The forgotten legacy of reincarnation in early christianity

If it is real then it is likely that those in this life you call loved ones may not be the same as the ones you have called loved ones in other lives.

a reply to: mcChoodles

What a beautiful story! Why that "revelation" came to you at that time and place, could have been any number of reasons. It could have been a combination of the weather, the electro-magnetic energies around that location, your own receptivity at that particular point.

Or it could have been another Soul, possibly dead, who wanted you to get a flash and remember that lifetime. Wars always leave a tangle of emotions that may take many lifetimes to sort out. The Civil War, especially, left particularly tormented Souls to be reborn and still struggle to find meaning in that war. (You recognized your past-life wife as your high school girlfriend. Who else in that funeral party did you recognize? Perhaps a particularly troublesome relative or co-worker who seemed to hate or resent you on sight in this lifetime?)

Maybe that glimpse of your ghost at your funeral is the key. It's "stoicism and objectivity" may have been preventing it (your past life persona), from absorbing all the lessons you were meant to. Maybe that ghostly imprint of your past life has refused to "move on," and is still stuck as a ghost at that location. Maybe you should visit that location, and go hunting for that piece of your Soul that seems to be missing, and is stuck as a ghost at that location.

Many wars are brother against brother, like our Civil War. If you'd been on a positive Soul-path with your brother to be brothers and best friends helping each other in future lifetimes, what happens if you suddenly chose to fight on different sides? Or one brother even kills the other?

Medicine was so rudimentary, that wounds didn't kill men - infections did, after days or weeks of painful suffering. It's been this way in many past, primitive wars. To the minds of soldiers, who die horrible deaths in war after war, it can create some very negative lasting effects in the Soul:

1) The idea that Pain always comes with war wounds, and must be embraced to survive. This creates weak spots in a Soul, and in future lifetimes the men have medical problems tied to these past lives. From embracing pain and not telling anyone, for a medical problem that can be fixed. To problems with certain limbs that were cut off in a war like our Civil War.

Their souls had "embraced" the idea of missing limbs, and that nothing could be done, so they just had to suffer on untll death. These men many times have problems with that same once-missing leg or arm in future lifetimes, until they "un-embrace" its war wound deformation, and can visualize their bodies as God intended: perfect and robust, capable of correct and just action against any challenge.

2) Being strong and brave in battle translates well to men who can make - and stick to - tough decisions in civilian life. But traumatic events can create traumatic memories, and then you have the crippling aspects of PTSD. Moving beyond that soul-wound is hard, but embracing the opposite qualities of evil (bravery and decisiveness for the Greater Good) is a step toward healing.

3) One of the hardest aspects of fighting in a war, is for men to see other men killed whom they considered "better than me." This Survivor's Guilt is real, and can hold a Soul back from advancing in future lifetimes, whether they feel unworthy compared to those who died. Or subconsciously don't ever want to become "that guy" - and too easily get dead.

(NOTE: Wars are horrible, but there will always be wars worth fighting - that MUST be fought - to stop an evil that can not be stopped any other way. WWII was like that. But since then we've been slipping into an Age of Elitist Wars, fought only to line greedy and corrupt pockets of the Global Elitists.)

a reply to: maes2

I don't believe that 'duality in existence is contrary to wisdom.' The cosmos is all about Balance, the endless fire-dance between Good and Evil, the eternal Yin/Yang of finding that fine edge between both extremes as the best place to live and grow.

Too much Good makes people complacent, lazy, and too willing to drift into the greyness of mind-altering substances, and embracing questionable ideas. Without meaningful challenges, a Soul can drift toward negativity, even among peaceful abundance and surface Goodness.

Too much Evil, and you have a long string of horrible, short lifetimes of starvation, disease, war and endless tears and loss. The Soul doesn't advance, it just tries to survive, until it learns that accomplishing Great Things take the Great Effort of many, working together.

"... We also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character; and character, Hope."
The Bible - Romans 5:3-4

a reply to: stosh64

Great post, thanks for sharing.

In the End Times, God will provide tests to separate out the Good from the Evil. I don't personally believe in the Rapture, but it seems to me that God and his "angels" (or "Souls of good men made perfect") give mankind every chance to turn away from evil. The tipping-point comes when the accumulation of evil (original and recruited) threatens to destroy a wider arena - like nuclear weapons do to the fabric of Space/Time.

And if we destroy this beautiful planet, we'll be wandering Souls for a long time, settling for new worlds that aren't as nice. And dreaming of a gorgeous, perfect planet we were privileged to live on for a time - and destroyed. Talk about mega-Karma ...

