The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light

a reply to: Necrose

Whenever religion comes into play, conflict arises. It's pretty evident that it's made to give people an excuse not to tear down their spiritual walls and never adapt with change. Religion is not a tool for peace, nor will it ever be.

Besides, if God says "Thou shalt not worship false idols or prophets," why is that people follow a Bible so seriously when in fact, it was written by a man, not by God himself? It's illogical.

a reply to: Necrose

You're not alone my friend...

I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ himself would not be welcome in most churches.

I experienced the same thing once when I was invited to visit a Baptist church.

I never felt so uncomfortable in all my life, I mean it felt awful the whole time I was in there.

The "church" has been infiltrated which is WHY it bares absolutely NO resemblance to the early Church.

I am convinced that many Fundamental Baptist churches are NOW pastored by Jesuits and Opus Dei agents. Many deacons and Sunday School teachers are now inside the Baptist movement teaching doctrines of Rome. LINK

...the goal is to infiltrate it with their compromising philosophies and attempt to destroy the Church from within."

"What if there were people within the various Churches of God who covertly were guiding the members to slowly accept new ideas which are alien to the true faith and who were dedicated to destroying that faith at all costs?" JESUIT-JEDI MINDTRICKS

originally posted by: DISRAELI
Perhaps it is time to get back to the subject of the thread, following normal Abovetopsecret practice;
That is, free and open discussion confined to the thread topic, as defined by the title and the opening post.

Except you disregard any reply that isn't "I agree with you 100%." Even .01% disagreement is too much for you to handle.

Agree with OP 99.99%, and you're automatically off-topic and therefore going to be ignored, just because the .01 doesn't fit in his dogma tighter than speedos.

a reply to: DISRAELI

One of the best-known portions of Handel’s Messiah is the aria based on “The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light” (Isaiah ch9 v2), immediately followed by “For unto us a child is born”.
And of course we associate those words with Christmas.

That's because Christmas time, the Winter Solstice, is the darkest, coldest, most dangerous time for life of the year.

But the longest, darkest night of the year gives us the guarantee of the the light, as the Winter Solstice promises better days are ahead. Soon, the days will grow longer and warmer. From here on out, the crops will grow tall and the hounds will chase bunnies and children will find eggs.

Soon, we'll find our fattest finest lamb for slaughter and prepare a feast to celebrate the salvation from the harsh, cruel winter that the SUN won for us in its inevitable victory over the darkness.

So the promise that “the light will shine” should really be taken with the words that follow.
In other words, the promise is not restricted to the land of Galilee, but belongs to God’s people as a whole.

Of course! The Sun shines on us all!

"Unto us a child is born", that child is the SUN!

I don't really know what does the OP expect from us.
How could we possibly elaborate or reply to this thread?
If he asks for nearly 100% agreement with what he is stating, then the point of replying is none. There were no questions proposed in the original post I guess so we are finished.

Move on guys, next thread.

a reply to: windword
However, there is nothing in the Isaiah text, which is the original version of the prophecy, to associate the event with any particular time of year, let alone the solstice.
The Matthew birth story does not specify the time of solstice or any date, as non-Christians are quick to point out when arguing against the date of Christmas.
Nor does his application of "people in darkness" specify any time of year.
Both Isaiah and Matthew are understanding the "darkness" as metaphorical.
Any psychological associations with the time of year have to have come later.

In fact I would have thought that the progress of associations was the other way round; the church first identified "a child is born" with Christ, and the association of this verse with "the people that walked in darkness" followed necessarily from the organic connection between them in Isaiah ch9.

a reply to: DISRAELI

The association of light to the sun, and darkness to no sun, certainly came before Isaiah's allegorical example of "people who walk in darkness" and certainly predates any analogy to Jesus being "The Light". And, certainly people have been celebrating enlightenment and enlightened teachers and leaders since time immemorial.

But, people have been celebrating the return of the sun, and therefore, "the light" ever since the time they figure the seasons out. And, that is why Christmas is celebrated at the same time that the rest of world, for millennium, was celebrating the return of the Sun, during the Winter Solstice.

In fact I would have thought that the progress of associations was the other way round; the church first identified "a child is born" with Christ, and the association of this verse with "the people that walked in darkness" followed necessarily from the organic connection between them in Isaiah ch9.

The "Church"?

All I can say to that is, the timing of Isaiah coincides with the timing of the worship of the "child" that was called the "light of world" who was born of the "Great Virgin Isis", Horus, a solar deity.

Peace
On Earth
Merry Christmas

Empty but heartfelt words and wishes.

a reply to: Necrose

Necrose,

Let me see if I can shed any light to some of your questions...

