Something i found interesting... Perhaps ironic?

I don't know if you will find this idea interesting, but I do find it a little amusing to say the least...

The concept of reincarnation is generally denied by Christianity even though there are hints of the teaching found though out the bible. Personally I believe it was a teaching that was removed, perhaps not even written about because the idea removes the authority of the church and relies on the individual and the way he/she acts in this life. Though im sure it was taught by Jesus in my own humble opinion... but the concept pretty much removes the "faith alone" idea... so Paul's teaching is out the window for the most part... heaven forbid!

The idea of being born again can't be more clear, but I believe the early church fathers twisted the idea to something completely opposite of what It was meant to be... turning into something that happens in this life and wandering off into the illogical born again "spiritually"

IF one reads the bible the concept of reincarnation becomes evident when one pieces a passage from here and there and basically sows them all together...

For example... Jesus said one must be born again... He also said I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture... And in Job you'll find him saying that he will return to his mothers womb

Now of course Christians will tell you I am just twisting these passages to suit my "agenda" even though I have none, this is a concept I believe with all my heart... and its found in many other religions as well...

In fact there are even sects of Judaism that fully accept the concept of reincarnation... Called transmigration of the soul

it is most definitely not a positive thing though, I considering like being held back a grade in school... there is no progression in reincarnation so its not something to look forward to

the issue in general is that one must take a few passages and glue them together for it to be obvious to the reader... so one must know where to look to find the teaching.... but generally reincarnation is denied in Christianity

This brings me to the point of this thread...

Christianity denies even the remote possibility of the existence of reincarnation...

(there for placing limits on the Power of God by the way)

Yet if you think about it, the trinity is found using the exact same method for finding reincarnation within the pages of the bible...

The concept is NOT found within the pages of the bible, save two passages that are extremely suspicious... 1John5:7 which we know is an addition to the texts... and one passage in Matthew which Jesus apparently said after he was dead and risen

The word "trinity" is absent from the book... Yet a trinity is believed.... but being born again is there clear as day, but reincarnation is denied even though some sects of the religion that Jesus was a part of believed in it without a doubt

In any case... Im not looking for an argument here... just thought I'd post a few of my thoughts on the concept

Play nice everyone

Thanks for reading

a reply to: Akragon

It has to because if you reincarnate you simply don't go to either heaven or worse still hell - you merely go round again .

Christianity was formed as a means of the velvet glove controlling the people and with a failing roman empire which was splitting in two, the pagan emperor saw the way that by elevating the early church fathers he could keep control through it. Do you honetly think christ would have told people to pay their taxes - he was a jew for heavens sake. Christianity was a means to an end and that is why it does not have a political or legal system that the other two desert religions do.

Do you honestly think that without the carrot and stick it would have had any power after the demise of the emperor. It has always been a religion that frightens and guilt trips people and reincarnation was removed by the council of nicea sometime round 350 ad.

Yes, they definitely toned down Jesus' teachings on reincarnation in my opinion. They didn't change his words, they just left out the "inconvenient" parts that spoke of reincarnation. They didn't leave everything out though, otherwise they wouldn't be able to sell their lie as the truth.

The doorway quote is very interesting and I have never viewed it that way, he's definitely talking about reincarnation.

In my opinion reincarnation is the key to eternal life and knowing that you never truly died, and there is a goal to reincarnation in my opinion because we see it achieved every day with life being born. Life brings joy to those around it, a mother loves nothing more than her newborn baby. There is also a spiritual goal, to come to know yourself. You may achieve it sometimes and other times not, but that's the nature of the cosmos, balance.

Great thread. S&F

a reply to: Akragon

I dont see reincarnation in the bible. When Jesus said we must be born again, He was speaking of our Spirits. As sons of Adam, our spirits are dead from birth, therefore they must be born again.

The bible does teach that we are body, soul, and spirit, and I can personally attest to that, having had my spirit leave my body and soul behind for a 15 minute break or two.

Jesus even said that we must be born of water (birthing fluids) and Spirit.

a reply to: Akragon
Interesting you would bring this to the table, my friend. There was a thread today about the virgin birth that some found offensive. I posted in it about the ancient mystery religions, and the virgin birth. Which, interestingly enough, may be partially what you are looking for here. At the least it ties in...

The doctrine of Virgin Birth is an extremely ancient and common motif (theme) found in the numerous mythologies, legends, and religions throughout our planet.

The slaying of Osiris is Symbolic of the end of one life, or Cycle, so that another life, Cycle, or Incarnation can begin. As Osiris is the Egyptian Neter who personifies re-Incarnation, He represents the continuing Cycles of re-incarnation we must progress through until all of our Inner Demons are slain and Spiritual perfection is accomplished.

It's a short article. Take a look and see what you think. Linky

a reply to: Shiloh7

Well no...

I wrote this thread for this very purpose....

Nicaea had nothing to do with it... We know what went on at that council...

