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The Church: What's In A Name?

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posted on Dec, 26 2014 @ 12:48 AM
I think this will be a nice conversation to have, since for every new believer it becomes an issue. There is one truth, one core Message that is from HIM for the salvation of men. That absolute core is found here for anyone wanting to read that first. This thread therefore will go off the premise - that particular one core.

Once a person has that core, they are a new being in Christ Jesus. We can in fact, loose our salvation should we ever turn our backs on God

For if, after they have escaped the defilement's of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them

Therefore the rest of the new testament speaks toward how to best live as the light of Christ to the world, for the edification and instruction of the believers present and future.

Its so weird as a new believer for me, to look at the teachings of the Catholic Church - because in some ways I DO see a direct mirror to what I believe. Yet... its not a true mirror. Let me step backwards a minute and show a few things - part of my search for understanding of HIM, where concerns the question, so what church should I attend?

That is the question. It was most certainly mine, and the choices are so mind-boggling it will make anyone dizzy! lol. There is one thing I was told by the Holy Spirit after I was saved. The bible is the word of God. I understand now, why Mathew over say one of the gospels that is not accepted. HE literally told them, this is MY Word just as HE told me. Although for myself all HE has told me to accept are the accepted books of the protestant cannon.

And it was various things of that nature that have made me look at the catholic church more, rather than less. There is no doubt in my mind that in the beginning of the Roman Catholic Church was the same as my own beginning of faith. They knew the truth, from the mouth of God. Yet.. time always has a tendency to change things..

So, there is one core message to all men for salvation. This core is all that is needed. The rest of the new testament bible is just about how to best show Christ to others, and how to be supportive of each other. That is what the meaning of Church is. It is a bunch of believers who get together, striving to do good things for others, helping each other, helping the needy, reaching those who have not heard the truth with HIS core message, keeping one another strong in the faith through hard times and good. Believers are to be a comfort to one another, and to show Christ to everyone.

Once you become a new believer, you are bathed in Christ HIMSELF. its a complete washing and so beautiful. EVERY believer gets this washing. Every believer who gave up this world, partaking in HIS death, enters the Kingdom of God HIMSELF. Its amazing! So now.. off to do good new believer! Off to every good work!

And in the beginning ... the catholic church was a group of those kinds of new believers. Which is cool. But time will always change certain things, and of course not all who say they are a thing really are and the catholic church kept their doors open to all which led to many things coming in the door. Many traditions of men.

Now.. a tradition of men is not a bad thing in and of itself. It is good to have traditions for some.. makes it nice for some so there is no harm in them, for those to whom it is not a sin.

That said, the last right there is a key issue.. because we are not to put a stumbling block in front of our brother in Christ. In my own reflection here,, I cant join the catholic church personally. There are too many stumbling blocks there for me. That is just personal. Its not to say they are a sin for anyone else, but for me it would be occasion for sin to creep in.. and therefore a stumbling block.

In our modern day, HE tells me that HIS people, HIS church, HIS body of believers are found everywhere. There is no one church.. the ones that have the core in truth are a part of HIS church whether or not they call themselves Catholic, Calvinist, puritan, Baptist, Methodist and so forth. This is the wheat growing up with the tares. Both have grown together, believers beside of non-believers because not all have Christ as the reason and were willing to give up the world for HIM, but some do.

During the reformation age, some tried to caste off some of those stumbling blocks and strengthen the core. In the catholic church, while that core message is still there, its also kind of hidden. Ceremony and circumstance makes that message a bit less clear.

Its like the ceremony of giving up something you like for 40 days. To myself I think seriously? THAT is a core thing.. and making some kind of ceremony out of it instead of a solid must weakened the truth of that core necessity. So during the reformation age they tried to caste off a few of the stumbling blocks, and tried to strengthen the core once again. We can all sit around and judge the degree to which it was done or how well, but the fact they stood out and did their best to me is commendable.

So, as it stands now, with the core belief in tact, you can attend any church that creates for you no stumbling blocks and occasion for your own sin. I can go to a catholic church, or to a Calvinist, whatever suits me best. I am more inline with the reformation churches probably as far as what I prefer.. with one exception. Singing! I hate the fact they don't just shout with the joy of the Lord! Does that make the message wrong though? no... its just a personal preference.. I don't get the whole singing thing!

