Scientists Warn: Earth pushed beyond four of nine ‘planetary boundaries’

I thik we'll see more extreme weather because of this.

a reply to: mc_squared

F&S&

Steal this idea:

It's been obvious for a long while that oil, gas, water and other deposits act as "shock absorbers," protecting our planet from the ripple effects of impacts, earthquakes and the like.

Just realized - these deposits also act as "insulation barriers," protecting the surface of our planet from the killing heat radiating from our Earth's core.







........Ooops.

originally posted by: mc_squared

At the rate things are going, the Earth in the coming decades could cease to be a “safe operating space” for human beings. That is the conclusion of a new paper published Thursday in the journal Science by 18 researchers trying to gauge the breaking points in the natural world.

Paper (Subscription req'd):
Planetary boundaries: Guiding human development on a changing planet

News Link:
Scientists: Human activity has pushed Earth beyond four of nine ‘planetary boundaries’

The paper contends that we have already crossed four “planetary boundaries.” They include the extinction rate; deforestation; the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; and the flow of nitrogen and phosphorous (used on land as fertilizer) into the ocean.

“What the science has shown is that human activities — economic growth, technology, consumption – are destabilizing the global environment,” said Will Steffen, who holds appointments at the Australian National University and the Stockholm Resilience Center and is the lead author of the paper.

This is pretty heavy stuff, the sort of dire doom porn you hear coming from conspiracy sites all the time - except it's coming from mainstream scientists, not some tinfoil youtube channel. (Of course this likely means the tinfoil crowd will now officially declare it doom porn - you know, nothing but "alarmism" designed to scare you so you stop paying attention to Planet X or Agenda 21 or whatever)...


But the fact is the majority of this information is self-explanatory: we are gouging this planet at every turn, extracting its resources at a completely unsustainable rate. Anyone can see this for themselves, in the reckless depletion of our fish stocks, rainforests, etc. It's not exactly breaking news. Yet there are very powerful people on this planet who are very invested in making sure we pay no mind to this gorilla in the room problem because they are getting ridiculously wealthy off of it.

That's why this new paper is a great example of what I think is far and away the BIGGEST conspiracy we face today - summed up by the struggle between sustainability and greed, but highlighted publicly by the PR battle being waged by industry against environmental science (and common sense).

In light of that, I have no doubt there will be a lot of deflection and hyperbole targeted at this latest "doom porn" from the scientists, but there is a very simple quote at the end of the WP article that puts thingss into perspective:

“There’s a lot of emotion involved in this. If you think about it, the American ethic is, ‘The sky’s the limit.’ And here you have people coming on and saying, no it isn’t, the Earth’s the limit,”

Yup, except, its not "doom porn," because it is well studied, well researched, and well supported by data.

I study and work on these issues in international development.

Good post.

Other people need to start listening to the science, not their own fear of science or desire to feel comfortable about human sustainability.

Greed, corruption and more greed. The younger generation should be pissed the #$*! off at what we're creating for them. To be honest, the only thing that can save this planet is a few good EMPs in the right place to send us all back into the stone age. Earth would be a paradise if it weren't for those damn humans.

originally posted by: planetyeck
Greed, corruption and more greed. The younger generation should be pissed the #$*! off at what we're creating for them. To be honest, the only thing that can save this planet is a few good EMPs in the right place to send us all back into the stone age. Earth would be a paradise if it weren't for those damn humans.

whatreallyhappened.com...

whatreallyhappened.com...

whatreallyhappened.com...

whatreallyhappened.com...

When the liars get caught

In hindsight of history, the lies about 9-11m or John Kennedy, of the climate, or the economy, are not unique, nor are they even all that unusual. It is for this government, aided by the corporate media presstitutes, business as usual.

It must be very frustrating for the liars in government right now. Lying to the people has worked for thousands of years.

Enjoy the miracle of nature while you can people.

a reply to: bbracken677

You claim I am presenting memes, junk science and lies.

Yes, that’s exactly what you’re doing. And yes it’s a violation of the T&C, and yes it does piss me off. I am very tired of every important discussion on this subject being derailed and obfuscated by misinformed hijackers and political trolls, and I’m not going to let it happen here.

You can pretend I am resorting to personal attacks all you want. I am simply pointing out all the intellectual dishonesty in your posts - as ATS likes to say “go after the ball, not the player”. It’s frankly not my fault you've attached your name to the blatant BS in your posts.

