All Church Age believers are priests, so why do Catholics ordaine their own priests?

I also believe in one, holy, catholic(small C)
and apostolic Church.

This is incendiary? I'm persecuted, literally, daily, for my Catholicism. I will be banned because I am Catholic? Lol

Et tu, Brute?


a reply to: jmdewey60

a reply to: Ignatian

I'm persecuted . . .

That sounds slightly paranoid to me.
I'm just saying that you could probably pick up a few pointers by reading through Colbe's posts, since you both seem on the same track, but he had been on it a bit longer.

Well this colbe, myself and 1.2 billion other Christians are on the same track also. Let's not forget who the majority are...Catholics, The Church that Jesus started.

"Who do you say that I AM? Simon Peter said in reply, "You are The Messiah, the son of the living God". Jesus said to him in reply, "BLESSED are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock *I* will build *MY* church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the KEYS to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth, shall be loosed in heaven"

Protestants have come up with every twist, dodge and weave to ignore or alter this earth shattering set of verses. Some are funny, some are sad, some are blasphemies, some are sheer petulance, most are sophomoric, but all are pathetic. They direct their disdain to the very words spoken by Jesus. I pray for them. I pray that one day, we are all united into one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church...as Jesus intended.

When I read 2 Peter, chapter 2, all I can think about are Protestants.
"There will be false teachers among you"
"...introduce destructive heresies"
"In their greed, they will exploit you with fabrications"
"Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to defile glorious beings"
"Revile things they do not understand"
"Abandoning the straight road, they have gone astray"
"The dog returns to its' own vomit"
"The bathed sow returns to wallowing in the mire"

Sad. Hard words, I know, but they're not mine, you don't persecute me, you persecute the Spirit of Christ within me. You all have slivers of Truth with you, you all believe in Jesus as your Lord and savior, but the FULLness of Truth is found within Jesus' Church, the Church founded to bring you salvation by HIS methods. His Church is The Catholic Church.

Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and communion with The Holy Ghost be with you all.


a reply to: jmdewey60

a reply to: Ignatian

Well this colbe, myself and 1.2 billion other Christians are on the same track also. Let's not forget who the majority are...Catholics, The Church that Jesus started.

Appeal to popularity fallacy:

The basic idea is that a claim is accepted as being true simply because most people are favorably inclined towards the claim. More formally, the fact that most people have favorable emotions associated with the claim is substituted in place of actual evidence for the claim. A person falls prey to this fallacy if he accepts a claim as being true simply because most other people approve of the claim. It is clearly fallacious to accept the approval of the majority as evidence for a claim. For example, suppose that a skilled speaker managed to get most people to absolutely love the claim that 1+1=3. It would still not be rational to accept this claim simply because most people approved of it. After all, mere approval is no substitute for a mathematical proof. At one time people approved of claims such as "the world is flat", "humans cannot survive at speeds greater than 25 miles per hour", "the sun revolves around the earth" but all these claims turned out to be false. This sort of "reasoning" is quite common and can be quite an effective persusasive device. Since most humans tend to conform with the views of the majority, convincing a person that the majority approves of a claim is often an effective way to get him to accept it. Advertisers often use this tactic when they attempt to sell products by claiming that everyone uses and loves their products. In such cases they hope that people will accept the (purported) approval of others as a good reason to buy the product.

Argumentum Ad Populum

Here's another waste of internet space. A post that says nothing in an effort to bury The Truth in a thread. Your handle should be Captain Obvious. Even your own copied text says it is "an effective way.." So thanks for that tidbit, it's why I use it. I just never knew there was a name for it. Except the product I'm "selling" is your eternal salvation, and that's no "fallacy".



a reply to: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: Ignatian
Here's another waste of internet space. A post that says nothing in an effort to bury The Truth in a thread. Your handle should be Captain Obvious. Even your own copied text says it is "an effective way.." So thanks for that tidbit, it's why I use it. I just never knew there was a name for it. Except the product I'm "selling" is your eternal salvation, and that's no "fallacy".



a reply to: NOTurTypical

The words of a person who has run out of valid points to debate with.

a reply to: Ignatian

The Church that Jesus started.

Only according to their own mythology.

. . . this earth shattering set of verses.

Even if your interpretation of those verses was correct, it is still a giant leap to get to where somehow Peter ends up as Pope of Rome. That is just so much filler that was later added to try to legitimize the position that they were striving to grasp.

Trust me, this is no debate. Not even close. You're not equipped to debate.

Your hardened heart refuses to dialogue, it's only about attacking Jesus' Church, The Catholic Church.

I should have just said "google it" in my first post. The evidence for The Catholic priesthood is in MANY other biblical verses. Go look for them yourself. You won't though. Your mind is made up, like your theology...made up.

Disciple---disciplined. Same root. You are neither.

I'll pray for you. God bless and good luck.


a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

a reply to: Ignatian

You're right, this is not a debate, its a correction of the lies told man.

Save your prayers for yourself. Im more than capable of addressing my own issues with God in the privacy of my own priesthood.