And the idea that one does not go to heaven (the afterlife) before being reincarnated is flawed... One must have said judgement placed upon them before reincarnation occurs

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

If you didn't have the Spirit from birth, you would have been stillborn. The Holy Spirit is what animates the flesh and gives it life.

First they took your Spirit away from you through their teachings then sold you a counterfeit one in its place. You WERE alive but now you're dead with Jesus on the cross.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

The doorway quote is very interesting and I have never viewed it that way, he's definitely talking about reincarnation.

Without a doubt...

I had a discussion about that passage with someone before... they're argument was that he wasn't talking about reincarnation because you go in one side of the door, and out the other side...

I almost slapped him for being so silly.... theres no other way to understand that quote

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I dont see reincarnation in the bible.

Well you are Christian... I honestly wouldn't expect you to...

Its nothing more then heresy to Christianity... because as I've said, it removes the authority of the church

Thank you for your reply though

a reply to: Akragon

Though im sure it was taught by Jesus in my own humble opinion...

Actually He did not teach this at all. It has been written in John 3:16 that “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." This is spiritual, not physical at all. This means that after death, they will live again in Paradise (Heaven on Earth). This can be linked to 1 Corinthians 15:51 which says "We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet." This is referring to the end of time, Revelations. This means that the soul does not go back into another living being.

The soul will stay with the body until the day of Judgement, and will then be called to be either judged of rewarded. As 1 Corinthians has said, you will not be 'waiting around', because your physical body is inside time. The soul and spirit was around even before time.

For example... Jesus said one must be born again... He also said I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture...

He only spoke of spiritual matters, not physical. He was saying that you should lay down your own will, and take up the will of your Father. This was a spiritual teaching, as was all of His teachings.

Reading the Bible in context will avoid much confusion.... Try that sometime

a reply to: Akragon

it removes the authority of the church

Reincarnation removes accountability from yourself...

a reply to: IndependentOpinion

Please feel free to explain how you came to that conclusion?

a reply to: Akragon

Just to avoid misunderstandings, do you believe in heaven and hell?

a reply to: IndependentOpinion

The soul will stay with the body until the day of Judgement, and will then be called to be either judged of rewarded.

and IF the body is destroyed?

This is what I mean by the concept drifting off into the illogical...

IF the soul and spirit were around even before time... what were they doing?

just hangin with God?

Humans have been a blink in the vastness of time... the concept that we only live one time is nonsense if our souls are eternal...

Just to avoid misunderstandings, do you believe in heaven and hell?

Heaven would be whatever the afterlife is... so yes in a sense...

Hell is a manipulation tool based on mans fear of the unknown... used as a means of conversion.... so no I don't believe in the Christian concept of Hell...

a reply to: Akragon

I think you will find that through Constantine at Nicea it was the start of expunging pre-existence, reincarnation and belief in the salvation through union with God although it took another 200 years before it was fully expunged by Justinian.

We know reincarnation was part of hebrew belief when the question "Are you Elijah" was asked of Christ - eg have you reincarnated? However going back to your point that we die, get judged and then reincarnate - where does the reward of heaven or the punishment of hell come in if you reincarnate again? I don't understand your point.


There are other points of interest which come from the Nag Hammadi scrolls which the early church fathers & catholic church did not get their hands on, so we actually have the first legitimate unaltered source documents from that time. We get the picture that Christ was probably a gnostic. This religious view which the early church fathers denied and hated so they hunted and destroyed all gnostic churches and literature is about Jesus view that he was not the one and only son of God, he was the son of man. But one could become a son of God by following the law.

As christianity is born out of judaism one should also remember that with Christ being a Jew and not altering its laws, there was no belief in an actual hell or a heaven as such. There is mention in the bible of Sheol where people go when they die whether good or bad, rich or poor and there is no judgement. Judaism doesn't really specify much for the end of life.

originally posted by: IndependentOpinion
Reincarnation removes accountability from yourself...

I would think that the blanket and all encompassing forgiveness of Christianity removes accountability from the person .. but with reincarnation you have to pay for your own karmic debt ... with reincarnation you are responsible for your own sin debt and everyone else is responsible for their own.

I thought about the same thing just 3 hours ago. People denying reincarnation or the all being in all at once, even tho it is both written in there in multiple meanings.

Reminded me of the guys I bought healthy food from. They believe the religion has been altered 1500 years ago by the war, from old Christianity to this. They believe exactly what I had concluded myself, which I bumped over while checking up a lot to find out the real history of the planet.

a reply to: Akragon

Taken to Hades is my opinion.


Praising Him. That is actually supported by scripture.


We live only once, as humans, on earth.

a reply to: Akragon

Because there is no hell in your view, you will never be held accountable for your actions after death..

a reply to: IndependentOpinion

Actually, the day of the trumpet is when you die. The time and day that Jesus says no one knows? That's the day they will die, only God knows the day you will die. His second coming symbolizes our death as well, when we are raised into a new body through reincarnation/resurrection. Every eye will see him because every eye sees the light when they are born.