Did Jesus die for Gods sins?

Just to be fair, I don't buy into any of the religions. You might can tell by the fact I actually put thought into them lol.


I've always had a HUGE problem with the "Jesus died for our sins" narrative. It makes ZERO logical sense. So god your tortured himself to protect us from himself.... If God thought he was wrong about how he had treated humanity to that point, why would he need to die to change it? Why not just start treating humanity better?


Well that lead me to look at it backwards. What if god realized that he had been a fairly evil god up to that point and wanted to change? What if god made himself born a mortal who would be tortured to death to atone for his sins. Like it was his way of showing humanity all the eye for an eye stuff was wrong.

Doesn't that make far more sense than the alternative? Why would the god who had no problem commiting genocide go all "turn the other cheek". Unless he realized he was being an evil god. So Christianity was him attempting to fix his mistakes.

Thoughts?

a reply to: Entreri06

Here's another interesting thought.In the Bible, Jesus forgives people even BEFORE he dies on the Cross.


Like Jesus said:

"If you would have known what this meant: 'I desire mercy not sacrifice', you wouldn't have killed the innocent."

I'll tell you what my born-again Christian father told me..."all of your questions will be answered when you get to heaven".

You will be told by the religious that it takes "Faith" to trust in the fact Jesus died for a reason. Unfortunately in the religious argument, somehow, faith trumps logic. If you prefer logic, then yes, it's absurd that to get the point across, Jesus had to be tortured and nailed to a cross. I'm pretty sure if "God" had just shown himself/herself/itself, or if Jesus performed some crazy miracle/magic that scared people enough to the point we would never question the Bible or the entire belief itself, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Apparently turning water into wine wasn't convincing, but the ten commandments on a stone tablet would suffice.
If you prefer Faith...then faith your little heart out. If life was an RPG then Ken Ham would be a lvl 99 Faith Warlord.

I see Jesus as a teacher that came at his time to do his work but do not buy the whole Paul making him into an idol dying for our sins. To me a mature soul will take responsability of it's action and clean up the mess when it is time not relaying on someone else cleaning up the mess.

To me the spiritual search is to come to an awareness that makes the body infused with light/chi/kundalini. Many religions have their own ways of getting there. If one religion (tool) do not get you there choose another and see what happens. Personally I find more spiritual tools that do something in the eastern philosophies like meditation/reiki/yoga.

a reply to: Entreri06

Jesus died because the Romans nailed him to a cross as he was sprouting things that went against the ideologies of the day . Nothing more , nothing less .

Yea but what about the OP??

Assuming the crucifixtion story is true, could it have been Gods atonement for the evil actions of his past?

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: Entreri06

Jesus died because the Romans nailed him to a cross as he was sprouting things that went against the ideologies of the day . Nothing more , nothing less .

I'm with you, I don't buy it either. But wouldn't it make more sense my way then the doctrine Christianity teaches?

Why would god sacrifice Jesus to make humanity cool with him?? Makes more sense to me that god sacrificed his son to apologize to humanity for being a dick.

It was god showing how sorry he was for the mass murder of millions of innocents.

The men who translated the Bible mixed up the truth and added their own spin to it so people wouldn't understand. They mixed up the jesus history of 3 different men. The first one died 2000 years ago, he thought he was the one to usher in the judgment, but he found out he was 2000 years early so he allowed the authorities to kill him. The next one came to save people and teach the secret knowledge, the last one was raised by the second one to execute the judgment. Like I said these people remixed the Bible so people wouldn't understand and that caused people to not take it seriously.

originally posted by: WatchingY0u
The men who translated the Bible mixed up the truth and added their own spin to it so people wouldn't understand. They mixed up the jesus history of 3 different men. The first one died 2000 years ago, he thought he was the one to usher in the judgment, but he found out he was 2000 years early so he allowed the authorities to kill him. The next one came to save people and teach the secret knowledge, the last one was raised to execute the judgment. Like I said these people remixed the Bible so people wouldn't understand and that caused people to not take it seriously.

I think it was more a "king author" or robin hood type amalagramation. Where they merged the ledgend a of multiple figures to come up with one awsome story, rather then 3 cool ones.

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: WatchingY0u
The men who translated the Bible mixed up the truth and added their own spin to it so people wouldn't understand. They mixed up the jesus history of 3 different men. The first one died 2000 years ago, he thought he was the one to usher in the judgment, but he found out he was 2000 years early so he allowed the authorities to kill him. The next one came to save people and teach the secret knowledge, the last one was raised to execute the judgment. Like I said these people remixed the Bible so people wouldn't understand and that caused people to not take it seriously.

I think it was more a "king author" or robin hood type amalagramation. Where they merged the ledgend a of multiple figures to come up with one awsome story, rather then 3 cool ones.

the Bible talk in riddles and symbolism. In one part it says blessed is he who understand, because they spent it so much they knew only the higher power would untangle it, but in another part it says God isn't the author of confusion.

originally posted by: WatchingY0u

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: WatchingY0u
The men who translated the Bible mixed up the truth and added their own spin to it so people wouldn't understand. They mixed up the jesus history of 3 different men. The first one died 2000 years ago, he thought he was the one to usher in the judgment, but he found out he was 2000 years early so he allowed the authorities to kill him. The next one came to save people and teach the secret knowledge, the last one was raised to execute the judgment. Like I said these people remixed the Bible so people wouldn't understand and that caused people to not take it seriously.