Paul to Titus(a bishop)
......."appoint elders in every town, in the way that I told you"

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

originally posted by: Ignatian
Here's another waste of internet space. A post that says nothing in an effort to bury The Truth in a thread. Your handle should be Captain Obvious. Even your own copied text says it is "an effective way.." So thanks for that tidbit, it's why I use it. I just never knew there was a name for it. Except the product I'm "selling" is your eternal salvation, and that's no "fallacy".



a reply to: NOTurTypical

Nothing else needed to be said. Any argument that tries to claim legitimacy based on how many people believe it to be true is a fallacy. The number of people who think something is true is irrelevant to it being true or false.

Even your own copied text says it is "an effective way..

Yes, it is an effective way, only because many people don't understand that type of argument is a fallacy. Don't make the mistake of confusing "effective way" with "legitimate argument". That's not what it says above, it says the opposite:

Since most humans tend to conform with the views of the majority, convincing a person that the majority approves of a claim is often an effective way to get him to accept it. Advertisers often use this tactic when they attempt to sell products by claiming that everyone uses and loves their products.

Except the product I'm "selling" is your eternal salvation, and that's no "fallacy".

I don't need the RCC to be saved, any more than the thief on the cross needed it to be saved. Unless you would like to present the argument that God is a respecter of persons. The gospel is presented in 1 Corinthians chapter 15 and Romans 10:9-10. Makes absolutely no mention of the RCC.

Paul to Timothy:
...."fan into a flame the gift that God gave you, when I laid my hands on you"

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

originally posted by: Ignatian
Paul to Titus(a bishop)
......."appoint elders in every town, in the way that I told you"

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

An elder is not a priest, but a minister to help the pastor minister to the congregation.

Why do you insist on inserting your assumptiions? Nowhere does the NT tell us to ordain priests.

originally posted by: Ignatian
Paul to Timothy:
...."fan into a flame the gift that God gave you, when I laid my hands on you"

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

We all have spiritual gifts, and we are all priests.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
An elder is not a priest, but a minister to help the pastor minister to the congregation.

Ignatian, you can link that with the explanation I've already tried to give you.
A PRESBUTEROS is not a HIEREUS.

"Hiereus" would not be the word used to describe the NEW priesthood, in the Church that Jesus started. (One exception, Paul uses it in Romans 15:16). I won't lecture you as to why, it's better you do your own research, and it's the best way to learn new stuff. I don't do links, but try a website, "Called to Communion", a great website by and for Reformed Protestants. There's a very strong blog there on this subject.

Like most adherents of sola scriptura, semantics, and turning a blind eye to Sacred Tradition, becomes your roadblock to Truth.

New covenant?...New priesthood. He didn't come to abolish The Law, but to fulfill it, enhance it, polish it.

Like the concept of "The Trinity", this new priesthood oozes from scripture. The word "Trinity" is not in scripture and it took hundreds of years to be conceptualized. It now seams basic. So to with priests. Instead of getting caught up in semantic wordplay, ponder the essence of the word "priest". What exactly does "priest" mean? What do they do? That's a good starting point.

Also, pray. Pray constantly. Ask God to help you see His visible Church. Protestants don't have a visible Church. Jesus' Church is visible.

And I'll pray....for you. Yes, Catholics do that, it's scriptural.




a reply to: DISRAELI

originally posted by: Ignatian
"Hiereus" would not be the word used to describe the NEW priesthood, in the Church that Jesus started.

Yes, I know. That's exactly what I said myself. The "Catholic priest" is a PRESBUTEROS.

ponder the essence of the word "priest". What exactly does "priest" mean? What do they do? That's a good starting point.

Exactly my point.
If by "priest" you mean the New Testament PRESBUTEROS, then he is an "elder". That is, he's an "older man" (which is what the word means), and his work is to give the kind of good advice and leadership appropriate for older men.
NOTHING in the New Testament gives him any special spiritual powers or spiritual status.
He is not "holy", except in the sense that all Christians are holy.
I am a holy servant of God (part of the body of Christ and therefore a member of his universal church), you are a holy servant of God, the "priest" is a holy servant of God. No more so than us.
As long as you understand that, then we're in agreement.

Nowhere in the NT are these priests given special powers? Are you sure?

Are you sure you understand exactly what a ministerial priest is, and what they do? Their purpose?

What was Jesus' purpose? What did HE do? What is the purpose of The New Testament?

..."fan into a flame the gift that God gave you, WHEN I LAID MY HANDS ON YOU"...

The hand is a symbol of..?....of?....of?



a reply to: DISRAELI

Who opened that Ethiopian eunuch's eyes? Gave him the understanding. Phillip or The Holy Spirit?


ps, I work 14 hours a day, have a business to run. Pray brother. I'll get back to you when I'm able.

Pray always

God Bless

a reply to: Ignatian

originally posted by: Ignatian
Are you sure you understand exactly what a ministerial priest is, and what they do? Their purpose?

I know what the New Testament says he does.
That will do me, and its what I've just told you.

Incidentally, all Christians have received the Holy Spirit, by definition (1 Corinthians ch2 v12).
It is impossible to grasp the gospel of Christ without the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians ch2 vv13-16).
It is impossible to call Jesus Lord without the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians ch12 v3).
Therefore there is no such thing as a Christian who has NOT received the Holy Spirit.