Life Found at 2,400m Bellow Earth's surface and implications for Life on Mars

Now do we or other vertibrates have immunity to these microbes or are they possibly introducing new microbes into our ecosystem that could damage it by this drilling process. I'm sure they are just dumping the drilling stuff into the ocean.

originally posted by: rickymouse
Now do we or other vertibrates have immunity to these microbes or are they possibly introducing new microbes into our ecosystem that could damage it by this drilling process. I'm sure they are just dumping the drilling stuff into the ocean.

A great many Sci-Fi movies start this way...

originally posted by: lonesomerimbaud
I am still not convinced by what NASA are saying as definitive proof that water existed on Mars. We are still in the days of theory about all that. If they found definitive proof then of course I would believe it then.

Here's proof of water ice found about six years ago by the Phoenix Lander:
NASA Phoenix Mars Lander Confirms Frozen Water

And another from the Phoenix lander about that time, including the results of sample-testing:
NASA Spacecraft Confirms Martian Water, Mission Extended

Here's a more recent finding (2013) from the Curiosity Rover:
Water discovered in Martian soil

The gases that came off included oxygen and chlorine as well as water vapor. Based on the ratio of isotopes within, scientists believe this water is coming from the recent Martian atmosphere.

"If you take about a cubic foot of dirt with the amount of water that we found and heated it up, you could get a couple of pints of water out of that," said Laurie Leshin, dean of science at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in New York, who led this study. "It was kind of exciting to me to see that, wow, it would be a significant amount."

Water-ice clouds:
Mars Water-Ice Clouds Are Key To Odd Thermal Rhythm

Here's is visual proof of past flowing water. You may say it's only evidence (not proof), but the evidence seems overwhelming, especially considering the other evidence of past flowing water, and the proof found by the Phoenix and Curiosity soil lander that water ice still exists:
Mars Curiosity Rover Finds Proof of Flowing Water—A First

originally posted by: lonesomerimbaud
The reason I did not believe that comets brought water to the earth is that the amount of ice it would take to arrive here to make the 70% ocean volume we have on earth would mean comets of huge proportion on a continual basis. Such impacts would have created utter devastation. Also, that how come they stopped happening? Why would comets crash into us that often and just stop when we had 70% water volume?

The Earth is only 2% water by volume. That 70% figure is only based on how much of the surface area is covered with water. The surface (and the rivers, lakes, seas, and oceans) make up only a very very thin shell around the Earth.

The theory that says the water was brought here by comets says that this happened very early in the development of a young Earth -- during a period known as the "Late Heavy Bombardment", which is thought to be a time about 4 billion years ago that the Earth was heavily impacted by material left over from the formation of the solar system. After a time, the gravity of the solar system's planets and Sun "sucked up" most of the leftover stuff, and the heavy bombardment subsided.

We don't see signs of this on Earth because (1) much of that bombardment happened when the Earth was still relatively molten, and (2) the majority of the Earth's crust from that time has been recycled due to geologic processes and erosion.

We can see evidence of the late heavy Bombardment on the Moon, because the surface of the Moon has been mostly unchanged since that time (there are no lunar geologic processes to recycle the surface and virtually no erosion).

However, there are signs that some water existed on earth prior to this. However, even if comets didn't bring ALL of Earths water through impacts, it is quite possible that the raw materials that originally made up the very very early Earth contained water. I mean, why not? We already know that H2O seems to be just about everywhere we look in the solar system (the clouds of Venus, the rings of Saturn, the atmospheres of Jupiter, Uranus, and Neptune, Europa, Enceladus, Titan...everywhere), so it would not be surprising if the raw materials that made up earth and the other planets were relatively water-rich.

originally posted by: lonesomerimbaud
a reply to: gortex

All this speculation yet there is no definitive proof that there has ever existed any water on Mars.

This is all scientific theory of what might be. As it stands we have not found any life what so ever anywhere in the cosmos other than on the earth. Some scientists have said they have found evidence, but their evidence is not convincing enough because it is too open to interpretation as having been a result of other processes.

But they are sure there is water in the form of ice, flowing water, as in seas, lakes whatever at any time though is not yet definitive. The orbiter has also detected salty water in seasonal slope lineae which to my mind is water, and it's coming out, that's a flow although not an abundance, so unless someone is telling porkies, I can go with that.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

All well put together, can't give you applause, but consider it done!

a reply to: smurfy

flowing water, as in seas, lakes whatever at any time though is not yet definitive.

Curiosity has answered that and there was drinkable flowing water at Gale crater over a long period of time.

NASA have also just announced that they may have found an indication of life on Mars through tests done by Curiosity that show Methane spikes and troughs that could be organic in origin.

In four sequential measurements, Curiosity showed the methane level soaring from about 0.69 parts per billion by volume (ppbv) to 7.2 ppbv.
The spikes occurred within 200 to 300 metres of each other and less than a kilometre from where the lower readings were detected.

By the time Curiosity had travelled a further kilometre, the higher methane levels had disappeared.

