Christian Complaint that Baker Refuses to Decorate Cake with Anti-Gay Message

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: Jamie1
Unless you are a photographer in NM.

Why is that? I'm not familiar with what you're referring to.

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: EternalSolace

Human rights supersede religious rights.

You are wrong, nowhere on this Earth exist "human rights" ALL of them come from some religious background.

And that is the root of why these problems are so hard to deal with , and will never go away, EVERYTHING is rooted in religious beliefs whether you care to believe it or not.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
This is an interesting twist and I must say, I saw it coming. A Christian man has asked a Colorado baker (who is known to be LGBT-friendly) to decorate a cake with an anti-gay slogan, and the baker is refusing. Therefore, the Christian is complaining, claiming his religious rights are being violated.

He must have not read his bible, as he missed

John 13:34

A new commandment I give to you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

Haha that is funny, just how did he "love" them, maybe this IS how they are suppose to treat one another, nothing has changed at all !!

a reply to: ParasuvO

That's hardly true, ethics and morality can come about just fine through secular reasoning and logic.

There are reasons other than religious ones to do well by others. The, it all comes from religion, is a crock of # religious people try to sell to make it seem like the only reason anyone ever does anything right by others is because of religion and that without it everyone would turn into sociopathic monsters. It's complete BS. Everythin good I've ever done in my life I can explain why I did it, and why I believe it was the right thing to do, and I can do it with logic and reasoning complete devoid of any scripture or belief in fantastic beings or an afterlife.

a reply to: Jamie1

So why the giant uproar about a Christian bakery not wanting to sell a cake ??

That is all, why did they get such coverage, that it made many ill.

Discrimination will always occur, I am just wondering why this group is always shocked and surprised when people do not like what they do.

a reply to: Puppylove

Right, the religious people DO NOT say it all comes from religion, only careful research into the origins of it all DOES.

Religious people say that MOST comes from other sources, you have been bamboozled by the religious, and NOT religious crowd.

This is the point, the majority has no idea what all of this society evolved from, and that literally every problem is based on interpretations FOR or AGAINST a religion.

I.E. someones idea of why we are here, and THOSE ideas seem to originate from something that loves the chaos here.

Only way to actually see if anyone can prove they have thoughts of there own, is too separate people from ANY stories about anything from birth, and watch what happens.

I can guarantee they will not be anything like 99.999999999999999999999999999999% to infinity and beyond of anyone in this world.

They may genetically be programmed , but they can escape it much easier outside of all these "NORMS".

I know people have a hard time believing this, but I will say it anyways, got any thoughts OUTSIDE of the box of things you have been taught ??

I know I do.

The individual purchasing the cake should have applauded and supported the owner.

That would have supported any argument for a business owner having the right to conduct business the way he/she saw fit.

As in the case of the bakery that refused to participate in a gay wedding. . .

As in the case of the restaurant that refused service to anyone carrying a firearm. . . .

I will support the business owner.

Stupid People
Do stupid things

This is very different from the other cases where bakers and other professionals have been hit with discrimination charges. In more than one of those cases money had already exchanged hands and only when the baker or whoever found out the customers were gay did they then go back on providing services.

This case they offered to provide the man services that they would have provided to any other person regardless of his race, religion, gender or sexual orientation. They also denied him a portion of requested services that they also would have denied anyone regardless of their race, religion, gender or sexual orientation. This is pretty simple.

As a baker and cake decorator, I would like to offer a different perspective. There is an alchemy to baking. Hopefully I can explain this properly. First, there is the intention. Cakes mark physically, joyful celebrations. Not only are they a symbol of the celebration, but they are ingested. They should be as delicious and they are beautiful. They effect several of the senses and are typically enjoyed and add to a heightened emotional state.

The process of baking requires precise measurements, temp, adjustments for altitude and humidity. Decorating is subjective to the decorator and no two cakes are exactly alike. The goal is to make the recipient happy.

That being said, I have made cakes for straight weddings, gay weddings, boob cakes, kids cakes...you name it. The key is spreading joy in the appropriate setting. Only once was I very close to refusing one. It was for a baby shower for a woman who was giving the child up for adoption. I was afraid it would be hurtful to the mother. Luckily, that one was cancelled.

No to the issue, I applaud the baker for offering to bake the cake and give the customer the piping bag with tip and icing to write their own message. In this way she was not responsible for the outcome of the effects of the cake.

Hateful things do not belong on cake. It goes against the nature of cake itself. You would not use a hammer to trim your fingernails.

All this wasted time, all this IDIOCY, over what an obvious bigot and $H!T-stirrer tried to do with a cake. A CAKE.
"But my religious freedom blah blah blah"
"But my Constitutional rights were infringed blah blah blah"
In case anyone forgot, it's a private business. PRIVATE. PRIVATELY OWNED, not a slave to the public and/or the whims of any lunkhead that may wander in off the street with malicious ideas.
It's THEIR shop. If the customer(?) doesn't like what they won't do and causes a stink, tell them to leave. If they won't have them arrested for trespassing.
"But what if this or that, the supreme court, legal cases blah blah blah"

IT'S A CAKE. SUGAR AND BREAD.