How would the christian God reach me and say: "Hey Richard, it's me, I am somewhere up there hidden in the clouds watching all your steps, knowing anything I could possibly know and I urge you to trust me and believe in me so you can live very happily afterlife in my paradise with your fellows believers." ?
First good name, my name is Richard as well. Let's say you are alone in the wilderness obvious to God and or God's existence. God would reveal himself to you just like everyone else in existence through, signs, angels, direct visitation by light, manifestation like the burning brush or in flesh like Jesus,dream, and visions. You would then receive wisdom, knowledge, new life,new meaning and a willingness that always yearns for more total happiness of God in his will toward's you. Would it not be easy to see now if that happened to you how you would be eager for the Lord now.

I guess he wouldn't have reached me out and I wouldn't have known about him. Yet I would probably live a happy life without any struggles. (within the bounds of primitive people's lives)
The same about Eskimos. They don't know and they don't need to know. So why do we, right here in the EU (or the US) ? Why us?
I think I can answer both these questions at the same time. First God is all around us wither we realize it or not. God yearns for us to search for him and Jesus Christ is truly the way to the most high. The father honors the son and those who honor the son are honored by the father. The main reason the world including myself struggle so hard for the truth is because of the beginning, when Adam and Eve were deceived and ate of the forbidden fruit humanity severed its connection with God which is pure through and through and is also why they instantly felt shame and hid themselves. Remember the phrase the grass isn't always greener on the other side. This created the fall of man which was multidimensional of itself, i.e. humanity and the entire planet fell to lower vibrations(frequencies) which severed the bridge from the heavens and the earth. Thus was why before the fall God could walk among Adam notice after the fall God never shows him-fully in the same way again...Coincidence??Hmm. The fall also took away the garden of Eden from earth its still here but on the other side of the veil and is why it is still guarded by angels with flaming swords to this day. Also the fall brought changes to the earth, lifespans grew shorter, poisons and thorns are introduced, birth pains for women and now without God connection we will become dust as we were before Jesus if we do not seek and know him before we pass. As followers of Christ we know we have to spread the good news it is also key to the end times and start of the iron and clay kingdom and for the rise of the anti-christ. Without knowledge we are dead in sin. God desires all flesh to be saved, it is because of our fall and free will of good and evil that makes everything so hard. That is why the devil is destined to hell, you can't mess with God's favorite and most treasured creation us humans and not think God wouldn't pimp slap you satan did you, satan you stinky vile whore who has deceived many may you rot in hell forever with boils and maggots and the anti-christ and false prophet to keep you company you stanky scum. Sorry to go on a little rant but I truly hate the devil and all his minions and unlike most Christians I I'am not afraid to stand up and look forward to the day when the real fight starts. I will have no mercy to to devils minions, hybrids, fallen angels, and anyone who takes the mark. I understand the bible says that those that live by the sword will die by the sword and I can't have it any other way. I'll be damned if I go out in a be heading I rather kill as many haters as possible before I pass so it is less burden for the next Christian warrior. Those who know me and do not love their lives even unto death in my name shall surely receive their crown and place by Jesus side. Look at the killing of the children around the world especially with ISIS currently this is of the devil. Dot God not say protect the little ones. We are all one in the eyes of the Lord. Ever single soul is a shatter of his divine creation, this is why he wants all saved back at the connection pre fall as a whole this is the wedding of the Lamb. Example you have a coin collection all the morgan silver dollars of every year as a whole it is your greatest collection and treasure this is pre fall. Now you fell on hard times and were tricked into pawning some of your collection for money for bills. Now your collection is incomplete you now have a hole in the part of your life and desire to regain what you have lost this is post fall. After many moons and hard determination you finally find your missing collection pieces and are made whole again and a peace now resides inside knowing you have done well faithful servant this is blessing of God and Jesus, the wedding of lamb and bringing the people back unto God way and walk. And now humanity can pick up were we left of before the devil deceived us all. We are very special us humans why do you think the devil and 1/3 of all the angels rebelled against God. Jealous and envy and oh I almost forgot they also were dying to have sex with human women and corrupt our DNA so to avert Jesus Christ from being born, if no pure human existed then no Christ could be born to be slain for our sins this is why the flood happened and destroyed all life almost etc. This is why everyone even the Eskimo's deserve to know about God and Jesus it's our God given right lol.... Hope this helps.

originally posted by: Necrose
a reply to: DISRAELI

I know, I am always hoping that one day I will stumble upon a believer that will answer those "questions" or elaborate/argue through those paradoxes and stuff.
That day hasn't come yet though and I do not mean to de-rail the thread so I won't post any further.