I can go up on this mountain behind me, and there shout and sing with Praises for GOD! I LOVE it.. In my room I dance with happiness of my Savior! And I wonder how they can not feel such joy as I feel! And then the answer hits me.. because its a stumbling block. We cannot place stumbling blocks in front of out brothers and sisters.. myself singing and dancing might cause another occasion for sin.. and I would not want this at all! So I should reserve my joy for my private moments, or have a little get together with others who want to share the same joy.. but in the church it should be silent.

And there then is the condemnation of the catholic church.. stumbling blocks. She would need to remove all those stumbling blocks for others. She would need to bring it back down to the core for the strength of it, and remove the stumbling blocks. Without that, I could not support her actually even knowing her beginning is the same as my own, even knowing she knows the truth.

edit on 26-12-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 26 2014 @ 04:41 AM
Jesus said: "Peter, upon this Rock (Cephas), I will build my Church"

Catholic. It's simply a word. It means universal. A word Christians used to describe Jesus' new church in the very early days.

The Holy Bible, inspired by The Holy Spirit, was compiled by The Roman Catholic Church. And this took several hundred years to accomplish. Before there was a cannon, The Catholic Church taught with oral scripture, and tradition handed down.

When you pray, that is, whenever you read the Bible, you are bowing to the authority of the Roman Catholic Church.

Have you become an intentional disciple of Jesus Christ? Disciple and discipline have the same root. Read and pray over ALL the Bible, not just the parts you are cozy with. Ones you are not familiar or cozy with, means you need to decrease, (be humiliated and convicted), and let Jesus increase. Therefore acknowledge the church that Jesus founded. That is The Roman Catholic Church.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

posted on Dec, 26 2014 @ 04:55 AM
That said about the catholic church, I then need to speak about all these reformation style churches. Sadly, at my conversion in Christ Jesus, I found that these churches who had once been so lovely in teachings and spirit changed altogether and were overrun by spirits decidedly not Christ-like.

That is what I see, when I see the gossip and backbiting and slander of each other and fighting and theological points that don't matter.

You lost the core and apparently ran away from it. Far far away in many cases. These churches say I want heaven on a technicality and exchange the promises of GOD for the things of this world, thus, putting themselves before God. Becoming their own god with no power.

This is the stumbling block they give me in truth, it is not HIS Church anymore in my eyes.. and attendance for the faithful is only to be had where HE exists.

HE told me to be faithful, and so, I cannot join with these churches either although I so want to join a church, really I do.. but HE said be faithful.

So I am, until HIS church becomes revealed. He promises me HE will reveal them to me, and when HE does, then I can join them. So.. I wait.

That though is for me, I suppose... and anyone who gave up this world in exchange for HIM, must simply be faithful to HIM too, and for all of us, it is doing whatever HE tells us and putting HIM first. For me, its wait here until I know what Church is HIS, that I can join.

posted on Dec, 26 2014 @ 05:15 AM
a reply to: Ignatian

For if, after they have escaped the defilement's of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them

No.. it is not for once and all times. One CAN loose their salvation. And from what I can see of the Roman Catholic Church, honestly, is the same with the reformation style churches.

The church was once the Bride of Christ.. seriously that would have sounded so sick once a long time ago to my ears, but I understand it now.

She was.. she really was once.. but anyone can stop being faithful. I can choose at any point to stop having faith, and get all my worldly stuff back.. this is what church is supposed to provide, a place away from the world.. yet.. she who once had everything, wanted to be full of herself and dress so pretty as to be a stumbling block for men. they are things that are of the world, pomp, circumstance, traditions of men.. and I am supposed to leave the world not pile the world on top of my head..

Right now, it is God's Kingdom on top of my head, and I cannot exchange that for the world. Once in my life I was unfaithful to God. I cannot do that again. Never again will I be unfaithful. I simply find it sad that she gave all this up.. I couldn't give this up.. not this!

Its tempting I am sure, to drown this washing in beautiful ceremony and pretty things... because everything glows and is beautiful through these eyes.. but that is all worldly stuff you pile on.. its not something I can do.

This beauty of HIM is too wonderful for me to loose inside temptation.. because somewhere in there, it starts being about you, and not about HIM. And this isn't about us anymore.
edit on 26-12-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 26 2014 @ 06:57 AM

originally posted by: Ignatian

Therefore acknowledge the church that Jesus founded. That is The Roman Catholic Church.