"Can you bind the cluster of the Pleiades, or loosen the belt of Orion? Can you bring Marzzaroth in its season? Or can you guide the Great Bear with its cubs? Do you know the ordinances of the heavens? Can you set their dominion over the Earth?"
Job 38:31-33

I personally would love to believe in reincarnation, especially the fact the ones we hold close will be there in the next many lives. As to how reincarnation works it, well it doesn't seem to have been made up yet. Would a soul having completed some cosmic role(big or small) be ready to accept a body for how it is, looks, and feel will just stick with it till the end of time regardless if its primitive to a advanced stage of civilization. Or does the soul goes though many different lives before it could make up it mind.

Look at Christianity for example, it started off as rebellious, challenging pagan or older mono laws where as it stake in the matter of believe was the freedom of expression but one of kindness. Then, many centuries this kindness and love became superstitious and wrought with fear, and a lust for power. Where it changed the face of the earth, where as the expression of this fear and superstition had run it course, and it felt like their God had ignored their pleas of salvation, or luxury. Now a days most Christians won't hurt a fly, or have some understanding of freedom now, since its possibly the most popular religion now.

Will Islam have to go through a similar transition, where as the idea of faith and rewards will be tested like the earlier two mono religions? I mean the Jews started off superstitious as well, where they had an immense amount of zeal thousands of years ago, to have been attacked and almost wiped out in the recent century because they didn't fight back with the zeal they had when they fought each other, let alone the greeks and romans?

And if it does make up it mind, and feels completed, or otherwise the ideas of attaining nirvana or reaching Jesus for that matter, then what purpose does it serve in the cosmic engine? Something of a determinism factor?

There is one movie called "Cloud Atlas" and tries to go into the ideas of reincarnation, but it kind of weak in its attempt I find, since only one story works along side with the other.

a reply to: stosh64

It's the same, ageless idea of "divide and conquer." Stoke up ridiculous hatreds (and even wars) with Religion versus Religion, Country versus Country, and People versus People.

Evil loves to isolate and create un-needed barriers. It stokes mistrust that starts to work on your mind, even in the absence of any other negative stimuli. That's why schools are so boring. Knowledge is liberating and fascinating, but our schools refuse the more difficult path of teaching whole-topics and how they are inter-related. We teach science in one box, mathematics in another box, music over in that box, and so on.

And while the Internet seemed to be a great equalizer, initially, certain evil Agendas went into overdrive to divide-and-conquer. With shills creating confusion and hesitation, stoking hatreds, and twisting Truths that have stood since the beginning of Time, all over the cosmos.

Even our own personal soul-history has been suppressed - Reincarnation. Check out all the books on Reincarnation out there (Amazon is a good starting place). There are books on small children who led their families to the very house they had died in, and correctly named details few others knew.

There are books on Past Life Regressions. There are books on Edgar Cayce, The Sleeping Prophet, who spoke about reincarnation while in trance, like it was an established fact that all intelligent people should embrace. Even books by psychiatrists who practice Past Life Therapy. Here are some of the best.

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1421614048&sr=1-1&keywords=reincarnation+ %26+past+lives+-+Many+Mansions
MANY LIVES, MANY MASTERS
The #1 Best Seller in Amazon's category of "Philosophy and Metaphysics"

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1421614225&sr=1-2&keywords=reincarnation+% 26+past+lives+-+Many+Mansions
MANY MANSIONS: THE EDGAR CAYCE STORY ON REINCARNATION

www.amazon.com...=pd_rhf_se_s_cp_4_66J8?ie=UTF8&refRID=093EQDM85YT16ZXFJQKE
CHILDREN'S PAST LIVES: HOW PAST LIFE MEMORIES AFFECT YOUR CHILD

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Good post! And I agree, it benefits the Elitists/SlaveMasters/Manipulators to make us all think this is our only lifetime, and only THEY can tell us how to live it to get to Heaven. (Parents with multiple children, raised in the same environment with equal treatment, know well how "different" each child is. From their personalities, to the foods they love or hate, to the activities and passionate interests they choose. So parents, especially, should have a clue about Reincarnation just by looking at their own kids!)

But Suicide, like Incest and Preying on Children, are great, cosmic crimes that almost all universal civilizations disallow. Besides, your body is many times God's first and greatest gift to you. God has created your body from your beloved parents' DNA, using great care to infuse it with lessons-to-be-learned and past-loves to help support you and ease your journey thru this lifetime. It is never to be treated badly or discarded lightly!

Besides, ghosts of suicides will tell you it never solves anything. NEVER! It's really a set-back, your Soul just stuck in limbo, the same trials and tribulations awaiting you in the next lifetime.