In their paper, the US scientists led by Dr Chris Webster, from Nasa's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, wrote: "The persistence of the high methane values over 60 sols (Martian days) and their sudden drop 47 sols later is not consistent with a well-mixed event, but rather with a local production or venting that, once terminated, disperses quickly."

The Nasa authors are cautious about jumping to conclusions, but conclude that "methanogenesis" - the formation of methane by microbial bugs known as methanogens - may be one answer to the riddle.
www.independent.co.uk...

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: smurfy

flowing water, as in seas, lakes whatever at any time though is not yet definitive.

Curiosity has answered that and there was drinkable flowing water at Gale crater over a long period of time.

Gosh yes, I forgot about Gale crater! Thanks for all the other stuff. Methanogenesis Eh! But I guess they are still being cautious about that.
In edit, I have another thought, please bear with me. Yes, NASA is being cautious about the cause of the Methane, but for the purpose of your thread, Methane organic or more importantly inorganic here, it seems, still needs water in it's formation. I don't mind if somebody says I am wrong about that, but if it is correct, water is one of the catalysts for Methane...Mars is farting Methane....

So the black oily liquid organism from the X-files has been found???

a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

All this speculation yet there is no definitive proof that there has ever existed any water on Mars.

Thanks. This is why I like ATS. if you're not careful one can get sucked into the Believers vortex…

"Haven't you heard xyz? Its true, theres proof and lots of threads on it."

Yah… we know.

originally posted by: lonesomerimbaud
a reply to: gortex

All this speculation yet there is no definitive proof that there has ever existed any water on Mars.

This is all scientific theory of what might be. As it stands we have not found any life what so ever anywhere in the cosmos other than on the earth. Some scientists have said they have found evidence, but their evidence is not convincing enough because it is too open to interpretation as having been a result of other processes.

These microbes could have found their way there and adapted over a long period of time. They may well not be the oldest forms of life, just organisms that have adapted to the harsh environment.

I wonder what the definitions of life really are? Is a star not alive? It does not have a consciousness in human terms, but how do we know what its essence is. It is mighty and almost immortal compared to our brief time as organisms. Is not the whole universe alive really?

about water on mars you are wrong. right now one of the rovers is at the foot of a mountain deposited by sedimentary action in a now dry lake bed. additionally crystals have been found that can only form in the presence of water.

originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: thishereguy

and all i'm thinking is. how many of these little things did they kill off when drilling to find the few in the picture?

Exactly. This is what everyone forgets when they get all excited about space exploration:

The Prime Directive.

Yes, I know Star Trek isn't real. But. I happen to be a big believer in the principle. We shouldn't be digging around on other planets looking for life when we have no idea what effects our activities will have on said life.

It's possible that we just killed an entire evolutionary strain by haphazardly digging around like that. Just because we can go to Mars doesn't mean we should go to Mars. We have neither the necessary technological advancement nor the emotional maturity to engage in such endeavors responsibly.

Hate to break it to everyone...

Emotional maturity? Star Trek would have been boring if Capt. James T. Kirk had "emotional maturity." Human beings are closer to Kirk in their emotional maturity than they are the Emotional Maturity of Mr Spock, you are correct about that. I for one do not hold out hope that we could ever raise to the status of Vulcan. Perhaps, as you point out, we ought to, but lets be honest about the fact this will not happen. Out technology has already outpaced our wisdom, and now it is only a matter of time before we destroy ourselves. Some believe this will be repeat. We build tech, we destroy ourselves, and rises and repeat. The alternative is that we invade the Milky Way like the meme machines that we are, and if we do that legacy will the same as planet Earth. Humanity is a virus. How does a virus upload a loft Prime Directive? That answer is simple, it does not. I do expect future humans will pay lip-service to the idea, but they will be no different from us today. Man is not ready to rule the Universe, he never will be...

...until he can rule himself.

(such a man no longer has the need to rule the Universe or anyone else in it).

Maybe the life forms are souls reincarnated into these lower life forms to burn in hell

originally posted by: gortex
Could these exist on Mars ?

Scientists from the International Ocean Discovery Program have sunk the deepest marine drill to a record breaking depth of 2,400m beneath the seabed off Japan and discovered a thriving colony of tiny, single-celled organisms.

The discovery has positive implications for the chances of finding life on Mars and other bodies in our Solar system in my opinion.

Elizabeth Trembath-Reichert, from the California Institute of Technology, who is part of the team that carried out the research, said: "We keep looking for life, and we keep finding it, and it keeps surprising us as to what it appears to be capable of."

We now know Mars had lakes and probably oceans in its past and had an atmosphere that could sustain them for hundreds if not billions of years , if similar organisms formed there then perhaps they still exist in their own protected environment deep bellow the surface of the planet as they do here.

The team found that microbes, despite having no light, no oxygen, barely any water and very limited nutrients, thrived in the cores.

Implications for microbial life on Titan dining on it's abundant hydrocarbons ?

