Would the prophet Mohammed been offended by the Charlie Hebdo satire?

a reply to: WarminIndy

I apologize for staying on point. Just one subject here is obviously not the way to get to the bottom of something.

I envy your plethora of created 'facts' to draw from. I sure am glad you opened my eyes to knowledge I never would have discovered by merely reading the Koran and Hadith myself.

How on Earth could I have missed all those cherry picked fragments? Worse, I failed to weave them together creating a tapestry clearly demonstrating its all about child pornography

Please do not let me keep you from enjoying your planet.

originally posted by: ABNARTY
a reply to: WarminIndy

I apologize for staying on point. Just one subject here is obviously not the way to get to the bottom of something.

I envy your plethora of created 'facts' to draw from. I sure am glad you opened my eyes to knowledge I never would have discovered by merely reading the Koran and Hadith myself.

How on Earth could I have missed all those cherry picked fragments? Worse, I failed to weave them together creating a tapestry clearly demonstrating its all about child pornography

Please do not let me keep you from enjoying your planet.

Age of Aisha, please, from Bukhari, please. 9, right? Sex with a 9 year-old, nope can't draw that, but by golly you can sure allow the pervert to never be questioned or hold him accountable, can we?

Roll with the sarcasm, it doesn't change the fact that the Hadiths tell us exactly what kind of guy Mohammed was, but hey, he's Rasullah, isn't he?

Would Allah give him permission to rape little girls? Think about it, seriously, tell us that you honestly believe that Allah would give that kind of permission to him. Honestly, be honest with us, do you really think that Mohammed really had permission to do that?

And then this same man, do you honestly and really and truly believe that Mohammed would not be offended by cartoons of him? Are you guys ever really capable of thinking honestly?

Do you really and truly think Mohammed was telling the truth? If you really think that, then you really need to examine your own heart, examine why you would justify a murdering rapist. Why do you guys justify his lies anyway?

originally posted by: WarminIndy

Please. Do you assume I don't know or have ever met any Muslims?

I have no idea if you have or not. I made no claims about this. only that your familiarity with Islam seems to be 100% of the variety one might learn from the likes of Daniel pipes or pam Gellar.

Show me the link I posted.

For this, you have my apologies. I was mistakenly attributing infolurker's link to kjvbelievers to you.

I said that all references to Hadiths come from the Hadiths,

You provided nothing to support this. We have your claim that Infolurker's claim that kjvbeliever's claim that Robert Payne's work is accurate. Do you see the problem, there?

don't play taqiyya with me.

I wear my faith right there in my username, warmindy. it'd be rather hard for me to "play taqiyya" with you. But thank you for illustrating that your knowledge of islam comes from anti-Islam sources and revolves mostly around buzzwords.

Would you like to discuss the ridiculousness of Hadiths?

Wouldn't that be the whole body? Would you like to discuss how there is nothing more ridiculous in there than you find in any version of the boble? Or the rig Veda? let's get you, me, that Muslim fellow earlier in the thread, and an Asatru together to discuss this, let's see who cracks first. It'll be a drinking game; I'll bring hte booze.

Would you like to discuss the historical inaccuracies of the Quran? Take your pick, we have a lot of time.

If the virtue of faiths were judged on their accurate representation of history, everyone i nthe world would be an atheist. Honestly, that's not a bad idea.

YOU made a false statement that Hadiths were like Talmud or Lost Gospels, Hadith is NOT a set of books like that, Hadith is SECOND in authority to the Quran. Now tell me what part of this you do not understand.

It's not a false statement at all. The hadith are a collection of opinions and fables from the early days of Islam, paired with a hugely expansive body of law and interpretation built around them in the intervening centuries. Granted this does make them more like the Talmud than the Lost Gospels, but the comparison is perfectly valid.

Yes, there are Muslims who regard the hadith to be that important. It is, however, an individual thing. I imagine very often, this importance is simply granted by assumption - they've been told it is, so they say it is. I sincerely doubt most of these people are intimately familiar with the entire body - even the one for whatever sect they cleave to (interestingly, there's a Sunni hadith and a shia hadith. The division hearkens back to the juriprudence thing.)

Because you DIDN'T know the difference and the importance of Hadith, don't call me ignorant, it just makes me think you play taqqiyah.

The fact you've used that word twice now in a way that makes no sense sort of undermines your argument of non-ignorance.

The OP asked a question, I said yes and said why.

And then you decided to sit down and pretend to be Ali al-Sistani or something.

Please remind me of what happened to Zoroastrians today in Iran.

Dunno. Did something happen today? I know in a week or so, they'll be celebrating Sadeh.

Tell us why Zoroastrian sites are being destroyed.

Probably for the same reason Native American sacred sites get turned into 4-wheeler sandpits; they're "serving" an extremely small community, and the government sees no benefit to preservation.

But since you seem to believe you know everything about Muslims

You're a christian, yes/ isn't there something about motes, beams, and eyes?

because maybe you met a Muslim and he seemed to be a nice person, he was playing the game with you. Do you not understand that?

Nope. Nor do I "understand" that when people tell me the same thing about Jews. I have no plans to put forth the effort to wrap my own brain around this frankly grotesque belief you are peddling. Sorry.

Yes I have worked with Muslims, I have conversed with Muslims so don't act like I don't know anything about Muslims.

And in your estimation, they were all terrible, awful, horrible people, who were just lying to you about being decent, nice people?

Go ahead, keep playing the shell game, I am betting on you losing.

Well, at least you didn't go for a third us of "taqiyya."

a reply to: TheTengriist

And there shows your ignorance of the Hadiths, they were not opinions. They are considered to be the chain of communication and the explanation for Quran verses. To say they are opinions, no, not in any way.

