Freedom of Speech vs. Bullying: So, which is it?

I have a very important question for you ATS. In light of the recent Paris shootings, AND the whole "The Interview" fiasco, I have heard quite a bit of the term "Freedom of Speech" being tossed around. Now, obviously, as a red blooded American, I love the fact that we have this freedom, and am ALL for it. That being said, in regards to the Interview movie, it was talking about killing an actual leader of an actual nation. This surely would upset the Obama admin. if there were a movie about someone killing or assassinating him. So its understandable that Kim would be a little angry, but we do have freedom of speech, so its all good.

Then, as far as the Paris killings. This paper has been posting these "offensive: cartoons for years, and they have also been being threatened for years, including a bombing a few years back. Yet, with their freedom of speech, they continued to release these cartoons, as if they were goading the very people they were offending. However, they have freedom of speech so thats ok, right? Oh, and while we are on the subject of "Freedom of Speech", I just want to remind you how just last year, the WORLD was ready to crucify Clippers owner Donald Sterling, for, in the privacy of his own home mind you, being illegally recorded mind you, discussing his dislike for having African Americans in photos with his wife. Where the hell was "Freedom of Speech" then?

Now, lets talk about bullying, cyber or school, or workplace. Every time a teen commits suicide, the claim usually comes out that they were being bullied. Everyone is so outraged. The bullying MUST stop right? What is bullying? Making fun of someone because they are different or have different beliefs than you? Spreading rumors about someone? Maybe drawing nasty pictures of someone? Believe me, I am no fan of bullies, I was bullied in school, and it was horrible. I didnt want to kill myself because of it, but I do think it helped to thicken my skin for later in life. A lot of kids go through it. Fact is, it does and always has happened, its part of life.

Now with all that being said, can we call what Hebdo has been doing bullying in a sense? While I agree, and Ill say it now, I do not think that anybody should have been killed or hurt just because of some cartoons about their god. Im just saying, that, along with the N. Korea thing, is this kind of bullying that is going on? About Freedom of speech, should we not be able to bully and make fun of who we want, and talk about our dislike for other people and other races, without being crucified for it? Is it not just our "Freedom of Speech"? What do you think ATS?
Sorry for rambling, I have just been pondering this a lot lately and would like to see where others sit on this?

a reply to: thesmokingman

So its understandable that Kim would be a little angry, but we do have freedom of speech, so its all good.

That's if they did the hack which is by no means certain , as for a movie about killing a president there was Death of a President in 06.

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it ... Voltaire
Just because you disagree with someone doesn't give you the right to kill them.

Now with all that being said, can we call what Hebdo has been doing bullying in a sense?

No , it's satire.

Freedom of speech is Freedom if speech. Don Sterling has nothing to do with killing people. Why bring his name up over a terrorist attack?

Stand up comedians make a living making fun of people maybe they need to be silenced so some don't get offended.

We have freedom of speech but we also have personal responsibility not to abuse it. If too many people start abusing it this right can start to disappear. Freedom of speech and right of assembly do not allow us to riot or destroy the property of others that had nothing to do with the situation either. Slandering someone is not covered by our freedom of speech. The judicial system knows that people sometimes do things in the heat of the moment that they would not do if they weren't fired up and does allow lighter penalties for minor first time offenders. Don't push it or you will wind up with freedom of speech and a lot of fines and possibly jail time. Learn to stay civil even when others loose their cool.

originally posted by: mugger
Freedom of speech is Freedom if speech. Don Sterling has nothing to do with killing people. Why bring his name up over a terrorist attack?

Because the thread is not just about a terror attack. It was merely a juxtaposition of two current/recent events. I thought that was obvious.

a reply to: thesmokingman

We haven't had much to agree on before but I'm with you. A couple if times I've said freedom of speech comes with responsibility. Responses? Crickets.

Something is inherently wrong and I don't know what it is. Arrogance?

a reply to: thesmokingman

bullying is overused.
It implies there is overt power and subordination.

Two peers can't bully each other. A prison guard can bully a prisoner, not the other way around.

People programmed with religious memes pervert reality as needed to retroactively craft a narrative in line with their rules of conduct.

Bring back the two peers but this time one crafts an elaborate narrative of mental anguish and indignation. The person with the delusion can now believe they are the victim of bullying. It's not real though, so what are you supposed to do? join their meme? Hell no.

The situation in Paris had nothing to do with bullying. The attack was carried out by degenerate neanderthals with absolutely no tolerance for anyone, or anything, they disagree with.

Even if it could be remotely tied to bullying, I'd counter that the Paris newspaper folks were being bullied into silence... except, they didn't concede to bullying.

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: thesmokingman

We haven't had much to agree on before but I'm with you. A couple if times I've said freedom of speech comes with responsibility. Responses? Crickets.

Something is inherently wrong and I don't know what it is. Arrogance?

I totally agree. You can say whatever you want, just be ready to accept the repercussions of said speech. Also, yes, I believe it is extreme arrogance.

An interesting Macleans article on this last month:

www.macleans.ca...

You have 'Freedom of Speech' but 'Freedom after Speech', that I cannot guarantee.

a reply to: thesmokingman


Funny that phrase ... FREEDOM OF SPEECH which we are told we

have and should be so proud of having.

Then you go on to mention Donald Sterling who was only

exercising this very same freedom of speech in the private

confines of his own home ... and then being crucified for the

content!!


FREEDOM OF SPEECH LOL!! Not for every one!!

I belive freedom of speech and bulling are 2 differnet things, yes you are free to say what you like to anyone, if you choose to use your freedom of speech to make someones life hell you are a bully, a bully uses his freeedom of speech for hateful reasons.

I belive they are not the same but one is used by the other.

a reply to: thesmokingman

Hey there smokingman

I came across this other new thread today which touches on your question.

Here it is

a reply to: kamatty

Here's the thing though: Someone is using their freedom of speech to bully someone. Why don't others, use their freedom of speech, to take a stand with the bullied?

Freedom of speech does come with responsibilities. However, those responsibilities swing both ways. I'd argue that we should be responsible enough to take a stand for the downtrodden and for those whom can't stand for themselves. Not exercising that type of freedom of speech is cowardly.

a reply to: EternalSolace

Then you shouldn't have a problem burning a pile if q'urans in the street with a cartoon of muhummad on your back. Right?

Yes, the Muslims right now are like a tinder box of fanatics. No point exacerbating the issue just because you can. IMO

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: thesmokingman

Hey there smokingman

I came across this other new thread today which touches on your question.

Here it is

Cool, thank you for that. I will definitely give it a read. Very relative to this thread.

a reply to: thesmokingman

There is no question or comparison.

To call something "bullying" is adding a perception of meaning. If something can have two meanings, it has no meaning, except the meaning you give it.

Doodling on a piece of paper, then printing the paper and selling it? To not be permitted to do that because of somebody else's beliefs is tyranny.

I'm not even sure why this is being discussed. The bullying is what's being done by those who make the choice to be offended.

Is Being Offend A Personal Choice?

a reply to: FlySolo

There's also no point in bowing to fanatics that would have each and everyone us of killed for not being of Islam. You don't give up a right, regardless of how it's used, because someone throws a temper tantrum.