The God Dilemma - Choice Between Two Undesirable Outcomes

Consider His problem. God desires the creation of new life like himself for fellowship. Knowing the simple truth, he is face with a Dilemma.

The Simple Truth

The highest good and supreme path of goodness is giving. Taking is the will of the thief. For God to offer free will, the possibility of the thief is created by the choice to create. Le't examine the clues in a simple form. I will save you the trouble of verses.

Elohim and Ruach Elohim say, "Let US make mankind (ADAM) in OUR image." From these simple words, we have the image of Adam as both male and female. They then rest from their labors, allowing free will and the first choice to then proceed. We are then introduced to Yahweh and the Satan he made to be cunning. In Job, we see Satan as the accuser (Conscience) of man. In the OT, we see Yahweh as the adversary to evil, using Satan as the whispering mouth to his self-righteous ear.

We then see the promise of salvation from death emerge with the NT. From the NT, we learn that we are born again in baptism (Flood of Noah) as the process to resurrect into a new person below. From this process, the Lamb (Adam) is refined. Adam's blood was first shed by Yahweh in the Garden to divide the image. This division allowed Yahweh to then deceive Eve (Weaker nature of Adam). The deception was a means to an end. By taking the naked creation of God and dividing it, Yahweh was then able to prompt mankind into a struggle against the temptation he provided.

There were three outcomes stated by Satan by his own words. We must assume Yahweh had knowledge of what would happen.

1) If you eat the fruit, you become like God. We were already like God, but naked. We had no knowledge of good and evil.

2) If you eat, your eyes would be opened. This was true. They now had the perspective of division from God's image.

3) If you eat, you will know good and evil. This, again, is true. We now know the difference and can choose.

As we are told in the NT, Satan will go to an abyss prepared for him as an enemy of God. The dilemma is clear now. How can God stand justified if he condemns his created enemy? We can easily see Yahweh as different from God by purpose. Yahweh proclaimed himself God, but clearly has the will to take, divide and destroy. This is the description of Satan as the accuser and destroyer. The adversary of man has always been Yahweh and the influence of war and division.

Again, the dilemma presents itself on a host of levels. Who prepared Jesus / Joshua in Zachariah 3? That was Yahweh. Who promised to send a savior for HIS people Israel? Yahweh. By his people, we see defiance against Elohim's Rainbow promise to bless all mankind in Genesis 9. We also see a contradiction to Adam hanging on the cross to pay the blood cost.

Genesis 9

6 “Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans shall their blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made mankind.

Here is yet another Dilemma. Yahweh shed Adam's blood as the perfect lamb of sacrifice. As we find out with Abraham and Issac, the Son is not the one to be sacrificed. There is a scapegoat. The ram is caught in the thicket.

I will propose that Yahweh was the scapegoat and was connected with Azazel of the Book of Enoch. We know that Christ was said to be the one that was (past), is (present) and is to come (future King). We are also told of the one that was (Past), is not (Present) and is to come (future). Yahweh is missing from the New Testament. As we find out in Revelation, Satan is cast from Heaven in the end times.

Who is Satan? The Dilemma of God. Mankind was naked when presented with a cunning enemy. We are charged with overcoming the enemy. Jesus said to forgive enemies or we are not forgiven.

Ultimately, the dilemma of God is gaining our forgiveness. Why? He allowed for the enemy so that we could be like Him. He had already overcome his own enemy. The pathway of creation is realizing how we can do the same.

Apart from forgiving God, we are not ourselves forgiven.

1 Corinthians 15

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

After the dust settles form the coming wars and fire of the enemies of God, how do we respond today? As continually divided creatures, how can we respond to an enemy we ourselves continue to embrace?

God's dilemma becomes ours in a direct reflection, as in a mirror.

The Answer

1 Corinthians 13

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Choose Love and then forgive enemies. Pathos removes the accuser and the need for the adversary. Love overcomes. Even the scapegoat could choose love by confessing the sin and turning. It boils down to our own choice of will.

Choose to take the name that means giving, or choose to remain the thief on the cross that was left alone. There were two thieves on the cross around Jesus. One repented and the other refused. The only enemy is within us all. God only provided the means to an end.

Choice. I now turn to the Bhagavad Gita for the next level of answers. Watch it in upcoming threads. After reading it from beginning to end yesterday, I now have opened eyes to the need for the Biblical adversary. From the pages of the Gita, the Lord in the process is revealed.

One last Dilemma. If Christ is a deception, what was he trying to show God by asking for enemies to be forgiven? The same answer God is trying to show us. The twist to the story.

a reply to: AlephBet

The "choice" isn't about choosing 'God or the Devil', its about choosing to go with or against what we know is right in our heart.

Not about absolutes but more about the little everyday choices we make that add up over a lifetime.

