Roswell for Dummies. :)

To Whom it May Concern:

I understand the allure of Roswell. She once had me in her mysterious arms. There I was all wide-eyed, breathless, intellectually tumescent, and stark ravenous for her to be revealed naked at last (disclosure.)

However, for me, no single UFO case is worth putting blinders on. I wanna know the truth even if turns out to be mundane after all.

Over time, it became apparent that Roswell as crashed ET craft was a slut full of holes and infected with various forms of disgusting deceit from both official sources as well as from crappy "Ufologists"/Authors---and all to the continued detriment of a topic near and dear to my heart.

Dear Roswell ET Supporter,

If you are a true seeker with a fair intellect and competent reading comprehension, then you, too, can set your own mind free and in the process do real ufology a favor.

It's gonna take a little work, but it will pay off.

Sincerely and with respect. We're waiting for you!

The Gut

How many here use to believe that Roswell might hold the smoking gun and then through continued research realized that Roswell WAS modern mythology?

How many believe that mythology has maybe even been fostered by factions within the intelligence community?

Which brings me to ATS and the AMA's featuring what many knowledgeable ufologists consider to be absolute snake oil and bunk. Uncool.

Both Springer and SO are very knowledgeable about Roswell and know better. If we could get SO drunk, he might could even tell us a really juicy tidbit about Roswell.

There's one very special key that will greatly facilitate this very important journey and keep you from spending any more money or wasting your time. Start at the beginning. Start with Brazel's own words and first report:

Wilcox called RAAF Major Jesse Marcel and a "man in plainclothes" accompanied Brazel back to the ranch where more pieces were picked up. "[We] spent a couple of hours Monday afternoon [July 7] looking for any more parts of the weather device", said Marcel. "We found a few more patches of tinfoil and rubber."

As described in the July 9, 1947 edition of the Roswell Daily Record,

The balloon which held it up, if that was how it worked, must have been 12 feet long, [Brazel] felt, measuring the distance by the size of the room in which he sat.

The rubber was smoky gray in color and scattered over an area about 200 yards in diameter. When the debris was gathered up, the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8 inches thick, while the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds.

There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine, and no sign of any propellers of any kind, although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil. There were no words to be found anywhere on the instrument, although there were letters on some of the parts.

Considerable Scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction. No strings or wires were to be found but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of attachment may have been used.en.wikipedia.org...

As my own clouds finally parted, it wasn't a letdown once the disappointment had dissipated and my distaste for the William Moore's, and the Schitz's, and the Careyiedaways, and the Kinky Friedman's et al had fermented into a firm resolve to always call that kind out.

The reason it wasn't a letdown is because I'm not wasting my own time spinning my wheels in those ancient, deceptive sands, and, besides, clearing that hurdle lead me into fascinating new directions.

Yeah, I know, I'm a smart-ass. It was a smart-ass that got me to re-evaluating Roswell with an open mind on the subject. I'm ever so grateful.

I really love ALL y'all. Just putting it out there heh!

I can sympathize. I too have been researching this one event for more years than I care to admit. And, I too, "went back to the start" by closely reviewing the only confirmed photos of debris, directly from the archives. The full, un-cropped photo. Where everyone was concentrating on the "letter", the foil, the look on Maj. Marcel's face, I looked into the areas that were cropped out in many of them. I saw this as "virgin territory", with little to no investigation. I am slowly getting to where you are as well. However, I still have a sneaking suspicion that there is a bit more than Mogul there, somewhere.

For details, see my ATS thread here, link located in my signature below.

it'd be a little easier to believe it was baloney if the govt hadn't come up with 100 percent true certified explanations that were

a) contradictory
b) did not match timelines with actual events
c) were subsequently shown to be otherwise false
d) contradicted by their own personnel


It's a fallen Alien craft!

uh no it's a weather balloon; honest!

um actually would you believe it was crash test dummies (flown three days after the crash...)

there was one; no two; no one crash sites!

erm... ok Gov -whatever you say...

a reply to: Krakatoa

Yeah, that's an excellent thread, Krakatoa. I S&F'ed it then. Thought I had participated to, but as I skimmed back through it I didn't see me. Y'all check it out if you missed it:

My New Roswell Debris Review

The journey does get darker before it gets light, though. For example most excellent researcher CardDown posted the following sad tale in the recent thread New Area 51 alien autopsy image is ‘smoking gun’, researcher claims

In preparation for seeing Tom Carey at a local UFO conference in 2011, I listened to a few podcasts where he was interviewed. Seeing him talk in person was much worse. Carey seemed to be a name-dropper that was far more interested in film and TV deals than research. Most appalling to me, he said he was not interested in researching anything but Roswell.