And yes, that’s what it is – you’re not satisfied with my proof so far? Go ahead and keep barking up this tree then, because I will gladly demonstrate for all of ATS how full-of-climate-denier-verbal-diarrhea your responses are.

Let’s start here:

Your remark regarding the balance between natural sources of co2 being in balance with their own sinks is bunk. They, much like our climate, have NEVER been in balance, which is why there is a constant up and down cycle coupled with periodic net increases and decreases that, at times, exceed the previous comparable period. How do you explain that?

First off, you claim to be a Geologist, and you need me to explain the carbon cycle to you? There are websites all over the net designed to explain it to 6 year olds. Seriously.

Interestingly enough, here’s what that particular link has to say (in comic sans no less lol):

In fact, ice cores show us that there is now more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere than there has been in the last 420,000 years.

But back to the point - also according to that ice core data, CO2 concentration has only varied by about 25ppm in the last 10,000 years (up to the industrial revolution that is) –



Source:
gcmd.nasa.gov...

Meanwhile I NEVER claimed natural fluxes were always in some kind of magical perfect balance for all of geological history - that’s some silly strawman you have now made up to try and deflect the matter. But for all intents and purposes of this discussion they have been very steady for a really long time. Furthermore, today’s fluxes are well quantified and known to be in general equilibrium. Again, you can find these sort of graphics on kids’ websites:



More so - for the last 800,000 years, CO2 has fluctuated very strictly between 180-280ppm. And even when it changed by 100ppm overall – that jump still took between 5,000-20,000 years MINIMUM.

Then all of a sudden, since the industrial revolution, it skyrocketed from 280ppm to 400ppm in less than 200 years. Here’s what the long-term graph looks like when it goes up to the present day:



And you want to pretend that 99.75% of this is just natural somehow? And you’re a GEOLOGIST???

You've decided to hijack this thread with ridiculous climate denier memes, so I am now going to hold you responsible for every hyperbolic claim you make. What I see in your posts is deliberate cherry-picking of complicated information to paint an out-of-context, distortion of the facts, and then you talk down to other members and tell them to trust you because you’re a geologist and you like, know the science real good.

You are completely bullsh—ing. If not others, then obviously yourself. Either way, I won’t stand for it here. I’m not going to even begin addressing the rest of your fabricated claims until you explain this particular one away first.

I can’t wait to see all these peer-reviewed papers you've promised showing man’s contribution to the enhanced greenhouse effect at 0.25%. And if you decide to just change the subject or shift the goalposts now I’ll accept that as a blatant failure to back up your claims and thus subsequent admission of your dishonesty.

a reply to: bbracken677

I will touch on this bit though, because it’s too good to pass up:

The scientific method is just that. One forms an hypothesis, tests it against observable phenomena and if the predicted phenomena matches observed then the hypothesis is correct and we can move on to theory. If the predicted phenomena does not match obeservations then ... ooops.. hypothesis is wrong. In the case of current climate models, they have all failed.

Climate models have not failed – this is more outlandish hyperbole that makes it sound like you just read way too many denier blogs than do any actual research into the facts.

Climate models have, and probably always will be, a delicate work in progress due to the extremely complicated nature of feedbacks, short-term variation, etc. But over the long haul they have remained broadly accurate and well within error bars. Meanwhile models that do not include a significant anthropogenic component are the ones that have completely failed.

But I want to bring it back to the point about the scientific method, because I find it pretty telling that you've just ignored 120 years of scientific method in action and ran straight to the climate model memes instead. CO2 driven warming was first predicted by Svante Arrhenius in 1896. He didn't have any computer models to work with, just a blackboard and the strict physics of an enhanced greenhouse effect.

The last 120 years of explicit warming have proven this hypothesis correct, especially considering there has been no observable natural mechanism that can explain it away.

So your own standards for what makes something an acceptable theory are completely satisfied...if you’d just pay more attention to the actual facts instead of the silly memes.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
Yup, except, its not "doom porn," because it is well studied, well researched, and well supported by data.

I study and work on these issues in international development.

Good post.

Other people need to start listening to the science, not their own fear of science or desire to feel comfortable about human sustainability.

Yup, the doom porn comment was more tongue-in-cheek than anything because I know the science-fearing doom porners here have a perpetual habit of being quite unaware of their own projection bias.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Give me ONE realistic scenario that will turn us off our present course of consumption and pollution that we call "growth."

