the true Law is sin.
As you wish, but as far as I'm concerned, sin, like deity, is strictly a human concept.
originally posted by: zazzafrazz
I'd say the HUman Brain, thumb, cooked meat, and straightening of spine are SOME of the most powerful influencing factors on Planet Earth.
Things like Fire, Ocean, Winds and volcanism are far more powerful and destiny changing.
Then there is no judgment that you can place onto God nor onto anyone that believes in God.
With no good or evil then God is neither good nor evil. That's a quandry, how does a God who does not exist have any moral objections placed onto Him and since there can be no moral judgments of good or evil then there is no good or evil in the world. The people doing evil must simply be products of evolution and nothing more.
So it would not be a sin for me to ride over your child because your child is nothing more than a by product of evolution? I don't know if you have children, but it would seem to me that if I did such a thing, that would be sinful, but since there is no evil, then there is no evil in sex trafficking of children.
Is that how you would have us believe?
originally posted by: backcase
a reply to: Klassified
Do you believe in anything? You seem to find comfort in this forum, whatever you believe.
originally posted by: backcase
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: backcase
originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: backcase
How would you differentiate spirit and will?
Is will only the spirit / purpose / desire which you enact? Force / spirit which has been used / translated?
Will is want and decision.
Will would be the decision, and the spirit would be a factor in the decision making process. The spirit of man holds all the advice that man has received and then presents this to the mind.
The will acts when the decision to be made presents itself. The spirit of man cannot MAKE him do anything.
My spirit advises me to not sin because it is always aware of God. My will when I sin is to ignore this voice, and thus I sin and go against my spirit.
But I'm still learning on this subject. So take what I say here with salt, I do not wish to lead anyone away from the truth, but to clarify it.
Where in your body does will reside? Where does decision reside? Where does spirit reside?
All three are both internal and external, being present in man's whole being and what presents itself to him.
Are you comfortable with groupthink?
I am not. I have seen what happens when groupthink becomes the order of the day.
BTW, are you judging my life by my statement of faith, when you don't even know me or my life? What is this stereotypical image you have of me, if I may ask?
ATS is just a tiny portion of my life and it isn't even the biggest insight to what goes on in my world, but I think we would all be better served if perhaps you can explain to me exactly what you think my life is about.
originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: WarminIndy
Are you comfortable with groupthink?
All too often, groupthink permeates our society. This is especially true regarding religion and politics, without leaving out the other places it infects.
I am not. I have seen what happens when groupthink becomes the order of the day.
I have too. See it every day. Saw it in the fundamentalist church. Especially when I was an elder(deacon).
BTW, are you judging my life by my statement of faith, when you don't even know me or my life? What is this stereotypical image you have of me, if I may ask?
Not by any means, but your statement of faith says much about you, depending on your denominational leaning, or lack thereof. Probably more so to me, than many others, because I lived my life by it for a long time.
Do you judge my life by my lack of a statement of faith? Of course you do. I am a heathen to you.
ATS is just a tiny portion of my life and it isn't even the biggest insight to what goes on in my world, but I think we would all be better served if perhaps you can explain to me exactly what you think my life is about.
You mean you would be better served.
I have no idea what your life is about. No more than you know what mine is about. We met on a forum, and we only have what we each say to gauge our responses by. I try my best not to presume too much on ATS, but I am human, and I suspect I am talking to a human. Though I could be wrong about that. I'd say the odds are in my favor, I'm right.
WE would be better served because YOU said you are a heathen to me. THAT comes from your own skewed view of Christianity, not mine. YOU judge me according to YOUR experience so YOU based an assumption on what YOU thought all Christians are like.
I am a mix of Quaker/Mystic/Pentecostal/Jewish...
So what made you assume some type of Fundamentalism in me, when I never was exposed to that in my childhood?
Yes, I grew up hearing about Jesus Christ, but the concept of relationship was more important than any Fundamentalism, Orthodoxy or prescribed canon or creeds.
I grew up in the lowest class, the "white trash" family. We were extremely impoverished with everything that comes with impoverishment because my dad was a paranoid schizophrenic who was never treated for it, and two brothers who exhibit the same symptoms.
So now, from that, what do you assume now about me? I don't assume or presume to know about your life, only your words posted on ATS.
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: backcase
So you do not deny the idea of God, just YHWH?
I do not believe in the existence of gods/goddesses/deities/divinity. All of which are human concepts.
The human conscience is enough evidence that the law is written in our hearts and that violation to the true Law is sin.
As you wish, but as far as I'm concerned, sin, like deity, is strictly a human concept.
So it would not be a sin for me to ride over your child because your child is nothing more than a by product of evolution? I don't know if you have children, but it would seem to me that if I did such a thing, that would be sinful, but since there is no evil, then there is no evil in sex trafficking of children.
Is that how you would have us believe?
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: backcase
So you do not deny the idea of God, just YHWH?
I do not believe in the existence of gods/goddesses/deities/divinity. All of which are human concepts.
The human conscience is enough evidence that the law is written in our hearts and that violation to the true Law is sin.
As you wish, but as far as I'm concerned, sin, like deity, is strictly a human concept.