I take that back, the most appalling part was when Carey described how he and Schmitt kept badgering Walter Haut to talk about seeing alien bodies. At that time, I didn't know about how they'd typed up a "deathbed confession" for the old man to sign.

a reply to: The GUT

GUT, I'm glad to see you posting. I haven't read much from you lately. But I have some concerns about your posts lately, at least from a year or so ago to now. They just don't sound like you from before. I know, my paranoid brain at work here, right? I don't know, something about your style has changed and I feel like one of those "Paul is dead" people (which I was back in the '70s). I'm just worried that someone has taken your place on here because you were too relevant maybe. I don't know, something just seems different. You seem to have taken some different views on things and also I just feel that your earlier posts were deeper and more meaningful than what I have seen since. Maybe I've just drank too much tonight, that's a distinct possibility, and maybe you've just gone through some life changes. And I guess it's a stupid question anyway, because if somebody took your place they wouldn't admit it, would they?

a reply to: wtbengineer

I got sober again and it has, maybe then, affected my depth in a negative way? I could buy that. Then I'd have a good excuse haha.

Lub ya, WTB, you know that. I know you lub me too and I appreciate it. Message me, I do want your take on the new me. Er, NOT the "new" me as in a replacement by the Aviary or the military-occult-complex or sumpin'!!!

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: wtbengineer

Message me, I do want your take on the new me. Er, NOT the "new" me as in a replacement by the Aviary or the military-occult-complex or sumpin'!!!

hmmm

that's exactly what a replacement from the Aviary or the military-occult-complex would say...

a reply to: The GUT

The forensics on the telegram he held in the photos clinched it for me...

The details will never be revealed but the gist is ...

Something E.T. was recovered..

I'll just repeat what I asked Stanton Friedman in the AMA thread which went unanswered. You have to approach this from the very beginning and get over the first hurdle of this material found before continuing on to the stories told.

Strictly speaking on the construction and how this spacecraft was built as described by Jesse Marcel and Mac Brazel:
-Small lightweight beams.
-Foil-like material.
-Pieces no more than 3 or 4 feet in length.

Compared to RAWIN type targets of the 40's:
-Small lightweight beams.
-Foil-like material.
-RAWIN targets were generally no more than 4 feet.

Now, given those facts, wouldn't it be an astronomical coincidence that a spacecraft from another world, piloted by alien beings crash and:
A) Does so in the same general area where other RAWIN targets have crashed.
B) Is constructed exactly as our Earthly RAWIN targets of the 40's.

If parts of a B-2 bomber from 2014 crashed in 1947 Roswell, the construction of that plane wouldn't be comparable to anything in 1947. And that's with a human built aircraft only 67 years in our own future. Every single piece of crash debris mentioned in Roswell is relatable to RAWIN type of construction of that era.

A story that snowballed after Friedman interviewed Jesse Marcel in 1978.

originally posted by: sweord

hmmm

that's exactly what a replacement from the Aviary or the military-occult-complex would say...

Starred.

I'd be the LAST person to doubt such a deed. Socks & Birds. Military-Occult-Penguins and such. I do believe they exist here. Heck, I KNOW a couple of the latter are here. The socks part is an educated deduction.


This your brains on birds



www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

Pretty obvious why he didn't answer it appears. I pretty much ignored that thread because I knew it would be a shellac. Excellent confirmation of that and great question you poised to Stanton. Thank you for asking it.

I was just watching a program on it now, I dont where I stand on ET visiting our planet, whilst I accept there are other life forms on other planets which may have technology to visit earth, deep down I dont beleive they have and I dont beleive UFOs are an Alien Craft or some kind of other phenomenen.

However, I really want them to be and thats why my Yin and Yang really hurts my brain, as a none beleiver in Religion, ive got perhaps 30 years until i am 70 and dont think I will get there, I would like a life changing event.

On Roswell, if it were a Balloon and RAWIN, why isnt all the evidence produced now? Surely RAWIN type technology is no longer classified, so roll out the boxes of the crashed Balloon and RAWIN? What they dont have any left?

Where was the Balloon? Hot Air balloons have been around for decades, helium balloons not so, but surely a number of people who been to the crash site would see a rubbery balloon or some sort of evidence of tethering like a cable which was recognisable.

Also, how would a Balloon crash? Surely it would be blown miles across the desert bouncing and breaking as it went, debris would be scattered miles and not really contained in a local area. Balsa wood - who would not recognise Balsa wood if they saw it, then claim it was unbreakable even though it layed around them broken?

Whilst I cannot comprehend it being a UFO, I also do not understand the response of the military even today when they could easily release the wreckage.

a reply to: TheCrowMan

At this point, I second krakatoa's sentiment that I'm not all-aboard on Mogul but maybe there was something, say, "ugly" or inconvenient about whatever mil-tech it actually was?

originally posted by: coastlinekid
a reply to: The GUT

The forensics on the telegram he held in the photos clinched it for me...

The details will never be revealed but the gist is ...

