Christian Complaint that Baker Refuses to Decorate Cake with Anti-Gay Message

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Jamie1
No, it's the older guy's son in the video from what I can tell.

You don't know that. You're speculating. No need to confuse the issue. That's a different case.

Speculating? Seriously? Isn't that the point of ATS?

Theodore Shoebat, the son of right-wing activist Walid Shoebat, put on his muckracking boots recently in a failed attempt to show how hypocritical LGBT supporters can be when it comes to the subject of bakers making food items that seemingly violate their beliefs.

shoebat.com...

It's the same family. The source mentions the Duck Dynasty campaign.

So the trouble making Christian in this case is an ex Muslim Brotherhood member.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic


But the baker is still discriminating, making a distinction, based on their own personal views. The other guy wasn't allowed to do that.

The customer here was trying to get the baker to decorate a cake in a manner that is obviously offensive to the baker personally. For the christian baker it was was no less offensive really than putting two men's name on a wedding cake or a figurine of two men.

If the baker has a policy of not putting curse words or derogatory words on cakes, and has enforced this policy for ALL customers regardless of the purchaser's religion, he is not discriminating.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic


It really is incredibly pathetic and spiteful that religious zealots would go out of their way to offend people.
As you pointed out in your OP the cases are not remotely comparable but that won't stop every proud and righteous Christian coming in here spewing phony outrage.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic


But the baker is still discriminating, making a distinction, based on their own personal views. The other guy wasn't allowed to do that.

The customer here was trying to get the baker to decorate a cake in a manner that is obviously offensive to the baker personally. For the christian baker it was was no less offensive really than putting two men's name on a wedding cake or a figurine of two men.

If the baker has a policy of not putting curse words or derogatory words on cakes, and has enforced this policy for ALL customers regardless of the purchaser's religion, he is not discriminating.

NO!!1

It doesn't matter what words the baker puts on the cake! The law only says he has to sell the cakes without discriminating. If a Jew came in the day before and asked for a cake that says, "I hate Christians" and the baker made it, he still has the right to put whatever he wants on the Christian's cake... or not.

There is no law forcing editorial content be given to the consumer.

Do you think you can force the LA Times to write a story that you want just because you buy a paper?

a reply to: Jamie1

Right, but in the OP, the baker CLEARLY said that she has a policy of not putting inflammatory words and phrases on her cakes. Therefore, such things are products she doesn't sell. This is the baker's personal policy and the customer is demanding she violate it to honor the customer's religion.

Heck, if anything, customer should be countersued for trying to force the business to sell something it has a policy not to sell. That'll show that smug asshole.

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic


But the baker is still discriminating, making a distinction, based on their own personal views. The other guy wasn't allowed to do that.

The customer here was trying to get the baker to decorate a cake in a manner that is obviously offensive to the baker personally. For the christian baker it was was no less offensive really than putting two men's name on a wedding cake or a figurine of two men.

If the baker has a policy of not putting curse words or derogatory words on cakes, and has enforced this policy for ALL customers regardless of the purchaser's religion, he is not discriminating.

NO!!1

It doesn't matter what words the baker puts on the cake! The law only says he has to sell the cakes without discriminating. If a Jew came in the day before and asked for a cake that says, "I hate Christians" and the baker made it, he still has the right to put whatever he wants on the Christian's cake... or not.

There is no law forcing editorial content be given to the consumer.

Do you think you can force the LA Times to write a story that you want just because you buy a paper?

I think we're on the same page, actually. I'm saying the Baker isn't discriminating if he has a "no naughty/derogatory words" policy that he/she enforces with all customers. It's just a simple policy. It would be like asking a baker to draw a pair of huge exposed boobs on the cake. It's naughty, so no. Now, if said baker DOES draw these hypothetical boobs, but then turns around and says "No anti-gay cakes", that could open the door for this christian fellow to have a discrimination case.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Jamie1

Right, but in the OP, the baker CLEARLY said that she has a policy of not putting inflammatory words and phrases on her cakes. Therefore, such things are products she doesn't sell. This is the baker's personal policy and the customer is demanding she violate it to honor the customer's religion.

Heck, if anything, customer should be countersued for trying to force the business to sell something it has a policy not to sell. That'll show that smug asshole.

Agree. But that's irrelevant. The baker could just as easily have a policy of using his own discretion and only writing things he likes to write.

There is no law forcing the baker to comply with any editorial guidelines. He is free to choose what he writes, like a ghostwriter.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic


But the baker is still discriminating, making a distinction, based on their own personal views. The other guy wasn't allowed to do that.

The customer here was trying to get the baker to decorate a cake in a manner that is obviously offensive to the baker personally. For the christian baker it was was no less offensive really than putting two men's name on a wedding cake or a figurine of two men.