"The thought was that while there are some microbes that can eat compounds in coal directly, there may be smaller organic compounds – methane and other types of hydrocarbons - sourced from the coal that the microbes could eat as well."
The experiments revealed that the microbes were indeed dining on these methyl compounds.

Evidence for carbon molecules on Mars

The crystalline grains encasing the carbon compounds provided a window into how the carbon molecules were created. Their findings indicate that the carbon was created during volcanism on Mars and show that Mars has been doing organic chemistry for most of its history.

"These findings show that the storage of reduced carbon molecules on Mars occurred throughout the planet's history and might have been similar to processes that occurred on the ancient Earth," Steele said. "Understanding the genesis of these non-biological, carbon-containing macromolecules on Mars is crucial for developing future missions to detect evidence of life on our neighboring planet."
carnegiescience.edu...

The findings also have implications for the hunt for life on other planets.
If life can survive in the most extreme conditions on Earth, perhaps it has found a way to cope with harsh environments elsewhere in the cosmos.
www.bbc.co.uk...

I believe our Solar System is home to life outside of what exists here on the Earth and when we as a species finally sort our priorities out and go looking for it we will be amazed at what we find.

\
I just don't see the importance of spending billions to find a single cell organism on another planet. Why is that important. What will it affect and how does it benefit us?

a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

There actually was water on Mars. Check out this awesome learning pdf from NASA. See pages 43-46
www.nasa.gov...

"While most scientists embrace the idea that water
flowed across the Martian surface, how long it flowed,
the amounts that flowed, and the climatic conditions
under which it flowed are still being debated. Images of
channels, meanders, and eroded landforms on Mars
strongly suggest flowing water."

Not try to be confrontational, just wanted people to see this resource.

originally posted by: jlafleur02
I just don't see the importance of spending billions to find a single cell organism on another planet. Why is that important. What will it affect and how does it benefit us?

Did you know that virtually all of todays technology, and certainly most of the electronic technologies around today; are derived directly from Man's mission to reach the moon? Its true, the microelectronics we have today came from space...well the attempts to get there...

The same can be said for nearly every other technology...course then the greatest "invention" of mankind...the microprocessor has been ubiquitous for decades...guess what it's genesis is...

So, basically you owe everything you have to the space program(s)... continuing to push the boundaries will only yield more wonders. Failing to "push" will signal the demise of mankind.

originally posted by: tanka418
Did you know that virtually all of todays technology, and certainly most of the electronic technologies around today; are derived directly from Man's mission to reach the moon? Its true, the microelectronics we have today came from space...well the attempts to get there...

Not according to Philip Corso.

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: tanka418
Did you know that virtually all of todays technology, and certainly most of the electronic technologies around today; are derived directly from Man's mission to reach the moon? Its true, the microelectronics we have today came from space...well the attempts to get there...

Not according to Philip Corso.

Yes...I know...

Did you know that the technology to reverse even something as primitive as 2014 Terrestrial micro-electronics; didn't exist until the 1970's?

We already know that water was once abundant on the surface of mars. Small amounts of water have been found in surface samples, including samples taken very recently. The poles of mars contain a large amount of frozen water ice, in some places covered by a thin layer of dry ice. there have been some finds from orbital imagery that seem to point towards transient hydrological events occurring in modern times.

We don't have much data yet about the abundance and form of subsurface water on Mars, but I wouldn't be surprised if subsurface aquifers might still exist to this day.

Water has been proven to exist on Mars and since this microbe discovery documents organisms that thrive in environments under the surface of earth with extremely small amounts of water, the discovery does bolster the odds that microbial life may exist on Mars today. Trying to diffuse the importance of that discovery by insisting that our discoveries of Water on Mars are somehow still unproven seems extremely obtuse. Those that can't even accept the overwhelming evidence of water on Mars as proof are unlikely to ever accept any evidence of microbes on Mars as proof that life did or does exist there, let alone contemplate it's likelihood based on scientific conjecture and supporting discoveries that make the discovery of life there more likely.

a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

Stars reforming from debris is A scientific THEORY.
Water has been found on mars, hell water has just been found on P62.
Note: polar ice caps.

I would also like to point out how difficult the creation of life is.
The process from mdna to DNA is not understood.
The chance of life actually occurring is unknown. It could be a one off. It's nothing like the chance of water molecules forming or the formation of a star.
DNA is very complex.

news.yahoo.com...

"The rover drilled into a piece of Martian rock called Cumberland and found some ancient water hidden within it. Researchers were then able to test a key ratio in the water with Curiosity's onboard instruments to gather more data about when Mars started to lose its water, NASA officials said. In the same sample, Curiosity also detected the first organic molecules it has found. Mission scientists announced the discovery in a news conference today (Dec. 15) at the American Geophysical Union's convention in San Francisco, where they also unveiled Curiosity's first detection of methane on Mars."

I do not understand how some people find it hard to imagine that there just might be life out there in even our own galaxy.