So it would not be a sin for me to ride over your child because your child is nothing more than a by product of evolution? I don't know if you have children, but it would seem to me that if I did such a thing, that would be sinful, but since there is no evil, then there is no evil in sex trafficking of children.
Is that how you would have us believe?
Sin is a religious concept. It means an offense against God. Evil is also a religious concept. Do you understand that? It is possible to cause harm or do something that society considers to be abhorrent without referring to it as sin or evil. Do you understand that?
originally posted by: backcase
a reply to: Tangerine
Don't take it so literally. The answer I wrote was meant to transcend the sense of the question. I was trying to make our conversation a bit deeper because that's where the idea is understood. You have to go below the surface.
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: backcase
So you do not deny the idea of God, just YHWH?
I do not believe in the existence of gods/goddesses/deities/divinity. All of which are human concepts.
The human conscience is enough evidence that the law is written in our hearts and that violation to the true Law is sin.
As you wish, but as far as I'm concerned, sin, like deity, is strictly a human concept.
So it would not be a sin for me to ride over your child because your child is nothing more than a by product of evolution? I don't know if you have children, but it would seem to me that if I did such a thing, that would be sinful, but since there is no evil, then there is no evil in sex trafficking of children.
Is that how you would have us believe?
Sin is a religious concept. It means an offense against God. Evil is also a religious concept. Do you understand that? It is possible to cause harm or do something that society considers to be abhorrent without referring to it as sin or evil. Do you understand that?
Sin is an offense against a person, because it is a person you harm by doing things to them. That's what the Law of Moses is about, not because you hurt God, but the punishment for harming others.
When you harm another, you harm God. That's why murder is a sin, because you took the life of a person created in the image of God, denied their humanity and felt that their life was not valuable or has any worth, to satisfy the inward hatred of another's humanity.
Remember the world that those early Jews were living in, it was harsh and every nation around were not so nice. Moses recognized the need for a system of laws for a group of people who were now living together as a nation. That's how the Jews perceive it, they are a nation, therefore they need laws.
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: backcase
So you do not deny the idea of God, just YHWH?
I do not believe in the existence of gods/goddesses/deities/divinity. All of which are human concepts.
The human conscience is enough evidence that the law is written in our hearts and that violation to the true Law is sin.
As you wish, but as far as I'm concerned, sin, like deity, is strictly a human concept.
So it would not be a sin for me to ride over your child because your child is nothing more than a by product of evolution? I don't know if you have children, but it would seem to me that if I did such a thing, that would be sinful, but since there is no evil, then there is no evil in sex trafficking of children.
Is that how you would have us believe?
Sin is a religious concept. It means an offense against God. Evil is also a religious concept. Do you understand that? It is possible to cause harm or do something that society considers to be abhorrent without referring to it as sin or evil. Do you understand that?
Sin is an offense against a person, because it is a person you harm by doing things to them. That's what the Law of Moses is about, not because you hurt God, but the punishment for harming others.
When you harm another, you harm God. That's why murder is a sin, because you took the life of a person created in the image of God, denied their humanity and felt that their life was not valuable or has any worth, to satisfy the inward hatred of another's humanity.
Remember the world that those early Jews were living in, it was harsh and every nation around were not so nice. Moses recognized the need for a system of laws for a group of people who were now living together as a nation. That's how the Jews perceive it, they are a nation, therefore they need laws.
There's not an iota of historical evidence proving that Moses ever existed and not an iota of testable evidence proving that God exists. Sin does not exist outside of a religious context any more than Moses and God exist outside of a religious context.
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: backcase
So you do not deny the idea of God, just YHWH?
I do not believe in the existence of gods/goddesses/deities/divinity. All of which are human concepts.
The human conscience is enough evidence that the law is written in our hearts and that violation to the true Law is sin.
As you wish, but as far as I'm concerned, sin, like deity, is strictly a human concept.
So it would not be a sin for me to ride over your child because your child is nothing more than a by product of evolution? I don't know if you have children, but it would seem to me that if I did such a thing, that would be sinful, but since there is no evil, then there is no evil in sex trafficking of children.
Is that how you would have us believe?
Sin is a religious concept. It means an offense against God. Evil is also a religious concept. Do you understand that? It is possible to cause harm or do something that society considers to be abhorrent without referring to it as sin or evil. Do you understand that?
Sin is an offense against a person, because it is a person you harm by doing things to them. That's what the Law of Moses is about, not because you hurt God, but the punishment for harming others.
When you harm another, you harm God. That's why murder is a sin, because you took the life of a person created in the image of God, denied their humanity and felt that their life was not valuable or has any worth, to satisfy the inward hatred of another's humanity.
Remember the world that those early Jews were living in, it was harsh and every nation around were not so nice. Moses recognized the need for a system of laws for a group of people who were now living together as a nation. That's how the Jews perceive it, they are a nation, therefore they need laws.
There's not an iota of historical evidence proving that Moses ever existed and not an iota of testable evidence proving that God exists. Sin does not exist outside of a religious context any more than Moses and God exist outside of a religious context.
Keep telling yourself that, I'm sorry that you can't seem to grasp that history happened.