If the baker has a policy of not putting curse words or derogatory words on cakes, and has enforced this policy for ALL customers regardless of the purchaser's religion, he is not discriminating.

NO!!1

It doesn't matter what words the baker puts on the cake! The law only says he has to sell the cakes without discriminating. If a Jew came in the day before and asked for a cake that says, "I hate Christians" and the baker made it, he still has the right to put whatever he wants on the Christian's cake... or not.

There is no law forcing editorial content be given to the consumer.

Do you think you can force the LA Times to write a story that you want just because you buy a paper?

I think we're on the same page, actually. I'm saying the Baker isn't discriminating if he has a "no naughty/derogatory words" policy that he/she enforces with all customers. It's just a simple policy. It would be like asking a baker to draw a pair of huge exposed boobs on the cake. It's naughty, so no. Now, if said baker DOES draw these hypothetical boobs, but then turns around and says "No anti-gay cakes", that could open the door for this christian fellow to have a discrimination case.

LOL... no it wouldn't.

There is no law demanding artists be required to be "equal" or "fair" in the content of their art.

It's the very essence of the 1st Amendment.

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic


But the baker is still discriminating, making a distinction, based on their own personal views. The other guy wasn't allowed to do that.

The customer here was trying to get the baker to decorate a cake in a manner that is obviously offensive to the baker personally. For the christian baker it was was no less offensive really than putting two men's name on a wedding cake or a figurine of two men.

If the baker has a policy of not putting curse words or derogatory words on cakes, and has enforced this policy for ALL customers regardless of the purchaser's religion, he is not discriminating.

NO!!1

It doesn't matter what words the baker puts on the cake! The law only says he has to sell the cakes without discriminating. If a Jew came in the day before and asked for a cake that says, "I hate Christians" and the baker made it, he still has the right to put whatever he wants on the Christian's cake... or not.

There is no law forcing editorial content be given to the consumer.

Do you think you can force the LA Times to write a story that you want just because you buy a paper?

I think we're on the same page, actually. I'm saying the Baker isn't discriminating if he has a "no naughty/derogatory words" policy that he/she enforces with all customers. It's just a simple policy. It would be like asking a baker to draw a pair of huge exposed boobs on the cake. It's naughty, so no. Now, if said baker DOES draw these hypothetical boobs, but then turns around and says "No anti-gay cakes", that could open the door for this christian fellow to have a discrimination case.

LOL... no it wouldn't.

There is no law demanding artists be required to be "equal" or "fair" in the content of their art.

It's the very essence of the 1st Amendment.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with your assertion. But in light of the recent judgement against a baker for refusing bake a cake for a gay wedding, the legal waters have the potential to become muddy.

As a side note, I see untapped potential for someone to now open an exclusively offensive bakery. You want boobs on your cake? You got it Mr. Customer! You hate gays? Do you want the hellfire bright red or burnt amber, sir? You want an anti-jew cake? How many swastikas would you like shown, Mr. skinhead?

One could do very well in such a business.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
As a side note, I see untapped potential for someone to now open an exclusively offensive bakery. You want boobs on your cake? You got it Mr. Customer? You hate gays? Do you want the hellfire bright red or burnt amber, sir? You want an anti-jew cake? How many swastikas would you like shown, Mr. skinhead?

One could do very well in such a business.

OMG! That's brilliant!!!

The other case re the florist is similar. The florist is arguing that she did not deny service to the gay couple.

The core principle is that artists and writers are not required to conform what they write based on their customers' demands.

**Edit**

On second thought, I'd rather not participate in religious debate or news. My apologies.

The double standard is strong in this thread...

originally posted by: ThomasMore
**Edit**

On second thought, I'd rather not participate in religious debate or news. My apologies.

Aw, I thought your original post was very insightful. Welcome to ATS, by the way!

originally posted by: ThomasMore
**Edit**

On second thought, I'd rather not participate in religious debate or news. My apologies.

You should not have deleted your post. It made sense and it's refreshing to see moderate Christian views.

a reply to: ThomasMore

Dude. That was the most poignant post in this thread.

originally posted by: Jamie1
It's the same family.

The same family as what???

The name of the man in this thread (source in the OP) has not been released.

Yes, there is a father and son who CALLED 13 bakeries in California and asked for anti-gay hate speech to be put on cakes, but it has nothing to do with the case in this thread, where a man visited a Colorado bakery.

www.christianpost.com...

originally posted by: EternalSolace
The double standard is strong in this thread...

I find it hilarious that a LGBT bakery was selectively targeted just like Christian bakers were selectively targeted.

It's not an LGBT bakery. It's a bakery that doesn't discriminate against LGBT people(Widely known). Nice to see that you see this for what it is though. Targeted for an agenda. "Christian bakers"? How does one know if it's a Christian bakery?

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Kinda sad that the guy decided to include his son on his bigoted calling spree.