Something E.T. was recovered..

And I bet if you played your own devil's advocate on that issue you'd convince yourself otherwise on the validity of those forensics. Not to mention why some such would not be on that cable in the first place. It just doesn't compute.

a reply to: The GUT

The whole thing holds no appeal for me. All ifs, buts and la la la la. It's become the friendly, stupid face of *aliens* in the media and helps a few small businesses make some money each year (fair enough). It's also a lightning rod for assholes, narcissists and folk who inject themselves into historical incidents.

There are some bright guys who've devoted their lives to 'uncovering' Roswell 'truth' and I can't help feel they've wasted their time. Sure, filling in the historical gaps is no bad thing; chasing crash-landing aliens probably is a waste of time.

Here's an accurate rendition of the Roswell mythology >>

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
A story that snowballed after Friedman interviewed Jesse Marcel in 1978.

My first clue there was a problem with Marcel's story was when he said the "indestructible" foil was found in many small pieces all over the debris field. Somehow the idea of it being indestructible yet being in many small pieces posed a big problem for my logic.

What I found more surprising however is that more people didn't see the problem with that claim, and somehow inferred the foil has some magical properties and therefore must be alien. Even the properties didn't sound that amazing, Marcel said he hit it with a sledgehammer and nothing happened to it. He tried to burn it and nothing happened to it. I also hit a piece of foil with a sledgehammer and tried to burn it and nothing significant happened to it too. I don't know what he expected to happen.

That said I never got the sense that Marcel was intentionally lying, he just seemed to have cognitive issues which prevented him from recognizing the internal inconsistencies with his own story, and he's not the only one.

Well brought up The Gut.
I believe the late 1970s interviews with Marcell, he was Adamant that the material shown in the famous photo, was NOT the material he had picked up....hence the rather confused look on his face.
What intrigues me, is that the "Debris Field" is not the important crash, but the other crash of the disc craft a few miles away in the aeroe, little hill, escarpment whatever, that eyewitnesses (ie the Professor and geology students, the family of father, uncle, old brother and little brother) were suppose to have seen the 3 little Aliens, 2 laying down, one alive. Where these people were threatened by the military with death, if they talk about what they saw etc.

The other modern mystery is/was the constant flip flop from the Air force with what actually happened....oh its a weather balloon, no it not now, its Project Mogul, no its not now its some dummies we dropped out of a plane etc etc.
Certainly does'nt evoke any trust in what they claim.

I tend to like the older information around the place.
One good one is the interview with Donald Keyhoe in the late 70s, who talks about why they wont admit contact...yes the obvious "panic", and how they have buried it so long, that it would be too much of an embarrassment for the Govt etc...who to blame etc, how would the public handle the knowledge of, the crashing of air force jets when engaging the craft etc......

A copy of the interview is as follows...I claim nothing of its validity, other than its claims, so dont blame me, but it is a good read....touches on Roswell too, when it first blew up in the late 70s.
www.ufoevidence.org...

See that's what u get when u misplace the hat of tinfoil !

What? I fear the Gut has turned to the Dark Side.

Well not really. Years ago back in the 1980s and 1990s in my more innocent days, this all seemed exciting and some of the UFO lore was very believable. The mainstream media paid the usual jokey approach to the UFO topic. Meanwhile the "UFO media" was generally controlled by those wanting to promote the conspiracy, new age religion, aliens are here. Those sort of angles on the subject.

But then I had to ask why would aliens land in a field and pass their great knowledge on to seemingly random, very ordinary people? How come nearly every single photo of a UFO from the pre-digital age looks too grainy to make out exactly what it is or looks fake. Why were aliens once humanoids from the Solar System and then became little grey guys from further away once our science advanced?

Now in these days of the information superhighway it seems that those classic pillars of Ufology are wobbly and in some cases crumbling. Roswell, Rendlesham, Travis Walton, Kecksburg, The Hills Abduction, Socorro and more have all been subject to heavy sceptical analysis down the years. With a global communication and information resource it is now no longer the case of having only a single TV report, newspaper clip, or book to source information from. We can, if we choose, weigh up both sides of the equation. Although many choose their own belief and filter out that which doesn't fit it. Many authors even twist the facts to satisfy their audience to sell books, DVDs etc. So I have always been wary of many stories even though I still think maybe one day something will turn up trumps for us. Perhaps we'll find an alien artifact in the solar system or even here on earth.

My deep down suspicion is that much of what goes on (especially Stateside) in the world of UFOs is very much linked into the activities of the Miltary Industrial Complex.

a reply to: The GUT

Over time, it became apparent that Roswell as crashed ET craft was a slut full of holes and infected with various forms of disgusting deceit

This is the first time Roswell has made sense to me. ...it's like a slut...I think that works.

I can recall dating a girl like that once. protection is key.

So Project Mogul would be the protection?