Besides, maybe that unsurmountable-challenge that makes you contemplate suicide, may be one of those "trials and tribulations" you agreed to work thru in this lifetime. And God and His "angels" aren't heartless. If you are at that point, you need to look around. God always puts someone near you in the most desperate circumstances, that can help you if you reach out. Think of all the names, phone numbers or people you suddenly thought of or dreamed about.

But suicides for passing-problems is much different that being enslaved and daily abused. So God has a sliding scale for punishing suicides. And if you're not chained to a wall and being daily starved and raped, you'd darn well better be able to explain to God or His "angels" why you trashed a perfectly healthy body!

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Thanks for your post. And I like that term, "Bootstrap Reincarnation", even if it omits the idea that YOU help plan your next Life, and understand subconsciously what skills and relationships you have to work on. It validates the idea that each and every Intelligent Life "has value," and that there is a cosmic wide progression toward the spiritual pinnacle.

Some people think there might have been another universe before the Big Bang, one that sank so deep into evil that God hit the ReSet button. BOOM! So now we are deep into another universe, and a chance to get it right this time. Some (very few) progressed and learned in that previous universe, and don't have to incarnate again. They are the Angels, or the Good-Men-Made-Perfect.

The rest of us got shuffled with smaller, mostly positive Souls, to see if we could grow and develop in the right direction this time. But now on Earth, evil Souls are aggregating, and we have a mega-evil like Ghost-rider's "Leeeeeeeegion."

So, personally, I listen to everyone but believe very few. And I'm driven toward betterment by the Truth of God - NOT some dirtbag flea or demi-god "just passing by".

"Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills; and whom He wills, He hardens."
Romans 9:18

a reply to: NihilistSanta

Thanks for your post. But I don't think the idea of Reincarnation falls flat upon close examination. Cultures with little compassion that believe in Reincarnation, are being over-whelmed with other, more immediate problems - from over-population to disease to starvation to ever-smaller sources of fresh water. These problems are endemic in most Third World countries today. And those populations agreed to reincarnate into those difficult, possibly suffering societies, which must be where they have karma to work out, and reincarnated Souls of loved ones they want to reconnect with.

And as far as the appearance that the greedy, wealthy elitists are "more equal than most," being wealthy has its own challenges and rewards. The biggest one being how to NOT become corrupted by such largesse, as well as how to protect your family (especially children) from the drug dealers and charlatan predators drawn to the rich, like a moth to a flame.

And for Old Souls, they've cycled thru lives both rich and poor, and have been born into circumstances from Ideal to Horrific. You learn, you cope, you move on.

Since tomorrow's Martin Luther King Day, I wonder if anyone is following the drama playing out in Atlanta courtrooms between his children. MLK struggled and struggled because, whatever his other faults, he was trying to "lift up" and entire sub-population - not just himself. And yet his grown children (who are already millionaires from selling their father's papers), are squabbling over selling both the Family Bible and MLK's Peace Prize! Neither of which should EVER leave their family.

I mean, we are repatriating artifacts locked in dusty museums, back to the American Indians, who consider those artifacts part of their Tribal Soul. Even Greece is slowly getting some of its magnificent, Ancient Greek statues back. Nations and peoples have Souls too, that gives the individuals a sense of belonging and their culture a validation. Same with families. If you are in desperate circumstances, then sell what you can. But if you are a child of MLK, and already a millionaire, why on God's Green Earth would you want to sell a piece of your family's soul?

patch.com...
FIGHT LOOMS OVER NOBEL PEACE PRIZE AND FAMILY BIBLE

MLK's children may be Young Souls who haven't had a rich lifetime before. So I'm following this story, to see how this plays out.

If the Christians believed in reincarnation 2,000 years ago and it got suppressed by TBTB when the Catholic church formed where are all those enlightened Christians nowaday.They should have enlightened the masses through all their centuries of reincarnation.There should be at a few wise Christian people espousing Truth yet the evidence testifies otherwise.

According to karmic re-incarnation theory the majority of people should be "spiritually awakened" and functional yet the evidence doesn’t present that at all either.Those that are criticizing the Christians for believing their dogmatized religion of faith believe in “faith” an even bigger myth of karmic re-incarnation .

Karmic re-incarnation is the left hand telling the right hand what it is doing where the culmination is total self absorption.The reason people believe in karmic re-incarnation as a justification of their false beliefs is no different in function (except it is cake in the re-bake) than a belief in pie in the sky heaven beliefs.