I think it was more a "king author" or robin hood type amalagramation. Where they merged the ledgend a of multiple figures to come up with one awsome story, rather then 3 cool ones.

the Bible talk in riddles and symbolism. In one part it says blessed is he who understand, because they spent it so much they knew only the higher power would untangle it, but in another part it says God isn't the author of confusion.

Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but I don't know how you can realize how much it's been changes and used as a control mechanism and still assume it was ever true in the first place. Seems like at least as much reaching as an evangelical.

a reply to: Entreri06

I have no problem with the idea of some kind of hippie dude walking around sprouting love and peace 2000 years ago , or said dude giving us a set of rules to live by .But lets face it , as cool as Jesus is portrayed to be and him dying for our sins and all that , or gods sins as in your OP . Version 1.0 wasn't a great success in hindsight . When version 2.0 comes down and parts a few seas , cures a few blind people etc . I will take the bible out of the fiction section and place it in the non fiction section .

a reply to: hutch622

What if Jesus is version 2.0 and Moses was version 1.0? They both led people. They both went on a hill to give spiritual teachings.
Maybe God doesn't need a 3.0 because we are 3.0


We already had teachers who taught love and peace to the best of their ability. Now it's time for the students - this new generation to live it.

No reason to blame the teacher for the wisdom the student chooses not to follow outside the classroom.

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: Entreri06

Jesus died because the Romans nailed him to a cross as he was sprouting things that went against the ideologies of the day . Nothing more , nothing less .

I'm with you, I don't buy it either. But wouldn't it make more sense my way then the doctrine Christianity teaches?

Why would god sacrifice Jesus to make humanity cool with him?? Makes more sense to me that god sacrificed his son to apologize to humanity for being a dick.

It was god showing how sorry he was for the mass murder of millions of innocents.

It's a more entertaining version of the myth. I'll give you that. Either way, the whole thing is in the realm of fiction.

originally posted by: WatchingY0u
The men who translated the Bible mixed up the truth and added their own spin to it so people wouldn't understand. They mixed up the jesus history of 3 different men. The first one died 2000 years ago, he thought he was the one to usher in the judgment, but he found out he was 2000 years early so he allowed the authorities to kill him. The next one came to save people and teach the secret knowledge, the last one was raised by the second one to execute the judgment. Like I said these people remixed the Bible so people wouldn't understand and that caused people to not take it seriously.

That's a whopping imagination you've got.

a reply to: arpgme

We already had teachers who taught love and peace to the best of their ability. Now it's time for the students - this new generation to live it.

I think we failed our final exam . Time for 4.0

He died because he rode his donkey into town, threw some tables around, and upset the local mafia that was making stacks of money from the sheep. so they had him err... removed.

a reply to: Entreri06

God had a plan for humans, but in HIS greatness, HE didn't force but allowed freewill. Due to freewill man (both male and female) did break the rules, and so sin entered our lives. But because sin came into our lives through one, God decided the plan for salvation should then also be through one, that way fakes are easier to spot.

In some religions - namely shia Islam as that is what I have knowledge of - says God gave the Imam all units of knowledge but one, and this one unit of knowledge HE kept in HIS Hand and HIS knowledge alone..link

That knowledge that HE kept solely under HIS hand, is the keys to death and hades. LINK No other religion says they carry the keys to death and hades - not one. Not buddism not any other religion has ever claimed this for any prophet. And it is why we need a savior.

After God decrees a thing, it comes to pass. So, in order for the veil of sin (which came down with the sin of Adam) that separates man from God to be torn, someone has to live a perfected and holy life from the beginning of it to the end of it. That someone was Jesus the Messiah.

So, when we accept HIM into our heart as Lord and savior we have the ability to, while still under the veil of sin ourselves, go under HIS tear in that veil, and thus have, through Christ Jesus in us, the ability to live a holy and perfected life so that we may be presented holy before God.

Jesus blood is for our past sins, and the cross is for future sins - so that we may not do them.

Why blood and sacrifice? God ordained sacrifice for transgressions that Israel committed and was to be a tutor, an instructor, until Christ came, but it wasn't for God, it was for man. link

And once God decrees a thing it must come to pass so also HE had to set up the real life visual for the children of Israel, so again they would know that HIS promises are true and they are truly forgiven, and that last sacrifice was Jesus Christ which fulfilled all the law, and reverted us back to the original law God wanted us to live by, and that is found in two commandments, Love God with all your heart, mind and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself.

Sin is transgression against God and God is love.

Know love, Know God ( saysJohn in The Bible).

God holds The Keys to Life and Death because God is Love and Christ's Life demonstrates the promise of God's Love which is received and brings us to eternal life.

The two most important things is to Love God and your neighbor but if you don't know that God IS Love and Light then how can you love him by receiving the free gift of love and eternal life he offers and being filled with praise/gratitude?

Peace to you all.
God loves you.

originally posted by: Entreri06

I've always had a HUGE problem with the "Jesus died for our sins" narrative.

whatever happened to Ezekiel 18:20

'' The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them. "