The Human Spirit – The most powerful force in the world

a reply to: backcase

How would you differentiate spirit and will?

Is will only the spirit / purpose / desire which you enact? Force / spirit which has been used / translated?

We are gods brother. you are a part of god, and you are god. You can manifest any energy you want with what is available to you in this moment, by will alone. And I believe that our spirit is pure as we begin.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: WarminIndy

My heart isn't wicked. What's that make me?

S&F OP

Every evil thought generates in the heart. Every action generates in the heart. And you cannot say that you do not sometimes think evil thoughts and you cannot say that every action is good.

But that's your moral relativism, I suppose.

The standard of good or evil is formulated only in your mind, therefore, you might be evil and think you are good. I don't know, but just because you say you are good, doesn't mean that you are good.

The heart of man is wicked above all else, who can understand it.

Thoughts are generated in the heart? Alert your surgeon! Bunk like this alternates between being humorous and pathetic.

Are you so completely materialistic that you think that is what it means? The heart in the Bible does not mean physical heart and you know better than that argument you just made.
.....
Those stars are misleading as well, they don't mean you are right, only that someone agrees with you.

The heart in the Bible does not mean physical heart. OK. And God and Jesus are not to be taken literally, too. Do we agree?

I don't pay any attention to awarded stars. Interesting that you do.

Let me ask this, since you are so materialistic, did the world exist before you were born?

You can only judge the world by what you experience of it, so can you trust that the world existed before you?

You make a false assumption. I am not a materialist (which is what you actually mean) nor am I materialistic. Your question about whether the world I existed before I was born in nonsensical in that it has nothing to do with being a materialist. Of course the world existed before I was born.

You misunderstand materialism entirely.

When did I say that one can only judge the world by that which one experiences of it?

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: backcase

How would you differentiate spirit and will?

Is will only the spirit / purpose / desire which you enact? Force / spirit which has been used / translated?

Will is determination.

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: backcase

How would you differentiate spirit and will?

Is will only the spirit / purpose / desire which you enact? Force / spirit which has been used / translated?

Will is want and decision.

Will would be the decision, and the spirit would be a factor in the decision making process. The spirit of man holds all the advice that man has received and then presents this to the mind.

The will acts when the decision to be made presents itself. The spirit of man cannot MAKE him do anything.

My spirit advises me to not sin because it is always aware of God. My will when I sin is to ignore this voice, and thus I sin and go against my spirit.

But I'm still learning on this subject. So take what I say here with salt, I do not wish to lead anyone away from the truth, but to clarify it.

originally posted by: backcase

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: backcase

How would you differentiate spirit and will?

Is will only the spirit / purpose / desire which you enact? Force / spirit which has been used / translated?

Will is want and decision.

Will would be the decision, and the spirit would be a factor in the decision making process. The spirit of man holds all the advice that man has received and then presents this to the mind.

The will acts when the decision to be made presents itself. The spirit of man cannot MAKE him do anything.

My spirit advises me to not sin because it is always aware of God. My will when I sin is to ignore this voice, and thus I sin and go against my spirit.

But I'm still learning on this subject. So take what I say here with salt, I do not wish to lead anyone away from the truth, but to clarify it.

Where in your body does will reside? Where does decision reside? Where does spirit reside?

a reply to: backcase

It still sounds like you're saying it is enacted spirit.

The way you describe the spirit is the way that I would describe the conscience: the awareness you have of your desire/spirit to do the right thing.

And so, if you enact that desire to do right, you are translating your spirit into the light - which is your desire / your purpose / your will - you are willing your will (to do right as you perceive it).

Is any will or desire, that is not related to doing right or wrong, different than your spirit?

Is there any will that is not based on your desire to do what is "good"?

Wouldn't you say that even Satan does what Satan thinks is "good"?

p.s. Not lecturing you, man - just trying to explain what I see, and then ask again what you see so that I can tell if it is different (if that makes sense.) I'm trying to learn.