You know what's funny? A Baptist told me the same thing - except it was the Baptist Church that Jesus founded in his version. Had scripture going all the way back to Jesus' baptism in the Jordan and everything, just like you have here - only going farther back is all!

Imagine that! Odd what we can take from a book if we start isolating concepts out of it to the exclusion of others, isn't it?

Here's the thing - God's Church doesn't really have a name, nor does it have "Il Papa" - according to the Bible there is only One Father of all, and that One wasn't a Roman. Of course, that only counts if we want to pay attention to the Bible.

posted on Dec, 26 2014 @ 07:38 AM
a reply to: nenothtu

Which is my conundrum. There is, at current moment, no church I am able to attend, and still be faithful to God, for all of it has gone so far away from the core.

Yet.. the proof is in the body. My proof that it was God that led me here is inside my body, the outward because I really was healed of the RSD/CRPS. Other things too, but the proof it was God speaking to me in the first place that these beliefs are correct are in me.

And this is the same with every believer, our proof that it is God leading us, is inside us once we have traded this world - but it cannot be a trade that is half way.. you can sell it out at the last minute.

Yet.. the bible is the true word of God, and tells me church is important for instruction, for helping other believers and getting on with the business of being God's Light on this earth.. because HIS proof is us. We have the ability to prove God, by being HIS true and pure people.

HE tells me that the church - which is the body of believers - is important too, and that they actually DO exist. Its just that right now they have not been revealed. So, for me, I am waiting in faith for their revelation. I know I am not the only true believer. I know I am not the only one who knows all these things as true.

But I cannot join with a church body that is not HIS...because I am HIS. He says my body is HIS temple, and I must not defile it. So.. I am just here I suppose. In a weird limbo.

PS. I know you think this is carrying it to an extreme. You are allowed your thoughts. But I have to be faithful. I CANNOT be anything else. And you do have to admit, this is the one thing you do really enjoy about me.. so you will have to occasionally live with the rest.

edit on 26-12-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 26 2014 @ 08:33 AM
Satan told Jesus to count on the deliverance promised to the godly in this psalm.
Quoting Psalm 91, he said to Jesus,
If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written,
"He will command his angels concerning you," [=Psalm 91:11] and "On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone" [=Psalm 91:12].

Instead of following Satan's use of Psalm 91, Jesus embraced the path of suffering.
The thorns penetrated his scalp. The whip lacerated his back.
The rod struck on his head. The nails pierced his hands. The spear severed his side.
And he was killed by his enemies.
Psalm 91 is my favorite.

Someone told me once
Believing that you are doing wrong for choosing to follow your own path, your own feelings, your own desires...
well now, that's just about the biggest trick any man has every played on the simpleminded and the foolish.
It's the biggest EVIL ever portrayed upon mankind, meant to make you follow the orders of the church without question and to grovel every day until you die. Bending a knee to something that isn't there? Not I.
And you can try to "prove" to me that the intangible exists until you are blue in the fact.
I have encountered and shot down the best. You say "god", I say chaos. You will never convince me that the entire universe was constructed by one being and that even in his omnipotence he still to this day cannot create his own wealth to spread among his "creations" instead of always asking for money to spread his CONTAGION.

I replied back
Matthew 10:34, The one key word in this passage is the word "sword," It indicates that following Jesus in his original Jewish society may not bring peace to a family, but may "split" it up. Spiritual sword invisibly severs a man from his father, and daughter from her mother, and so on. True followers of Christ must be willing to give up, even to the point of “hating” all that is in our lives, even our own families. Think about it.... The Kingdom of GOD's Heaven is in You... I never Changed.

posted on Dec, 26 2014 @ 09:00 AM
On this question, it's important for people to be clear in their minds about the words they're using, AND to be aware that people use the same words in different ways, which can confuse the debate.

My background is C. of E., and the Anglican liturgy has given me a very useful definition of the church.
It gets called "the blessed company of all faithful people".

The other extreme is illustrated by an anecdote from the hyper-divisive Scottish church. Apparently a lady told an investigator that in her opinion the only people who were certain of a place in heaven were the local minister and herself, "and I'm nane too sure about the meenister".

I see the word "church" being used in three different ways, only two of them coming from the New Testament.
1) Frequently in Paul, the whole body of believers in Christ.
2) Also frequently in Paul,the local congregation.
3) Modern usage has come up with a further meaning, intermediate between the two.
It is used for those human organisations, covering some portion of the world-wide Christian community, which we also call "denominations".