Contrary to what you might think of certain anti-Muslim scholars, for every argument against Islam, I go directly to Islamic sites. So anything I post to you, will be from them and not an anti-Islamic person. That's how I roll.

And yes, Tengrism, the religion of the ancient Turks, Tengri, the Heavenly Sky Father, I know what Tengrism is. But you seem to be a little Islamic supportive, is that because you currently live in an area of majority Muslims? I know that in some places in Turkey, there are people who still practice Tengrism in secret.

But that you are openly able to practice it, then good for you.

Importance of Hadith

Another

Again, not an opinion, but direct link of sayings of Mohammed.

Therefore, the Hadeeth represents a personal source of divine guidance which Allah granted His Prophet (pbuh) which was similar in its nature to the Qur’an itself. The Prophet (pbuh) reiterated this point in one of his recorded statements, “Indeed, I was given the Qur’an and something similar to it along with it.” [Sunan Abu Dawud]

Yet another

I don't know who told you they were simply opinions, they are not. That's the one point I am trying to get you to understand, because whoever told you they were merely opinions, lied to you. Now, there are some Muslims who reject Hadiths, but the majority of Muslims denounce rejection of Hadith, because they are not opinions, they are considered absolute facts of sayings and doings of Mohammed.

Actually, fatwas are opinions and religious rulings.

originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: TheTengriist

And there shows your ignorance of the Hadiths, they were not opinions. They are considered to be the chain of communication and the explanation for Quran verses. To say they are opinions, no, not in any way.

Contrary to what you might think of certain anti-Muslim scholars, for every argument against Islam, I go directly to Islamic sites. So anything I post to you, will be from them and not an anti-Islamic person. That's how I roll.

And yes, Tengrism, the religion of the ancient Turks, Tengri, the Heavenly Sky Father, I know what Tengrism is. But you seem to be a little Islamic supportive, is that because you currently live in an area of majority Muslims? I know that in some places in Turkey, there are people who still practice Tengrism in secret.


But that you are openly able to practice it, then good for you.

Importance of Hadith

Another

Again, not an opinion, but direct link of sayings of Mohammed.

Therefore, the Hadeeth represents a personal source of divine guidance which Allah granted His Prophet (pbuh) which was similar in its nature to the Qur’an itself. The Prophet (pbuh) reiterated this point in one of his recorded statements, “Indeed, I was given the Qur’an and something similar to it along with it.” [Sunan Abu Dawud]

Yet another

I don't know who told you they were simply opinions, they are not. That's the one point I am trying to get you to understand, because whoever told you they were merely opinions, lied to you. Now, there are some Muslims who reject Hadiths, but the majority of Muslims denounce rejection of Hadith, because they are not opinions, they are considered absolute facts of sayings and doings of Mohammed.

Actually, fatwas are opinions and religious rulings.

You can foam at the mouth all you want with these hadith, warminindy but the fact remains that if they were all true and muslims lived by them as you say, then why is it that they don't have an Text Red of raping 10year old boys and girls like priests and rabbi's do??? Sorry but it's a fact. Documented court cases, payoffs, about priests and rabbi's. Now I know your going to scramble and find some one in a million imam who molested someone, but remember I said epidemic.

And since you like the hadith so much why don't you mention the cases where Muhammad was absolutely merciful to people who would constantly mistreat him.
There was an old Jewish woman who lived right next door to Muhammad.For years she would throw her garbage at his front doorstep.Text Green(for heavens sake) One day there was no garbage and he became extremely worried about her. He found out she was sick and went to visit her!!!
So tell us great scholar of Islamic hadith, is this hadith true??

It was his daily routine to clean up her garbage. Not to have her killed like you would have us think.

a reply to: infolurker

The Best Reply available from the History ::::

The lies, which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man ( Prophet Muhammad ), are disgraceful to ourselves ( Europeans ) only. ____Thomas Carlyle

Thomas Carlyle, who won the Nobel Prize for his book ‘The Heroes’ wrote:
“It is a great shame for any one to listen to the accusation that Islaam is a lie and that Muhammad was a fabricator and a deceiver. We saw that he remained steadfast upon his principles, with firm determination; kind and generous, compassionate, pious, virtuous, with real manhood, hardworking and sincere. Besides all these qualities, he was lenient with others, tolerant, kind, cheerful and praiseworthy and perhaps he would joke and tease his companions. He was just, truthful, smart, pure, magnanimous and present-minded; his face was radiant as if he had lights within him to illuminate the darkest of nights; he was a great man by nature who was not educated in a school nor nurtured by a teacher as he was not in need of any of this.”

a reply to: WarminIndy

it is something that someone says Mohammed said or did, and their interpretations of it. It absolutely is a collection of opinions, as any game of 'telephone" becomes. It is further surrounded by thirteen hundred years of clerical and judicial interpretation, examination, and opinionation.

I'm glad to see you've finally wrapped your head around the notion that not all Muslims revere the hadith. I imagine that if you think a little harder, you'll come to the realization that even those who do "revere" the hadith likely have little actual information of what's in there. The majority of Muslims in the world are not scholars and theologians, after all. it becoems a situation as found with most religions that revere a text - the text is revered, but its contents are often not thoroughly known by hte adherents.

And yes, Tengrism, the religion of the ancient Turks, Tengri, the Heavenly Sky Father, I know what Tengrism is.

I'm certain. Though for the record, I adopted it with input from some Mongolian friends of mine.

But you seem to be a little Islamic supportive, is that because you currently live in an area of majority Muslims?

Nope, it's because I'm kind of sick of seeing ignorant anti-Muslim bigots making the places I hang out suck. Such as someone who claims that all decent Muslim people are "lying to you" about being decent people.