PEOPLE, GROW UP!!

Are there really people on this thread that are either so brainwashed by right wing talk radio or stupid, that they think it's okay for this man to sue a bakery because they wouldn't write a hateful slogan on a cake. Do you idiots get this? LOL Wow.

a reply to: Jamie1
A photographer was fined somewhere around 6 grand for not wanting to attend and photograph a gay wedding there.
The most unbiased link I could find.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Can you say hate speech. The baker could very well be accused of that. I think there is a law against it. it's always funny when self righteous folks think they have something clever to contribute. Generally is to promote something evil in the name of their God.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

All of these issues are stupid.

If I own my labor I should be allowed to make the choice to sell my labor to whomever I want.

Likewise, I should be allowed to not sell to someone for whatever reason I want.

If you can force one baker to make you a cake that he doesn't want to make for you, then you can force another baker to decorate a cake with words he doesn't like.

Forced labor is forced labor.

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon
If I own my labor I should be allowed to make the choice to sell my labor to whomever I want.

That's the Libertarian stance, and I have a certain amount of fondness for it. But you have to consider what the implications of that stance might be. We'd have restaurants where black people are not welcome. Separate drinking fountains for straights and gays. Women disallowed from entering the Home Depo. Grocery stores refusing to sell to Christians.

People's prejudices would be supported by the state. Hatred of those who are different would be socially acceptable.

You have your idea of how it SHOULD be, but it isn't like that. Businesses are regulated by the state, federal and local laws. That's how we have clean restaurants and can return faulty merchandise, etc. The consumer must be protected from being screwed by businesses.

In a perfect world, your stance would be great. But there are too many greedy people out there who would take advantage of the consumer.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

That's the Libertarian stance, and I have a certain amount of fondness for it. But you have to consider what the implications of that stance might be. We'd have restaurants where black people are not welcome. Separate drinking fountains for straights and gays. Women disallowed from entering the Home Depo. Grocery stores refusing to sell to Christians.

Well, yes, I already assumed that things like that would happen, the scale to which they happen is debatable. Especially in 2015, I personally think a lot of businesses would wind up bankrupt from all of the boycotts.

People's prejudices would be supported by the state.

The state wouldn't have to do anything. The state is only envoked when someone wants to force another's labor.

Hatred of those who are different would be socially acceptable.

That's not even close to true. Just because we decide not to use the state as a battering ram to force people to do what we want, does not mean that hatred of differences would become socially acceptable.

If anything it would pull people out of their apathy when they realize that they can't just throw a fit and have the state act on their behalf. They'd actually have to do something, like boycotting.

You have your idea of how it SHOULD be, but it isn't like that. Businesses are regulated by the state, federal and local laws. That's how we have clean restaurants and can return faulty merchandise, etc. The consumer must be protected from being screwed by businesses.

Or, consumers could quit being lazy and ignorant and learn to defend themselves.

In a perfect world, your stance would be great. But there are too many greedy people out there who would take advantage of the consumer.

Corporations already take advantage of us, and they do so through government force. Corporations are the leash-holders, government is the doberman.

All we do with cases like this is feed the doberman.

How Marjorie Silva handled this situation should be printed and hung for display and reference in every bakery supportive of LGBT equality.

I thing she was amazing.

It seems the actions of "unknown customer" may be an organized group effort.

Conservative Christian Theodore Shoebat says he asked for 'an explicitly anti-homosexual marriage cake' and couldn't get one.

Theodore Shoebat
Antigay activist Theodore Shoebat has conducted an experiment in cake-shopping that he claims proves "how militant and intolerant the homosexual agenda is."

Shoebat, the son of fellow right-wing Christian extremist Walid Shoebat, writes at Shoebat.com that he “called some 13 prominent bakers who are pro-gay and requested that they make a pro-traditional marriage cake with the words ‘Gay marriage is wrong’ placed on the cake. Each one denied us service, and even used deviant insults and obscenities against us. One baker even said that she would make me a cookie with a large phallus on it. We recorded all of this in a video that will stun the American people as to how militant and intolerant the homosexual agenda is.” www.advocate.com...

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Dude shouldn't even have a case. It's a business, for crying aloud...they can serve who they want what they want.

Cuts both ways of course, but I hope this guy gets nowhere. What's up with all these people using the force of the law (coercive force, i.e. people with guns) to make their neighbors do what they want? How do people take that so lightly?

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Hey BH

I had a thread that touched on this very issue in Michigan. Michigan passing a bill about "Religious Freedom Bill"

www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1046004/pg1

He cited several examples of protections, from the baker who doesn't want to provide a wedding cake to same-sex marriage couple to the Jewish mother who doesn't want an autopsy on her son who died in a car crash. Both cited religious beliefs as reasons in their cases.

"This is not a license to discriminate," Bolger said. "People simply want their government to allow them to practice their faith in peace."