However the karmic re-incarnation believer is completely blind to the most basic maxim of “to do the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the highest form of insanity”.In othere words ...It is not reasonable to believe by living a lower flawed life over and over that that life can grow to a higher unflawed one.It is not a cycle of life but a vicious cycle of death.The only thing to stop the cycle is death and for it to never exist.

In other .other words it is not reasonable to believe by repeating a process that is doomed to fail(die) over and over again that it can produce a state of success (life).The great fallacy is you learn from your mistakes.That is not true at all.You learn from success and doing things correctly,repeating mistakes only cause more mistakes to become a habitual cycle of failure.In other words mistakes must die not live again to progenerate themselves.

To hold onto beliefs of a future vicious cycle of death is death.It would be impossible for a person to free themselves from it because they could not perceive what is the root cause of their habitual failure flaws.In other,other.other words the nature of being flawed is to “know” only flawedness.The flawed perceive everything through their flawed perceptive which the nature of mans flaw is their belief in faith of their Belief System religion.It is inescapable and false perception is it’s inevitability.

Karmic re-incarnation is just another flawed BS religion perception.It is a hope clinged to in faith.It is understandable why people want it just like a pie in the sky however it is just wanting to eat it’s karmic cake and to have it too.If a form of re-incarnation is true it is not anything like mans BS religion about it.To know it would be to not form or have any faith in it at all.Traditional (or any) belief in karmic re-incarnation cannot be true because it will be based in BS religion.

When Yahoshua said you must be born anew he definitely did not say …and again and again and again…ad infinitum. He understood the process and outlined to Nicodemus.You don’t enter into a ”physical womb” again and again to be born anew you are FINALLY born into LIFE(which he called spirit).

It should be infinitely obvious life in the physical realm is not a process(progress) of “life” it is a process to death.It is more like a caterpillar lifes process leading to enter the cocoon of death(to the caterpillar) and emerge a butterfly because that is the nature of a butterfly.It is a metamorphous never to return being a caterpillar again.The key point is the whole process is being done “to” the caterpillar not by them.They do not “will” or act more butterflyly to sprout those wings.It’s their butterfly nature… something they have NOTHING to do with because they were born that way.

If believing in karmic re-incarnation gives someone hope then they should(and will) believe it however…. it is not truth.Just as pie in the sky heaven is not truth but gives billions hope.That is the sweetness of the pie and cakes sole purpose unfortunately the consequences of believing lies is very high.It will distort the truth in the caterpillars life until if it becomes(and usually does) the foundation of belief until the pie and cake consumes the believer.

Pie and cake taste good but they are a very unhealthy diet to live on and eventually will cause death if it is the only diet….the true food of manna(what you need, not what you want) can taste very bland.It has no promises of sugary sweet highs of pie or cake.However it is a reasonable diet.The true elements of cake and pie will taste much better when they are known for what they really are when manna is the staple food.

a reply to: MKMoniker

Just a little correction: people don't reincarnate as animals or anything lower. Reincarnation is always a progression upward, toward joining the Godhead.

I totally agree with you. I never bought the 'maybe an animal or plant' thing.

Once one reaches 'human', they continue onward. Just like a kindergartener who reaches 5th grade doesn't get pushed back to kindergarten just because they fumbled the kick-ball at recess.

PEOPLE ARE JUST TOO WRAPPED UP in their 'holy books'. It's ridiculous, and right now, I don't care who sees this.
Put me on a list, send a team of assassins, whatever....The so-called 'holy texts' are..... well......





bunk.

In fact, the Bible makes claims to reincarnation in the Gospels. There is reference to both John the Baptist and Jesus as being eariier prophets reborn. I can't cite chapter and verse on this but read it on several occassions.

And there is all manner of talk of a 'second coming'....

Ah here we go John the Baptist as Elijah (Matthew 11:13-14).

originally posted by: superman2012
Interesting supposed reincarnation cases.

See the documentary "Unistaken Child" (en.wikipedia.org...), it's pretty convincing and beautiful besides.

a reply to: MKMoniker

In the End Times, God will provide tests to separate out the Good from the Evil.

No. This so-called 'God' is not going to do ANYTHING. Why can't you see this?????

Although I did agree with what you said about humans destroying the planet:

And if we destroy this beautiful planet, we'll be wandering Souls for a long time, settling for new worlds that aren't as nice. And dreaming of a gorgeous, perfect planet we were privileged to live on for a time - and destroyed. Talk about mega-Karma ...

Mega-karma, indeed.

Christian belief is/was a lot based on fear and guilt.
There is a man sitting in heaven who judges people, and then decides whether they go "to heaven" or "to hell", for all eternity, mind you. Those who are "in between", which are allowed to go to heaven but need to be "cleansed" from "medium sins" are thrown in a fire where their sins are burned away by scorching flames. "Cleaning the sinners" and burning them alive is the guardian of hell or purgatory, a horned "demon being" which is assisting god with this task... (ROFLMAO).

