Dems Propose a 3.8 Percent Pay Raise for Federal Workers

originally posted by: SonOfThor
a reply to: Ceeker63

I agree that there is massive amounts of fraud, waste, and abuse that needs to be fixed. I also agree that there are a lot of overpaid, underqualified, inept people in civil service. However, there are also a lot of extremely well educated, highly qualified positions that skew the salary numbers to a higher level.

Hear me out - think about all of the nuclear physicists, engineers, doctors, lawyers, etc. that work in civil service. They generally have positions that are GS-09, 11, 12, or 13, making about 60k - 115k depending on years of experience. In many markets (such as southern california or northern virginia) those salaries are barely enough to cover the cost of living. They could make more money in the private sector, but generally the trade off is job security for a lower salary.

As for the effect of inflation on the salaries, the economics of it show that they actually have been taking pay cuts overall when inflaiton is considered.

People complain about care for our veterans for example, but the VA is way understaffed (especially with doctors and specialists) and are having trouble hiring / keeping people in these positions. They can get paid more outside the Government and don't have all the red tape to deal with, end result being lower quality care for our veterans.

The most egregious waste comes from the imperialist statist corporatism perpetrated by the finance industry and the military industrial complex. Salaries of civil servants aren't even a drop in the bucket compared to what it costs to maintain our empire. The worst offenders are the private sector contractors who make absurd profits from federal contracts, as a result of this corporatist structure.

I think the anger here is highly warranted, but misdirected. Again, that is just my personal opinion.

My opinion, with all due respect is that these employees you mention either have no choice to go into the employment of government or are incapable of earning more outside government's employment. People aspire to what they can achieve. They don't typically say...I'll take this lower paying job because I don't want more money. Much like the lowest bidder...you get what you pay for.

Sure...there are government employees that are great at their jobs. For example...and excellent doctor. And they are paid (or compensated) very, very well. But usually their job is to treat the president or other leaders. They aren't out there patching up our military. That would be beneath them and what the government is willing to pay for. And think about that for a moment. Our government will hire amazing doctors to care for their slips and falls, but only hire mediocre doctors to treat our military and veterans. Sad...huh?

originally posted by: dismanrc

originally posted by: SonOfThor
a reply to: Ceeker63

I agree that there is massive amounts of fraud, waste, and abuse that needs to be fixed. I also agree that there are a lot of overpaid, underqualified, inept people in civil service. However, there are also a lot of extremely well educated, highly qualified positions that skew the salary numbers to a higher level.

Hear me out - think about all of the nuclear physicists, engineers, doctors, lawyers, etc. that work in civil service. They generally have positions that are GS-09, 11, 12, or 13, making about 60k - 115k depending on years of experience. In many markets (such as southern california or northern virginia) those salaries are barely enough to cover the cost of living. They could make more money in the private sector, but generally the trade off is job security for a lower salary.

As for the effect of inflation on the salaries, the economics of it show that they actually have been taking pay cuts overall when inflaiton is considered.

People complain about care for our veterans for example, but the VA is way understaffed (especially with doctors and specialists) and are having trouble hiring / keeping people in these positions. They can get paid more outside the Government and don't have all the red tape to deal with, end result being lower quality care for our veterans.

The most egregious waste comes from the imperialist statist corporatism perpetrated by the finance industry and the military industrial complex. Salaries of civil servants aren't even a drop in the bucket compared to what it costs to maintain our empire. The worst offenders are the private sector contractors who make absurd profits from federal contracts, as a result of this corporatist structure.

I think the anger here is highly warranted, but misdirected. Again, that is just my personal opinion.

I worked for the VA for 4 years as a GS-9 in the IT field. After taxes I got about 40K a year (about 5 years ago)

You are very correct many government employes put in a lot of work for money we get. There is a lot of waste in our government also. I personally have no problem working for the VA or DOD, which I believe fall directly under the ideas of the Constitutions. (IE national defense and caring for the people that served.) I also believe that there are many agency that need to be scraped because they don't fall under federal mandate and should be handled by state or local government. (IE Dept of Education being a big one.).

Most GS workers will never see 100K a year in their life. It is very true that I could get paid a lot more in the outside world. (I have in fact.) I like serving my country and supporting our military and veterans. Also as you stated the stability is a little better then most jobs, but not like it use to be.

Just an honest question looking for an honest answer. So you made $40K a year at that job 5 years ago. What were your benefits? Vacation, sick days, health coverage, dental, life, pension, etc.? What did they total out to dollar-wise when added to your 40K?

In my world, my benefits equal about $12K per year above my salary. No pension, no sick days, no dental, no life insurance. For example. A congress-person making $100K per year doesn't sound crazy. Then when you realize they get a car, air-fare and a 100K per year pension for life (lets say for another 40 years), that $100K per year turns out to be more like $500K per year.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

So the military are turn coats in your mind?

I ask because the guard has a lot of state level civil service, and the reserve have a good percentage of federal level civil service.

As an Art I was civil service Monday thru Friday and a ssgt one weekend a month and two weeks a year, and deployments.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

So the military are turn coats in your mind?

I ask because the guard has a lot of state level civil service, and the reserve have a good percentage of federal level civil service.

As an Art I was civil service Monday thru Friday and a ssgt one weekend a month and two weeks a year, and deployments.

I don't consider the military employees of the government. The military which I fully support and admire represent the people of the US and serve as per their oath "will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". I'm referring to employees that work to support a corrupt government and to whom, money and employment buys their loyalty.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Just keep in mind some of those very people you are blasting found the fed is the best way to prepare against the inevitable collapse of the American way.

Also if there is a major base near bye odds are high that a large percentage of the civil service community will be retired military or military spouses.

I understand the hatred but I prefer to place the blame higher up the ladder.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
The military which I fully support and admire represent the people of the US and serve as per their oath "will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". I'm referring to employees that work to support a corrupt government and to whom, money and employment buys their loyalty.

The above oath is taken by every single Federal employee upon entering Federal service, not just the military.