Russia heading into economic disaster

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Except I was. I'm not sure who you think you are or why you think anyone has to justify themselves to you but you're welcome to try to piss in someone else's cheerios, you missed mine by miles.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: jaffo
Gee, maybe those darned evil Western sanctions would go away if Putin stopped acting like he was the villain in a James Bond movie. DO any of you even care about how your hero Vladimir Putin staged bomb attacks in hi own Country to get or hold office? And please, don't respond with any 9/11 Truther nonsense. Putin is a genuinely evil man and HE is the reason Russia is having problems right now both at home and abroad...

Someone's been reading 'Blowing up Russia' I see! Good book and worth the time. Of course the ending turned me off tea forever...

But why take fiction into a serious discussion beats me...?

I didn't find 'Blowing up Russia' to be a work of fiction at all. I sure couldn't track down all the quoted sources and confirm the dates and events, but the story comes across as credible and even likely. An absolute ton of 'evidence' is provided in the book.

The fact the author was killed by radioactive material that could have only been gathered via state intervention speaks volumes. While it could have been his work supporting MI6 against the Russian mafia I suspect his book didn't help his survival chances.

a reply to: Kali74

I haven`t seen one post of you doing that, and I have read all the posts in the Ukraine threads of everyone except from 3 which I have skipped occasionally (and you weren`t one of them).

a reply to: noeltrotsky

I didn't find 'Blowing up Russia' to be a work of fiction at all. I sure couldn't track down all the quoted sources and confirm the dates and events, but the story comes across as credible and even likely.

...and there`s your problem, people tend to believe things too easily when things sound plausible while the exact opposite might be true.

You know how many people have been wrongly sentenced in the same way, I bet if you would read the same type of book, but the other way around your opinion would switch right away...I have followed murder cases in which you would point towards certain suspects for sure, yet I and about everyone else couldn`t be more wrong.

You seem one who has a working enough brain to know how these things work.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Sure...

And If anyone still wondered how the pawns on the chessboard stand...

...as expected, China knows what`s at stake and is going to bailout Russia.

China Prepares To Bailout Russia

Source

Theres one thing i don't understand: Both the oil price and the rouble declined roughly by 50%, so the russians get only half the dollars for their oil, but these dollars are worth roughly as many roubles as before. So shouldn't these two effects cancel each other out from russias point of view, beeing dependent mostly on oil exports for their economy?

a reply to: TinfoilTP

Russia itself is collapsing from oil prices and debt but it won't have much effect on world markets.

With the currency going down 50% along with the oil price your average russian on the streets won't feel much.

"Debt" Well your argument has no legs because most russians have very little personal debt else the 10-17% interest rate would had wipped them out years ago and as a nation Russia has very little foriegn debt.

collapsing oil prices also hits the USA who has about $18tr in debt and a credits defaults swap (CDS) bomb that is ticking plus the USA is running the risk of more debt by spending money to short the rubble which could go bang to add to the $18tr debt.

The next time paper gold is dumped on the Comex our Russian freinds should buy up the contracts and demand delivery and then we will see who is swimming without any trunks on because we all know that the physical gold in the US has gone.

a reply to: HUMBLEONE

What does that matter? Who in their right mind would take the gamble? Forget that. No one is in their right mind on this sh$thole planet... this joint is the insane asylum of the Galaxy.

Was North Korea not to have a few dozen nukes then the USA would had attacked it 20 years ago so thinking you can take out Russia who has 20,000 nukes is not going to work and thats without thinking about China.

The real danger is Israel and its Samson Plan were they will bomb the west if we let them fall and then release biological weapons just to make sure.

Facts are you don't build bombs that are never going to be used and the USA did bomb Japan twice before they becamae an occupation force, sorry, best friends and an attack on Japan is an attack on us.

originally posted by: HUMBLEONE
Great! Lets back the Bear into a corner an poke him with a sharp stick. Jeez what da yah thinks gonna happen? MORONS!