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: backcase

It still sounds like you're saying it is enacted spirit.

The way you describe the spirit is the way that I would describe the conscience: the awareness you have of your desire/spirit to do the right thing.

And so, if you enact that desire to do right, you are translating your spirit into the light - which is your desire / your purpose / your will - you are willing your will (to do right as you perceive it).

Is any will or desire, that is not related to doing right or wrong, different than your spirit?

Is there any will that is not based on your desire to do what is "good"?

Wouldn't you say that even Satan does what Satan thinks is "good"?

p.s. Not lecturing you, man - just trying to explain what I see, and then ask again what you see so that I can tell if it is different (if that makes sense.) I'm trying to learn.

I had similar thoughts when writing. I almost elated to say that the human spirit is the conscience, because the way i see it, it makes a lot of sense.

I perceive that many will to do what is wrong and what they know is wrong by ignoring both their conscience and God.

We know of right and wrong so that we may make the decisions and have our free will and learn from our mistakes.

We can desire what is bad and even harmful for us, so desire is not pure. Smoking, for example, I know it is wrong, it displeases God and my spirit, yet I still smoke.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: backcase

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: backcase

How would you differentiate spirit and will?

Is will only the spirit / purpose / desire which you enact? Force / spirit which has been used / translated?

Will is want and decision.

Will would be the decision, and the spirit would be a factor in the decision making process. The spirit of man holds all the advice that man has received and then presents this to the mind.

The will acts when the decision to be made presents itself. The spirit of man cannot MAKE him do anything.

My spirit advises me to not sin because it is always aware of God. My will when I sin is to ignore this voice, and thus I sin and go against my spirit.

But I'm still learning on this subject. So take what I say here with salt, I do not wish to lead anyone away from the truth, but to clarify it.

Where in your body does will reside? Where does decision reside? Where does spirit reside?

All three are both internal and external, being present in man's whole being and what presents itself to him.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: WarminIndy

My heart isn't wicked. What's that make me?

S&F OP

Every evil thought generates in the heart. Every action generates in the heart. And you cannot say that you do not sometimes think evil thoughts and you cannot say that every action is good.

But that's your moral relativism, I suppose.

The standard of good or evil is formulated only in your mind, therefore, you might be evil and think you are good. I don't know, but just because you say you are good, doesn't mean that you are good.

The heart of man is wicked above all else, who can understand it.

Thoughts are generated in the heart? Alert your surgeon! Bunk like this alternates between being humorous and pathetic.

Are you so completely materialistic that you think that is what it means? The heart in the Bible does not mean physical heart and you know better than that argument you just made.
.....
Those stars are misleading as well, they don't mean you are right, only that someone agrees with you.

The heart in the Bible does not mean physical heart. OK. And God and Jesus are not to be taken literally, too. Do we agree?

I don't pay any attention to awarded stars. Interesting that you do.

Let me ask this, since you are so materialistic, did the world exist before you were born?

You can only judge the world by what you experience of it, so can you trust that the world existed before you?

You make a false assumption. I am not a materialist (which is what you actually mean) nor am I materialistic. Your question about whether the world I existed before I was born in nonsensical in that it has nothing to do with being a materialist. Of course the world existed before I was born.

You misunderstand materialism entirely.

When did I say that one can only judge the world by that which one experiences of it?

So what you are saying is that there is more beyond the natural realm?

The second part is called "observation and measurement".

So you are saying you "believe" the world existed because you "trust" and have "faith" in those who told you that, or did you "observe" and "measure" the world before you existed?

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: backcase

How would you differentiate spirit and will?

Is will only the spirit / purpose / desire which you enact? Force / spirit which has been used / translated?

Will is determination.

Will simply can't be just determination, because determination is a conscious action. You have heard many times of people who were in comas that came back from very serious and sometimes often fatal injuries because they had "the will to live".