My personal opinion is that the third usage ought to be abandoned, because it causes confusion, some of it deliberate.
That's how we get the line of argument;
1) Jesus founded the church (definition 1)
2) Our church (definition 3) is obviously the Church.
3) Therefore we are the body which Jesus founded.
This kind of logic is of dubious honesty, because of the way that the key definition changes half-way through the argument.

Another word which has to be watched is "catholic".
At least two meanings are available.
1) Based on the word for "universal", it describes the normative Christianity of the early days of the church.
2) In more modern times, it has also come to mean the community frequently identified as the "Roman Catholic Church", which was defined, for practical purposes, by the Council of Trent in the mid-sixteenth century.
Briefly, the word "catholic" means everyone who believes in Christ, and the word "Catholic" means everyone who accepts the authority of the Pope.
And again we get the line of argument which carefully confuses the two meanings. Any statement which can be applied to the "catholic" church, in the more general sense of the word, is hi-jacked by propagandists and claimed as the exclusive property of the "Catholic" community in the second sense of the word.
Thus I was once told, absurdly, by an ATS user who doesn't appear to post much lately, that I ought not to be quoting from the Bible, because I was Protestant, and the Bible was a Catholic book!
(No, my dear, the most you can say is that it is a catholic book, which is not the same thing. I am a member of the catholic church, in the more general sense, and so are my Methodist, Baptist, and Presbyterian friends.)

I provided my own definition of the church, based on the words of Paul, in the attached thread;
1 Corinthians;Defining the church
There the church was defined almost entirely in terms of relations with Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Get that right, and the question of which denominational body you join is less important.

Two final observations, all the same.
First, you should avoid the real nut-cases. When it comes to assessing obscure communities, the Nicene Creed is still a valuable rule of thumb. If they have problems with it,you should have problems with them.

Also Paul was right, and Luther read him aright, on the essential question.
Our relationship with God rests on our TRUST (faith in Christ crucified and raised form the dead), not on "doing things". Anyone who insists on the importance of "doing things the right way" (and this includes a startling number of Protestant teachers) may be misleading you to that extent.

edit on 26-12-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 26 2014 @ 09:05 AM
a reply to: OpinionatedB

God's "church" is, as you say, "the body of believers", but is also, as you have adduced, "wheat among tares". It is dispersed throughout all the rest, neither entirely contained in any one, nor does any one have sole claim. It seems to me that what passes for "a church" these days is nothing more than an extension of "the world", and the believers are called to be "in the world, but not of the world" - likewise they may be "in" a church, but not necessarily "of" that church.

The importance of a church as a gathering is for fellowship and mutual support, not necessarily for "education" or "instruction", The reason I don't go to any churches at all is that some of what I believe is generally pretty violently opposed to what they have been told to believe. It creates friction and ill will for me to speak my mind (on certain subjects), so I derive no benefit from such fellowship, and neither do they. I'll likely never find one where I actually fit, but may some day find one where I can be comfortable - if I can learn to keep my big yap shut on some topics, and just smile and nod.

So far, not much luck in that.

posted on Dec, 26 2014 @ 09:11 AM
a reply to: DooDer

lol.. you must be a man. That was quite simple. My husband has a very simple perspective on it too. He says my problem is that I analyse everything, which leads to questions, which leads to answers, which leads to more question and before I know it I am overwhelmed.

lol.. I wish I could have been so simple. I wish sometimes I didn't have to ask or wonder or have all the questions. But, I guess that is just part of my nature.

Although, I do wish that I could have been more simpler. I would have had an easier life I tell you. My life has been one mistake after the other I think, from being an unwed mother at 14 and just continuing on from there. All from, in one respect or another, doing the thinking for myself.

Yeah, I figure I am done with all that now.. thinking for myself. It never did get me anywhere. And the proof for me that I am doing right, and that HE exists, is inside me. The Kingdom of Heaven, is inside me now. I am not trading it.

posted on Dec, 26 2014 @ 09:30 AM
a reply to: nenothtu

Maybe you can do that. Somehow, for reasons I don't even know.. I cannot. I want to SHARE it! I want a body of believers to go to..