The Venus Project

a reply to: mc_squared

Yet there are very powerful people on this planet who are very invested in making sure we pay no mind to this gorilla in the room problem because they are getting ridiculously wealthy off of it.

This is where I stop and look for a second. And I see
the ridiculously rich not only getting rich, but uping
the ante for doom.

An agonizing post. Snf

a reply to: MALBOSIA

WTF happened was that whole vision of the future crap
played a dark roll in keeping us asleep and dreaming. I see this
as intentional to at least some degree, because the rich, do not
come to be mega-rich by being stupid. And the mega rich, do not
cease thinking or being intelligent, just because they are mega rich.

a reply to: criticalhit

You have the best post in this thread. Thank you for being reasonable.

Human beings need to start moving into space.

a reply to: planetyeck

Earth would be a paradise if it weren't for those damn humans.

said the human.

You are more than welcome to lead by example.

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Give me ONE realistic scenario that will turn us off our present course of consumption and pollution that we call "growth."

The Venus Project

This Venus project sounds like the most conformed and centrally controlled management system ever contrived.

"Future by design" ??? That is what we are dealing with right now and the vision of the Venus project sounds a lot like the end game to what we have now. TPTB don't give a crap if we live like this or like that. What they need is to be in control. If the Venus project is going to help sustain their control then TPTB want it.

The Fransisco guy... is a control freak with pretty pictures that appeal to things you want but I'm almost certain you have been honeypotted my friend.

originally posted by: randyvs

WTF happened was that whole vision of the future crap
played a dark roll in keeping us asleep and dreaming. I see this
as intentional to at least some degree, because the rich, do not
come to be mega-rich by being stupid. And the mega rich, do not
cease thinking or being intelligent, just because they are mega rich.

That is a pretty good point. But what is the intent behind putting is in a doom and gloom nightmare if they had us distracted enough with dreams of the future?

Is this the next stage or a do-over?

Double

Double

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Ask yourself one question i.e. do the mega rich congragate?

a reply to: mc_squared

Its BS! The only thing wrong is mismanagement. The Earths largest fisheries are not allowed to restock, fertilizing the oceans and harvesting the bio bloom for conversion to oil would both regulate CO2 and create a renewable source of fine crude oil. Every human on the planet has a billion+ gallons worth of sea water and the same could be used to support all humans on the planet. We are in it for the species people and to remain chained to natural systems that are doomed to fail with or without us is suicide. A Planet wide city should be our goal The technology to completely manage our biosphere would come in tandem. Struggle is the mother of all invention!

Depopulation is an idiots dream! Better stewardship is all that's called for! The whole of the planet should be utilized for the single purpose of supporting human life. Unless we learn to fully manage the natural systems we depend on our extinction is guaranteed. A large population would also force humankind to the stars.

Adapt or die, FOOLS!

Whale farming alone could change the world! Utilization and management of our oceans could see humankind survive the single point failure that is mother Earths fragile natural systems. Using thermodynamics we can heat aand raise huge columns of ocean water to compensate for deoxgenization and grow huge blooms of plankton year round using both cold and warm water varieties. The resulting bio bloom will be used for fuel and food for other fish populations which we should also managed from fry to harvest ready stock etc.. The same can be used as a CO2 sink etc.. Humankind would also achieve other weather and climate related goals if this method was mastered.

We are in it for the species! Short term fixes like depopulation just increase the chances of environmental catastrophe happening before humankind has fully mastered his environment. Culling the herd is the wrong way to go, and completely short sided.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Ask yourself one question i.e. do the mega rich congragate?

I don't know. I guess they have reps that go to Builderburg, there is that Bohemian Grove joint. Jackel Island deal. Yeah I guess they do on some levels.

What do you mean?

a reply to: MALBOSIA

What do you mean?

Well my good member, I guess I mean I only need to imagine
the ideas a group of ultimately rich and therefore ultimately
powerful. And already defined as intelligent human beings
would discuss amonst themselves behind closed doors.
Considering the complete and obvious disregard for morality
that would bring them to such absurd amounts of excess in
the first place. Certain amounts of greed to me are a horrible
crime, when children else where are starving period. Therfore
I do judge them on a personal level. And await the decision
of the ultimate judge. If you follw me?