In 1998 the IMF (All of us) bailed out a Post-Soviet Russia to help bring them into the fold of nations. Russia then gorged itself on oil-export revenue and built the 3rd largest cash reserves on the planet. What didn't they do? They didn't invest in their own infrastructure or do anything to diversify their economy. They left all of their eggs in the energy export basket.

What DID they do with all the new found wealth? They allowed a very select few to gorge on it, taking that imported revenue and transferring it into relatively few private hands.

Nationalist fervour and rose-coloured-glass views of former glory clouded their vision and they went on a little imperialist jag. The last two world wars began in Eastern Europe and the world was not about to let it happen again. They didn't invade, they didn't attack. They imposed economic sanctions. The slow road. The "think about what you are doing" road.

...Then oil prices collapsed. And because Russia is dependent almost solely on those resource dollars, the Table with one leg that is the Russian economy has gotten wobbly fast with the slightest of shaking.

"We" did not do this to Russia, Putin did this to Russia.

Even if you take the position that Russian extra-territorial claims should have been ignored, the drop in oil prices would have dragged them to the brink anyway. It just may have taken a few more months.

The "bear" backed itself into the corner, it didn't need any help from anyone.

And we will probably bail them out again in the not-to-distant future.

Fromg what I have heard, is that Saudi Arabia is trying to punish Russia because of Iran. Saudi Arabia has said that they will bring down the cost off oil to $40 a barrel. But the U.S. is just the secound banana, and Saudi Arabia is trying to destroy the U.S. fraking industry, and inturn destroy Houston Tx.
All this to me is going to go towards one situation, it will be war, because, oil then will rise back up. To me, that is what Russia may do, if their economy tanks all the way.

a reply to: VirusGuard

"Debt" Well your argument has no legs because most russians have very little personal debt else the 10-17% interest rate would had wipped them out years ago and as a nation Russia has very little foriegn debt.

I was living in this happy little fantasy where the global recession was ending and all the worlds nations were taking turns inflating their economies "New Deal" style.

This latest rate hike by Russia to 17% combined with the extinction of their oil export spooked me.
Since the US national debt is about 90 times that of Russia it got me wondering if there is a near term policy change on the table for the US?
The Euro zone has been slipping back towards recession but QE seems to be the order of the day there.

I'm really not qualified to weigh in and predict, my math skills are so lacking I couldn't even calculate the value of big G.
For all I know world economics could work like Indiegogo.

a reply to: Leonidas

Good post

Then oil prices collapsed. And because Russia is dependent almost solely on those resource dollars, the Table with one leg that is the Russian economy has gotten wobbly fast with the slightest of shaking.

It is not easy to get the truth on this one and the gas/oil production numbers quoted by various sources seem to range from 20-70% of GDP

"slightest of shaking" Well it might be that the USA is shorting the currency to a massive degree and don't even care if they end up on the down side of the gamble so long as they take a bite out of Russia.

"We" did not do this to Russia, Putin did this to Russia.

Yes and so did Cuba and Iran and everyone else that upsets the USA but Putin did not pay $5bn to Nazi's in the Ukraine to use force to remove the elected leader so i cannot agree here.

the drop in oil prices would have dragged them to the brink anyway. It just may have taken a few more months.

Well we would need to know more about the 20-70% here and also if and by how much the USA is trying to short the currency before we could realy say i thinks but China i am sure will help its freind and could call in the $2tr that the USA owes it to pay for it.

Make no mistake the USA is not in good shape and is relying on tricks, bluffs and lies.

Is it true that 30% of 40 years olds in the USA are having to live with mum & dad to make ends meet

originally posted by: Leonidas
They didn't invest in their own infrastructure or do anything to diversify their economy...They allowed a very select few to gorge on it, taking that imported revenue and transferring it into relatively few private hands.

Sounds like they took a few pages out of the US playbook there.

a reply to: VirusGuard

Yes and so did Cuba and Iran and everyone else that upsets the USA but Putin did not pay $5bn to Nazi's in the Ukraine to use force to remove the elected leader so i cannot agree here.