Obviously, such a "religion" has a problem with the idea that there is no eternal heaven or hell and that souls may reincarnate. This would go all against their fear and guilt teachings....so of course it was banned : )

originally posted by: deadeyedick
If it is real then it is likely that those in this life you call loved ones may not be the same as the ones you have called loved ones in other lives.

we might have the same loved ones 'most of the time' but not always for various reasons

originally posted by: LABTECH767
I am opening this thread hoping for intelligent and constructive discussion, this is not for argument's about religion (Christianity in particular but it is open to related beliefs as well) or who is right and who is wrong but simply for an open minded discussion between those who wish to partake of this thread.

That said let's get down to business.

Now as some of you may know the early pre Constantine church was actually made up of many sect's of Christians with often different or disharmonious belief's, Gnosticism was one of the greatest of these Christian paths' that was suppressed and eventually wiped out by the organized and now state religion.

In Judaism at the time of the Roman occupation reincarnation was actually quite a common belief as well as some other groups in the same area and today still lingers in sects such as the drew's of Palastine, the west bank and Lebanon but what is often forgotten is that it was also a common belief among some but not all early Christian sect's especially the Gnostic sect's.

Forget about UFO's for a moment and take another look again at the wheel's of Ezekiel's Chariot, among the Buddhist and Hindus there is a concept of the wheel of life, the soul is bound to this wheel and comes back around until it reaches a state of perfection and is released.

The Ladder of Jacob Similarly he saw the servant's of God going up and down it from heaven to the earth, where they merely angels of where they soul's being incarnated when they came down the ladder and going up when they had died.

Here is some related information on the topic but having now opened the debate I shall beat a retreat and see how it unfolds.

www.near-death.com...
jacobisrael.com...
gnosticwarrior.com...
ezinearticles.com...
www.aish.com...
www.chabad.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

www.christians.eu...
www.tertullian.org...
www.iisis.net...
facts-are-facts.com...


A final note, I am open but do not profess a belief as to reincarnation either way though I do believe in the soul and I am a Christian by my own faith, this is still highly interesting as a subject though and even some atheists as though they may not believe in a god some do still believe in a soul and profess an open mindedness to the concept of reincarnation and so I welcome there discussion on this.

A belief in reincarnation and many of the philosophies related proposes a far more logical universe theologically than that posited by current judeo-Christian conceptions.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Hello LABTECH767

I have been studying Pythagorean Hylozoics for the past two years, which truly is the secret ancient knowledge passed down though the secret schools for thousands of years. If you have any doubts about what I say please read it for yourselves HERE, It has been condensed into what I can only describe as a scientific study of the nature of reality.

Not only will you discover that reincarnation is real, but you will understand how the entire process works and the various planes of existence we journey through after each life. You will understand the evil in the world today and the protection we are afforded by beings of immense power who have nothing but our best interests at heart. This knowledge laid the foundation for all of our world religions and is the unadulterated truth before it became obfuscated by those who used it to enslave us.

There is much controversy regarding the source of this knowledge as presented over the past 100 years and many people are deterred from studying it, as it is referred to as ‘the occult’ which simply means ‘hidden knowledge’ however it has taken on the negative connotation of ‘Black Magic’ or has taken on satanic overtones, due to the practices of people such as Alistair Crowley.

I believe this demonising of the esoteric knowledge was orchestrated to keep good people away from discovering the truth of our reality, the knowledge of which I feel I have a fairly complete understanding now. There is much about the dark side that is true, but the full truth is entirely about love and unity of all life and the consciousness evolution of us all, as we journey through the Mineral, Vegetable, Animal and Human Kingdoms on our path to the Essential and Divine Kingdoms.

I have read through many of the posts on this thread and some of the contributions contain a fairly accurate understanding of the truth. All I would like to add is that a fuller understanding would be incomplete without some of the detail being fleshed out.

You will understand that the subject is immense and something I have dedicated much deep thought and consideration to. For anybody that is interested I would be happy to answer a few questions at the risk of presenting myself as some sort of guru, as I am certainly not that. I can however provide some insight into what I can only describe as the most fascinating, compelling explanation of the reality of life I have ever studied, as explained by Pythagoras and passed down though various schools and confirmed by individuals who have achieved causal consciousness.

a reply to: MKMoniker

Christianity didn't "make up" Reincarnation. It's been a long-held tenet of the Hindu religion:

LOL...

I certainly did not suggest Christianity made up reincarnation...