By your logic then prove to me Solon and Socrates lived. If no one existed prior to the 1st century, there is no iota to give me reason to believe those ancient philosophers did either.
If you tell me Plato lived because we have his writings of The Republic I can say that we don't have the original manuscripts because what we have now was transcribed much later. So, using your logic, Plato didn't exist, a bunch of people saying he lived doesn't make it true, because you know, followers are not good enough sources to prove existence of anyone.
Yep, your logic makes sense, Solon, Socrates, Plato, none of them existed.
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: backcase
So you do not deny the idea of God, just YHWH?
I do not believe in the existence of gods/goddesses/deities/divinity. All of which are human concepts.
The human conscience is enough evidence that the law is written in our hearts and that violation to the true Law is sin.
As you wish, but as far as I'm concerned, sin, like deity, is strictly a human concept.
So it would not be a sin for me to ride over your child because your child is nothing more than a by product of evolution? I don't know if you have children, but it would seem to me that if I did such a thing, that would be sinful, but since there is no evil, then there is no evil in sex trafficking of children.
Is that how you would have us believe?
Sin is a religious concept. It means an offense against God. Evil is also a religious concept. Do you understand that? It is possible to cause harm or do something that society considers to be abhorrent without referring to it as sin or evil. Do you understand that?
Sin is an offense against a person, because it is a person you harm by doing things to them. That's what the Law of Moses is about, not because you hurt God, but the punishment for harming others.
When you harm another, you harm God. That's why murder is a sin, because you took the life of a person created in the image of God, denied their humanity and felt that their life was not valuable or has any worth, to satisfy the inward hatred of another's humanity.
Remember the world that those early Jews were living in, it was harsh and every nation around were not so nice. Moses recognized the need for a system of laws for a group of people who were now living together as a nation. That's how the Jews perceive it, they are a nation, therefore they need laws.
There's not an iota of historical evidence proving that Moses ever existed and not an iota of testable evidence proving that God exists. Sin does not exist outside of a religious context any more than Moses and God exist outside of a religious context.
Keep telling yourself that, I'm sorry that you can't seem to grasp that history happened.
By your logic then prove to me Solon and Socrates lived. If no one existed prior to the 1st century, there is no iota to give me reason to believe those ancient philosophers did either.
If you tell me Plato lived because we have his writings of The Republic I can say that we don't have the original manuscripts because what we have now was transcribed much later. So, using your logic, Plato didn't exist, a bunch of people saying he lived doesn't make it true, because you know, followers are not good enough sources to prove existence of anyone.
Yep, your logic makes sense, Solon, Socrates, Plato, none of them existed.
The difference is that I didn't claim they existed. You have claimed that Moses and God existed. Therefore, the onus on you is to prove your claim. You can't. End of story.
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: backcase
So you do not deny the idea of God, just YHWH?
I do not believe in the existence of gods/goddesses/deities/divinity. All of which are human concepts.
The human conscience is enough evidence that the law is written in our hearts and that violation to the true Law is sin.
As you wish, but as far as I'm concerned, sin, like deity, is strictly a human concept.
So it would not be a sin for me to ride over your child because your child is nothing more than a by product of evolution? I don't know if you have children, but it would seem to me that if I did such a thing, that would be sinful, but since there is no evil, then there is no evil in sex trafficking of children.
Is that how you would have us believe?
Sin is a religious concept. It means an offense against God. Evil is also a religious concept. Do you understand that? It is possible to cause harm or do something that society considers to be abhorrent without referring to it as sin or evil. Do you understand that?
Sin is an offense against a person, because it is a person you harm by doing things to them. That's what the Law of Moses is about, not because you hurt God, but the punishment for harming others.
When you harm another, you harm God. That's why murder is a sin, because you took the life of a person created in the image of God, denied their humanity and felt that their life was not valuable or has any worth, to satisfy the inward hatred of another's humanity.
Remember the world that those early Jews were living in, it was harsh and every nation around were not so nice. Moses recognized the need for a system of laws for a group of people who were now living together as a nation. That's how the Jews perceive it, they are a nation, therefore they need laws.
There's not an iota of historical evidence proving that Moses ever existed and not an iota of testable evidence proving that God exists. Sin does not exist outside of a religious context any more than Moses and God exist outside of a religious context.
Keep telling yourself that, I'm sorry that you can't seem to grasp that history happened.
By your logic then prove to me Solon and Socrates lived. If no one existed prior to the 1st century, there is no iota to give me reason to believe those ancient philosophers did either.
If you tell me Plato lived because we have his writings of The Republic I can say that we don't have the original manuscripts because what we have now was transcribed much later. So, using your logic, Plato didn't exist, a bunch of people saying he lived doesn't make it true, because you know, followers are not good enough sources to prove existence of anyone.
Yep, your logic makes sense, Solon, Socrates, Plato, none of them existed.
The difference is that I didn't claim they existed. You have claimed that Moses and God existed. Therefore, the onus on you is to prove your claim. You can't. End of story.
Yes, and so what?
Do you just cruise around looking for threads where you can say "Oh look....onus to prove, burden of proof". Yes, God exists and you are proof of His existence.