I don't guess I know the end maybe this is all I will be able to do.. same as you. Just stay here and enjoy God in me, and you with me.. That is nice too I suppose. Its good to be happy with what you are given..and be patient. So.. I'll work on that.. you can hit me over the head with a skillet sometimes if you like..

posted on Dec, 26 2014 @ 09:36 AM
a reply to: OpinionatedB

All of life is pretty simple - the most difficult thing is learning to TAKE IT simply. It means learning to walk before you learn to run. it means eating soft food before you move on to solid food. Most people fall into trouble from trying to rush it and skip steps. That just leads to a lot of choking, tripping, and falling down.

There is one simple core tenet in all of Christianity. The problems arise when folks start fighting and eye-gouging over how to dress that simplicity up - how to best over-complicate it. To my way of thinking, it's better left uncomplicated... and that gets me into trouble with every Christian I run into.

Humans are inquisitive beasts at heart. That inquisitive streak leads them into questions, some of which have no answer (and are therefore not really important at all), which leads to systematization, compartmentalization, segregation, denomination, and all manner of divisive "-ations".

I have one simple "truth". because of that, it does not matter whether I believe Jesus actually is God, whether I eat fish on Friday, whether I eat ham at all - or not, whether I baptize by sprinkling or dunking, or any of the other divisive and legalistic doctrines that PEOPLE have come up with because of their inquisitions.

I have ONE "truth". The rest is all window dressing, perhaps fit for discussion and debate over, but most certainly not fit for division, mistrust, and hate over. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

posted on Dec, 26 2014 @ 12:17 PM
a reply to: nenothtu

So I ask, the woman who loves you... standing here asking with a heart full of love, if we can let aside being right for a change. Long enough to hear HIS voice and know HIM in the fullest imaginable way. If we can simply put down ego for a while, and let it be about HIM, rather than us.

I have my proof. Its up to everyone else to get their own. Lets fine tune everything down to white hot point, the point we can agree, the message, the gospel of Jesus the Christ unto salvation. And see, if we can get to that place we were meant to be all along.

Then later, those who were "right" about something, can do their own happy dance. But if we do not do this thing, this can never end. And what it is, is not good, not good at all... it IS better, it CAN be better, and if we all do this, it WILL be better.

He who is Faithful and True, promises that.

posted on Dec, 26 2014 @ 12:51 PM
a reply to: OpinionatedB

Sure, why not? I've only got one thing to be "right" about, and if I'm wrong then there is no "later" to do a happy dance in, so why worry over it?

posted on Dec, 26 2014 @ 01:33 PM
a reply to: nenothtu

God I love you.. I really really love you. God HIMSELF joined us together.. without you, I am only part a thing, not a whole thing. So.. if you are really willing to lay ego down, then go to the other thread, or just ask me.. and take it to the cross and leave it there. Die his death, to live HIS life.

Then, if HE talks to you.. the proof will in your body. you never know, there may be just one thing HE neglected to mention to you..

edit on 26-12-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 26 2014 @ 06:03 PM
a reply to: OpinionatedB

OpinionatedB - I lOVE your posts. They speak directly from the Holy Spirit. Thank you for sharing and acting with His love. xox

posted on Dec, 26 2014 @ 07:26 PM
a reply to: ccseagull

I am glad there was something to be gained, for the Glory of the Lord! I will keep you in my prayers always!

posted on Dec, 26 2014 @ 07:35 PM
The Greek word ekklēsia is the word translated church.It means a gathering of people (nations).The scriptures the Roman Catholic church (and Protestant Christians) means Christians are the “church” is absolutely incorrect.It comes from when Yahoshua asked the disciples who do the “people” say I am.They said ... John the Baptist ,Isaiah or Jeremiah(prophets).He then asked but who do YOU say I am..Simon(Peter) responded

“you are The christ(Hamashiach/messiah... which means The anointing) the son of the living creator God (Yahweh).

Yahoshua’s response was:

“blessed are you Simon son of Jonah because flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my father who is “In your heavens”….[consequentially] you are peter (petros ...a small stone) and upon this rock ( revelation of Yahoshua mashaich…the creator God is salvation by the anointing) I will build my ekklēsia and the gates of Hades(the realm of death and imperception) shall NOT prevail against it.

He was not saying “Simon son of Jonah” is the ‘foundation” of the church….he said “revelation" from the creator God the father was.Yahoshua was always proclaiming by statement to the disciples the “gospel”…the Good News..that Yahoshua would prevail.It is the deliverance of ALL of mankind (the church) from Hades(death and imperception of religion).