Try not to judge whether you have hit the mark or not, thats impossible (because you aren't the judge). Just try and do the right thing in the moment as you are given to see it.

We aren't supposed to decide our fate based on the choices someone else gives us…

"I ain't gonna call it"--

a reply to: AlephBet

90% of your statement were proven to be false days ago!

a reply to: intrptr

The Bible represents the words of the Yahweh (Self-righteous) mind. The introduction of Satan is then the accuser (conscience) of Yahweh himself. The point is to see this from 1 Corinthians 13 and love. As Buddha states, "hate cannot dispel hate. Only love dispels hate." We are seeing the works of Yahweh crumble on this planet as mirrored by our corporate choices. As the Gita points out, we live in a large universe. We are placed on worlds that assist us in achieving the world to come. I would assume that each world we occupy has a primary point to learn for the Sons of God. Below, every nation contains the parts of the whole. Above and below are mirrors.

Gospel of Philip

When the pearl is cast down into the mud, it becomes greatly despised, nor if it is anointed with balsam oil will it become more precious. But it always has value in the eyes of its owner. Compare the Sons of God: wherever they may be, they still have value in the eyes of their Father.

As children learning, we will be consumed in the fires of various trials. Again, the Gita points this out as the battle of mankind in the first chapter. In coming threads, I will outline the first 16 chapters of the Gita. There are direct parallels to the conclusions drawn from the Bible. One revels the other if eyes are open to see.

It goes back to the judgment idea. If I mention that the Gita holds ultimate truth, a fundamentalist fixed mindset would deny it outright. I do not take this path. I believe God is bigger than the nation of Israel. He is the Rainbow and promise to all nations. The pieces of the puzzle only fit if we examine the entire Mosaic. Mos means bits. Moses put the larger picture together from the bits. No stone was left upturned in that temple.

It is our job to put the pieces together again. It God's job to lead us on that path. We cannot do it alone.

originally posted by: IndependentAgent
a reply to: AlephBet

90% of your statement were proven to be false days ago!

Give it up. Your game here is one of derailing a thread. We know you as we know the rest of the users here who have this aim.

Zechariah 3

3 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan[a] standing at his right side to accuse him. 2 The Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, Satan! The Lord, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?”

He silences the accuser he made. You can do the same. I will do the same by continuing to show you the truth. Fell free to quote me, then use scripture as you have in past threads. From this, I will then show how you twist your words as an accuser. This is a good way for truth to then rise above error. It demonstrates the thread topic and premise clearly.

Continue.

a reply to: AlephBet

It is our job to put the pieces together again. It God's job to lead us on that path. We cannot do it alone.

Neither do we choose 'Heaven or Hell'. That choice is made on Judgment Day, right? Not that I believe it like you do, just making the point.

The only choice left to us is to do right or wrong in the moment according to what we are given to know.

Thats our choice. Our free will. Thats what makes us who we are, the sum of all those little choices presented to us all day long, every day of our lives.

Not "choosing God", thats silly. Thats not what life is "all" about.

Oooh, I heard the hair bristle. Stop regurgitating scripture in sermon fashion and just address the point.

Otherwise, last post.

a reply to: intrptr

Did you read the op? My point was will to give or will to take.

a reply to: AlephBet

he is face with a Dilemma.

"God" doesn't face any dilemma, he's God, right?

The supreme being? Perfect in every way?

Your answer just dodged the question.

nvm…

a reply to: AlephBet

We know you as we know the rest of the users here who have this aim.

Who else are you speaking for??

a reply to: AlephBet

Gospel of Philip

Gnostic heretical text. 3rd or 4th century invention from Alexandria, Egypt.

"But an even more striking heresy occurs earlier in the Philip text, where the author lays out a nice, logical argument for why the virgin-birth business is nonsense—and in the process, directly contradicts Luke 1:35 and the Apostle’s Creed:"

Link

a reply to: AlephBet

There is much that I disagree with you regarding your personal theology and conclusions. However, I understand relative-subjectivity ("Blind Men and An Elephant"), and accept that we simply see/experience the same truth/reality according to our individual relative and subjective lives.

In relation to your opening post, I first learned of the qualities "To Give" and "To Receive" while studying Kabbalah according to the teachings of Philip S. Berg. Rabbi Berg taught that "To Give" is the highest manifestation of God's Will, while "Receiving" is our surrender and acceptance of this divine giving. The correlations between Give/Receive and Take/Steal hold profound wisdoms. Give/Receive is akin to spiritual goodness, while Take/Steal is akin to psychological egotism.

To mindfully practice Giving and Receiving can benefit our emotional and mental states immensely! Because of the mirror neurons in our bodies, when we Give, we also Receive, and when we Receive, we also Give. The Giver and Receiver are One.