Because most who know logic won't touch it, the argument itself is a red herring.

a reply to: BlessedLore

hey, thanks for your reply, but I am not gonna argue any longer
peace

Oh i believe in God, Just not Jesus. Not my cup of Tea.

This post was nice until the OP tried combining Old Testament with New Testament.

You know that Yahweh is not Jesus Right? And has Zero Connection. The Jews had to make a name just to try to convert Christian into Jews because it lol.

Anyways Happy Holidays.

a reply to: AnuTyr
Combining the Old Testament with the New Testament is what the Christian faith does. Always has done.
In the case of these verses, Matthew's Gospel made the connection first, as I pointed out.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Hmmm

I was under the impression that the earliest copies of the Gospel According to Matthew showed nothing more than a simple list of sayings, and that the narrative of Matthew was added later and credited as mostly being copied from the Gospel According to Mark, which also has evidence of interpolation.

a reply to: windword
You allude to the "two document hypothesis", which I certainly find very appealing.
That is, the theory that Matthew and Luke were largely written by combining the narrative of Mark with material from a collection of "sayings" which has been nicknamed "Q".
(This "list of sayings", incidentally, has never been found in any known copy. It is something which has been deduced, by extracting Mark's narrative from Matthew and Luke and comparing what's left.)

However, that doesn't really affect my answer to AnuTyr.
Matthew's Gospel is the only one that quotes these verses from Isaiah ch9, so the statement "in the case of these verses, Matthew's Gospel made the connection first" remains valid.
In any case, my point was that the connection goes back to the earliest days of the church and did not begin with me.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: windword
However, there is nothing in the Isaiah text, which is the original version of the prophecy, to associate the event with any particular time of year, let alone the solstice.
The Matthew birth story does not specify the time of solstice or any date, as non-Christians are quick to point out when arguing against the date of Christmas.
Nor does his application of "people in darkness" specify any time of year.
Both Isaiah and Matthew are understanding the "darkness" as metaphorical.
Any psychological associations with the time of year have to have come later.

In fact I would have thought that the progress of associations was the other way round; the church first identified "a child is born" with Christ, and the association of this verse with "the people that walked in darkness" followed necessarily from the organic connection between them in Isaiah ch9.

I feel that Isaias is the prophet who came to acquaint us with Christ's suffering and death rather than His birth. Isaias outlines the fulfillment in Jesus in being the Man of Sorrows.

Good work in this thread, my admiration for your work grows.

originally posted by: AnuTyr
Oh i believe in God, Just not Jesus. Not my cup of Tea.

This post was nice until the OP tried combining Old Testament with New Testament.

You know that Yahweh is not Jesus Right? And has Zero Connection. The Jews had to make a name just to try to convert Christian into Jews because it lol.

No connection? Reallllly?

Did Jesus not exclaim to the Pharisees, 'Before Abraham was, I Am'. He repeated what He said on Mt. Sinai.

They asked 'Are you Jesus of Nazareth?' He said to them 'I Am' and they fell to the ground, because by saying 'I Am' He said YHWH.

And let me let you in on a little secret, read my signature first. When they came to Jesus to dispute with Him the Law and ask Him according to the commandments what the judgement should be on the woman, He was writing in the sand. This was the only occurrence in the gospel that mentioned Jesus writing. What did this mean? That it was He Who wrote the commandments, and it is for Him to administer judgement as the Sovereign Lord.

Your words are based on complete lies.

a reply to: Necrose

No problem,
No argue, just trying to help is all good luck in your journey and God bless regardless.

a reply to: backcase

Not to mention YHWH = "Behold the Hand, behold the Nail"






(You will have to forgive the maker of the video, he/she forgot Hebrew reads right to left)

a reply to: Necrose

Perhaps the answer is simple. Omnipotence also includes the ability to limit ones power.

In most standard understandings of God, he exists outside of time. I see no reason why he couldn't create such a rock in one moment of time, but would be able to lift it in the next. What good is Omnipotence if one does not also have the power to control it?

I am a "God-believer" and would be willing to answer your questions. Quite a bit off topic from the thread though and most Christians would consider me a heretic. At least that's what they say..

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: backcase

Not to mention YHWH = "Behold the Hand, behold the Nail"

(You will have to forgive the maker of the video, he/she forgot Hebrew reads right to left)

When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. One gets the impression that this YHVH must really be a klutz, driving nails through is own hands while trying to build something. That's when it seems wise to contract the job out.