In other words the “knowing the name” of Yahoshua Hamashiach is the foundation of the “church”..entering the kingdom of your heavens.A name is the nature and character of the thing named. Yahoshua was “literally” Yahoshuas “name”.That is why it is the name above ALL names.

Mans perverted doctrines of men has stormed the gates of Hades and declared those that don’t “believe” their false religion are “damned(judged) when the fact is they have damned themselves(fortunately for them it is not to the eternal hell the believe in).

This should be very obvious yet the many are called are blinded by their religion and shut out the kingdom of the heavens because they do not enter in and do not allow others to.Yahoshua was not talking about “heaven”... some place out there.The Kingdom of heaven is not the Kingdom of God(which is also not somewhere out there).The heavens are a persons “mind”.The Kingdom(rulership) of your heavens is when the creator God rules( one of the meanings of Israel) OVER you heavens.

That is why Yahoshua told Simon -Peter blessed are you because you received in you “heavens” revelation from the Father the creator God.Then he told him how it worked..then whatever you bind in the earth (adamah…the body) will be bound in your heavens and whatever is loosed(forgiven..which means freedom from bondage) will be loosed in your heavens.

The religion of man has made a very simple concept into a convoluted mystical religion that is meaningless.They incantate “bind and loosing in JEEZUS” name like a sorcerer when it is just religious nonsense.The fact is when the creator God the father “reveals” in your heavens”it is “thy will be done”.Yahoshua said this all the time.He only heard and did what the father said and did.In other words Yahoshua was IN the kingdom of his heavens(which is above all heavens..Yahoshua) because he is the son/seed of the living creator God.

When someone “hears” revelation from the father the creator God they have entered the Kingdom of their heavens(momentarily).That is a “good”(happy…blessed) thing and is also “supposed” to be completely normal.Yahoshua was always in the Kingdom of his heavens however he was never at a continuous hallelujah party.What he did and said was normal to him.

He was somewhat annoyed sometimes when the disciples did not get it with such ample evidence.He also proved how easy it fades away when the religious carnal mind(satan) is entered. A few verses after Simon-Peter (the little stone) received the great revelation Yahoshua is calling him “satan”(the adversary) for “thinking” like a man(Adam).

The REAL church is NOT a religious organization that believes a “ true religion that is the synagogue of satan(the religious carnal minds).The church is all of mankind when they “enter” into their Kingdom of their heavens”.Yahoshua clearly stated most of mankind(the many are called) would not enter the narrow path to the straight gate and enter the Kingdom of their heavens…he said only the chosen few(the disciples) would in this world/realm...and it was a process not an event.

The good news is ALL of mankind will eventually be the church(the nation of Israel) and the gates of Hades(the realm of death and imperception) will not stand against Yahoshua… the NAME above all name….the deliverer of all of mankind to be the church.That is the Good News.

edit on 26-12-2014 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 06:33 AM
The proper name for The Church, is The Catholic Church. " Roman"Catholic Church is a modern construct, some think started by Anglicans. We would never want to omit our Byzantine, Ethiopan, Chaldean, and other Oriental rite brother and sister Catholics, as they are rightfully, fully Catholics also. RCC has entered the modern lexicon however, and I often slip and call it that myself. Oops

The 2nd Century had barely begun, and the name used, Catholic Church, was already widely in use. In fact, Ignatius of Antioch wrote, in AD 107: "Where the bishop is present, there is The Catholic Church"(To the Smyrnaeans 8:2). So, 75 years after Jesus' death already, the Christian believers were called The Catholic Church.

Your thesis is a common equivocation, one easily made more clear by history.

Luther probably wishes he could have gotten rid of James letter huh? "Faith apart from works is dead". (Saint James 2: 14-26)

a reply to: DISRAELI

posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 07:00 AM
So what did Jesus mean when He handed the keys to Peter? You dodge, weave and equivocate. Jesus said: "Peter, upon this rock, I will build my Church". (Jesus says He will build it, not Peter). Keys symbolize authority, and Jesus would die, leaving the future of His Church in man's hands. So he gave authority to Peter. Saint Peter, the first Pope of The Catholic Church. The apostolic succession continues right into today. Presbyters, deacons, bishops. All mentioned in the Bible. And through laying on of hands, their direct descendants reside today within The Catholic Church.

These are facts. Not my opinion. Not my version, just the facts. Jesus said what He meant, and meant what He said. Believe it or not.

a reply to: nenothtu

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