Peace.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

We can make the same argument for the four gospels not agreeing, or with Paul's words diverging from those of Jesus. We can take the Old Testament and show where the NT has variations to quotes from the OT. We can compare the Lord Adonai in the OT with that of Jesus as Lord Adonai in the NT. Between them, more variation. When believers pray to the Lord, they do not differentiate between either Lord. Why stop at the Gospel of Philip if this is the path we choose?

You can then Say that Satan is responsible for The Gnostic misconception. If you do this, you are right back again asking why Yahweh made Satan as a deceiver. You can then ask why Yahweh divided Adam's image. Fault with the texts never ends. I am after the truth in them. This is why I am moving on to the Bhagavad Gita in coming threads. There is a wealth of treasures yet to be found. By comparing all scriptures and texts, a larger view begins to emerge. By this, there is no reason to worry about the perceived errors. Exhausting the questions is my goal. Testing all things is the point. Clinging to good is the purpose.

Seek, Find and Adapt.

a reply to: AlephBet

You can't make the same argument. Gnostic texts weren't first century texts, they were written in the late 2nd - 4th century from Alexandria , Egypt. And were given name of apostles and early church leaders to try and give them legitimacy the author himself didn't have.

The title itself is heretical. "Gospel OF Philip"?? No, it's the Gospel (good news) of Jesus Christ, the 4 Biblical gospels don't even have this heresy as their titles:

"The Gospel according to Matthew"
"The Gospel according to Mark"..

Seek, Find and Adapt.

You are nothing more than a 21st century version of a 3rd century heretic.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Is that your judgment? Am I your enemy?


"There is a principle which is a bar against all information which is proof against all argument and which cannot fail to keep man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is condemnation before investigation." ~ Edmond Spenser

originally posted by: AlephBet
Consider His problem. God desires the creation of new life like himself for fellowship. Knowing the simple truth, he is face with a Dilemma.The Simple TruthThe highest good and supreme path of goodness is giving. Taking is the will of the thief. For God to offer free will, the possibility of the thief is created by the choice to create. Le't examine the clues in a simple form. I will save you the trouble of verses.Elohim and Ruach Elohim say, "Let US make mankind (ADAM) in OUR image." From these simple words, we have the image of Adam as both male and female. They then rest from their labors, allowing free will and the first choice to then proceed. We are then introduced to Yahweh and the Satan he made to be cunning. In Job, we see Satan as the accuser (Conscience) of man. In the OT, we see Yahweh as the adversary to evil, using Satan as the whispering mouth to his self-righteous ear.We then see the promise of salvation from death emerge with the NT. From the NT, we learn that we are born again in baptism (Flood of Noah) as the process to resurrect into a new person below. From this process, the Lamb (Adam) is refined. Adam's blood was first shed by Yahweh in the Garden to divide the image. This division allowed Yahweh to then deceive Eve (Weaker nature of Adam). The deception was a means to an end. By taking the naked creation of God and dividing it, Yahweh was then able to prompt mankind into a struggle against the temptation he provided.There were three outcomes stated by Satan by his own words. We must assume Yahweh had knowledge of what would happen.1) If you eat the fruit, you become like God. We were already like God, but naked. We had no knowledge of good and evil.2) If you eat, your eyes would be opened. This was true. They now had the perspective of division from God's image.3) If you eat, you will know good and evil. This, again, is true. We now know the difference and can choose.As we are told in the NT, Satan will go to an abyss prepared for him as an enemy of God. The dilemma is clear now. How can God stand justified if he condemns his created enemy? We can easily see Yahweh as different from God by purpose. Yahweh proclaimed himself God, but clearly has the will to take, divide and destroy. This is the description of Satan as the accuser and destroyer. The adversary of man has always been Yahweh and the influence of war and division.Again, the dilemma presents itself on a host of levels. Who prepared Jesus / Joshua in Zachariah 3? That was Yahweh. Who promised to send a savior for HIS people Israel? Yahweh. By his people, we see defiance against Elohim's Rainbow promise to bless all mankind in Genesis 9. We also see a contradiction to Adam hanging on the cross to pay the blood cost.Genesis 9 “Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed;
for in the image of God has God made mankind.Here is yet another Dilemma. Yahweh shed Adam's blood as the perfect lamb of sacrifice. As we find out with Abraham and Issac, the Son is not the one to be sacrificed. There is a scapegoat. The ram is caught in the thicket.I will propose that Yahweh was the scapegoat and was connected with Azazel of the Book of Enoch. We know that Christ was said to be the one that was (past), is (present) and is to come (future King). We are also told of the one that was (Past), is not (Present) and is to come (future). Yahweh is missing from the New Testament. As we find out in Revelation, Satan is cast from Heaven in the end times. Who is Satan? The Dilemma of God. Mankind was naked when presented with a cunning enemy. We are charged with overcoming the enemy. Jesus said to forgive enemies or we are not forgiven.Ultimately, the dilemma of God is gaining our forgiveness. Why? He allowed for the enemy so that we could be like Him. He had already overcome his own enemy. The pathway of creation is realizing how we can do the same.Apart from forgiving God, we are not ourselves forgiven. 1 Corinthians 1520 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.After the dust settles form the coming wars and fire of the enemies of God, how do we respond today? As continually divided creatures, how can we respond to an enemy we ourselves continue to embrace? God's dilemma becomes ours in a direct reflection, as in a mirror. The Answer1 Corinthians 134 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.Choose Love and then forgive enemies. Pathos removes the accuser and the need for the adversary. Love overcomes. Even the scapegoat could choose love by confessing the sin and turning. It boils down to our own choice of will.Choose to take the name that means giving, or choose to remain the thief on the cross that was left alone. There were two thieves on the cross around Jesus. One repented and the other refused. The only enemy is within us all. God only provided the means to an end.Choice. I now turn to the Bhagavad Gita for the next level of answers. Watch it in upcoming threads. After reading it from beginning to end yesterday, I now have opened eyes to the need for the Biblical adversary. From the pages of the Gita, the Lord in the process is revealed.One last Dilemma. If Christ is a deception, what was he trying to show God by asking for enemies to be forgiven? The same answer God is trying to show us. The twist to the story.