Neither did the United States, but judging by Yanukovych's wealth, Putin was sure paying that Nazi something.

a reply to: Thebel
Ha! Most of that stuff is just fluffer kind of like the price on oil, even in the us they make it up as they go and as far as they can stretch it, so ya that dollar to oil ratio there all playing on the TV, well its were it needs to be to keep profits going, its called economic warfare, and like regular warfare its based on deception.

And when the pasted on the screen economic falls, the real economics will come to the forefront, ie the war economy. It would not surprise me if they did not let all this drop or set it all so they can turn Russian into a full fledged war based economy, they definitely have all the resources and the manpower and even the backing, all they need is the excuse, in fact they would grow and operate much better even with NATO set against them if they went full on war economy, after all it worked for the US didn't it, and china is probably in the loop somewhere as well. So ya! its bound to get flaky from here on in, not like it wasn't flaky before.

And also Russia is sitting on the last and probably the biggest resource rich landmass in the world, ie syberia, with parts of it still in the interests of the Chinese. That is to say there not going to collapse anytime soon if they hold on to it because magic makebelive numbers on the screen do not by themself mean anything, and this is all likely just to drive up tensions between then and nations and the interests involved in all those big bucks. So who knows if anything at all will come out of this posturing in the long run, but its likely that it could.

Should be interesting, maybe we will actually get an actual war this time around...Though funny things about actual wars, they more often then not, have very unpredictable outcomes, and often enough for the ones who most think they can predict it. And another thing is for sure, somebody is going to have to fight it, and its not going to be the tycoons or there kids.

What do I think if this whole thing escalates in the coming years?

This.

a reply to: DJW001

And The West didn`t of course ?

Yanukovych’s government sold 5 provinces of Ukraine to the Anglo-Dutch company, Shell, and US Chevron for 50 years, with rights for renewal at their discretion.

Source

The onslaught against Russia should be a warning, and indeed a wake up call, to all of us over the power of the bankers.
Russia is being pounded through market manipulations and the schemes of the banksers that run them, to utterly destroy their financial base.

It's also another example of the dangers of globalisation, when it gives foreign entities the power to destroy you and control your currency and assets.

The bankers have allegiance to nothing, except themselves and the almighty profit or, more importantly, the debt, through which they control things on a global scale. Does anyone really think the bankers wouldn't do the same to any of us if we voted in a leader not selected by them?

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: DJW001

And The West didn`t of course ?

Yanukovych’s government sold 5 provinces of Ukraine to the Anglo-Dutch company, Shell, and US Chevron for 50 years, with rights for renewal at their discretion.

Source

That is an outright lie. Ukraine did not sell any provinces to Shell and Chevron, they sold mineral rights. Those corporations did not appoint governors, pass laws or tax the citizens the way Russia does in Crimea. Your article is also extremely biased; it points to the environmental dangers posed by fracking without weighing them against the economic advantages. In the United States, many areas vote to allowing fracking because it creates jobs and brings money to the region. Why shouldn't Ukraine have the right to make that decision for themselves, rather than have it forced upon them, as Russia is certainly planning to do in Crimea?

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: DJW001

And The West didn`t of course ?

Yanukovych’s government sold 5 provinces of Ukraine to the Anglo-Dutch company, Shell, and US Chevron for 50 years, with rights for renewal at their discretion.

Source

That is an outright lie. Ukraine did not sell any provinces to Shell and Chevron, they sold mineral rights. Those corporations did not appoint governors, pass laws or tax the citizens the way Russia does in Crimea. Your article is also extremely biased; it points to the environmental dangers posed by fracking without weighing them against the economic advantages. In the United States, many areas vote to allowing fracking because it creates jobs and brings money to the region. Why shouldn't Ukraine have the right to make that decision for themselves, rather than have it forced upon them, as Russia is certainly planning to do in Crimea?