Something in you may be causing your brain and body to stay alive or bring itself back, but it can't simply be because of the person determining it consciously.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: backcase

How would you differentiate spirit and will?

Is will only the spirit / purpose / desire which you enact? Force / spirit which has been used / translated?

Will is determination.

Will simply can't be just determination, because determination is a conscious action. You have heard many times of people who were in comas that came back from very serious and sometimes often fatal injuries because they had "the will to live".

Something in you may be causing your brain and body to stay alive or bring itself back, but it can't simply be because of the person determining it consciously.

Well said. There are many subconscious actions which are not a function of the will of the human. It seems the will is where we may gain merit or fault. That is a principal demonstrated in the garden of Eden.

a reply to: WarminIndy
Jeremiah 17:9

The heart of man is wicked above all else, who can understand it.

Not everyone recognizes a bible quote when they see it. They think you're saying it, if you don't tell them otherwise. Just because you and I have read the bible several times over, doesn't mean everyone else has.

The heart of man is NOT wicked above all else. This is another one of those verses that seeks to make humans innately evil, and in need of some kind of redemption.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: WarminIndy
Jeremiah 17:9

The heart of man is wicked above all else, who can understand it.

Not everyone recognizes a bible quote when they see it. They think you're saying it, if you don't tell them otherwise. Just because you and I have read the bible several times over, doesn't mean everyone else has.

The heart of man is NOT wicked above all else. This is another one of those verses that seeks to make humans innately evil, and in need of some kind of redemption.

You don't think that man is in need of redemption? It it's nutty understanding that we are not entirely evil, but we are inclined to sin. This inclination is what we seek strength for, to never steadfast in love and patient. For of we were entirely good, good deeds would not be merited and attributed to anyone.

a reply to: backcase
No. I reject the very idea that humans are in need of redemption. Humans are in need of much growth as a species.

Sin is a word that denotes disobedience to the false god of the bible. Since the god of the bible does not exist. There is therefore, no such thing as sin. And even if "he" did exist. "He" is no god. He is a monster beyond any evil, any human could ever commit. imo.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: backcase
No. I reject the very idea that humans are in need of redemption. Humans are in need of much growth as a species.

Sin is a word that denotes disobedience to the false god of the bible. Since the god of the bible does not exist. There is therefore, no such thing as sin. And even if "he" did exist. "He" is no god. He is a monster beyond any evil, any human could ever commit. imo.

So you do not deny the idea of God, just YHWH?

The human conscience is enough evidence that the law is written in our hearts and that violation to the true Law is sin.

a reply to: backcase

So you do not deny the idea of God, just YHWH?

I do not believe in the existence of gods/goddesses/deities/divinity. All of which are human concepts.

The human conscience is enough evidence that the law is written in our hearts and that violation to the true Law is sin.

As you wish, but as far as I'm concerned, sin, like deity, is strictly a human concept.

a reply to: Klassified

Do you believe in anything? You seem to find comfort in this forum, whatever you believe.

The human spirit is a metaphor for what one doesn't understand, nor wishes to understand, about the human body. To place blame or credit on it is to nonetheless place blame or credit on oneself, but in a fashion that displays one's refusal to further self-inquiry. The "human spirit" should start all over again and re-define itself.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: backcase
No. I reject the very idea that humans are in need of redemption. Humans are in need of much growth as a species.

Sin is a word that denotes disobedience to the false god of the bible. Since the god of the bible does not exist. There is therefore, no such thing as sin. And even if "he" did exist. "He" is no god. He is a monster beyond any evil, any human could ever commit. imo.

Then there is no judgment that you can place onto God nor onto anyone that believes in God.

With no good or evil then God is neither good nor evil. That's a quandry, how does a God who does not exist have any moral objections placed onto Him and since there can be no moral judgments of good or evil then there is no good or evil in the world. The people doing evil must simply be products of evolution and nothing more.