You search the scriptures thinking that IN them you have life YET you FAIL to come to Yahoshua that you may be delivered.

originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Is that your judgment? Am I your enemy?


"There is a principle which is a bar against all information which is proof against all argument and which cannot fail to keep man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is condemnation before investigation." ~ Edmond Spenser

I war not against flesh and blood. You aren't my enemy, the heresies you are peddling are, they are doctrines of demons. And it's not I that have failed to investigate, I've read Irenaeus.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Condemnation before investigation. Your tagline denies your use of it.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

The same idolatry we make of the Word is the same mistake Hindus make of their own scriptures. From within the scriptures themselves, one supreme being speaks. This is why I am outlining the Gita. The various demigods outlined by the Hindu faith lead the unprepared mind to the final destination. They define the term Lord as the mind of man finding God as the mirror of himself. I can't expect you to understand until you overcome the need for a Lord. You will eventually get where I am today. Until then, avoid my mistake along the way. Do not judge.

Upanishad Commentary

It is said that Moses had a written Torah and an unwritten Torah from mouth to ear. Listen to the Gita from the first link I provide on my latest thread. Youtube Gita English 1. From there, you can listen to the whole. If you get the meaning, you will then come back and understand my words regarding Yahweh and Satan. It may open your eyes to a wider world and simpler truth.

Nothing in the Bible is denied by this. You will merely see what you missed before.

a reply to: AlephBet

Consider His problem. God desires the creation of new life like himself for fellowship. Knowing the simple truth, he is face with a Dilemma.

From such a stand-point, existence at the Highest Awareness may indeed be both lonely and boring. At this point we are harkening to the Ayin, Ein Sof, Chaos, Formless Empty Deep (Tohu wa Bohu and Tehom), etc.

To stave off such loneliness, fellowship was sought by the act of creation. In order for anything to be different within the Nothing/Everything/One, a superficial and illusionary separation emanates from the Source. If there were no illusions of separation, there would be no experience beyond Unified Oneness. God creates from HimSelf, animates all of creation, and experiences all of it. God, through creation, experiences HimSelf relatively and subjectively.



Love, yes love! It is the answer to all.

Mentally, we must reason what love is and be mindful of the impact of its consequential use or withholding to our personal lives, the lives of those we interact with, and it's impact on the collective mankind and natural world.

Emotionally, we must give and share love and happiness in order to be in-tune to receive it.

When we see our Self,... God,... the Divine,... and Spirit within other people,... within the animals, trees, mountains, air, and dust,... Love, Compassion, and Altruism arise naturally in their most pure form.
(Not the propagation of creation worship versus creator worship, for although the Self, God, Divine, and Spirit is within all and All is One, It is even transcendent and beyond our comprehension and perceptions).

Mathew 25, verses 40 & 45

"Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me. Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

a reply to: Sahabi

I see that your eyes are open. I just read this quote:

Why should I (says he, again retracting himself on reflecting upon the true divine nature) 41 why should I entreat the sun, as I AM WHAT HE IS, that is, the Being who rules in the sun rules also in me.

All images of the divine are merely lessons showing us the essence that cannot be fully comprehended within ourselves. We can reflect on many images, but never fully realize the truth until we become what we seek. This is the point of seeing face to face with God. We are being perfected by the various modes of creation we occupy. My latest search will explore the Hindu scriptures. Check my newest threads.