Photographer Salgado tells AFP 'planet near extinction'

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

And what is that supposed to be?

You asked what my point was. I reminded you because you seemed to have forgotten.
You started out blaming "them" for the state of the world. My point is that "them" is "us."

Citigroup wrote law into the spending bill that reverse dodd frank. It allows THEM to use insured funds for derivatives. Do you think anyone on this site are writing laws that circumvent protections to make money?

a reply to: jaws1975

You are being intellectually dishonest with this conversation, you are not acknowledging what is beyond our control, like politicians ignoring voters iniatives in DC, the massive oil lobbying industry to keep renewable energies too expensive.

On the contrary, I acknowledge that. I have acknowledged that for a long time. I have acknowledged that such interests are the driving force in the denial of AGW. But that isn't the point. The point is that if anything is going to be done differently, it us us who will end up changing our ways. They have obtained their power because we bought what they have been selling.

No doubt you can find something super smart to respond with to show my ignorance to something I just said, but thankfully people that have been on these boards for a while can see through someone with an agenda.

You think I have an agenda because I accept responsibility for my actions and those around me? Don't you think we should?

BTW, what do you think that agenda might be? Do you think I enjoy the fact that my daughter's world will be a less pleasant one than I grew up in?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: jaws1975

You are being intellectually dishonest with this conversation, you are not acknowledging what is beyond our control, like politicians ignoring voters iniatives in DC, the massive oil lobbying industry to keep renewable energies too expensive.

On the contrary, I acknowledge that. I have acknowledged that for a long time. I have acknowledged that such interests are the driving force in the denial of AGW. But that isn't the point. The point is that if anything is going to be done differently, it us us who will end up changing our ways. They have obtained their power because we bought what they have been selling.

No doubt you can find something super smart to respond with to show my ignorance to something I just said, but thankfully people that have been on these boards for a while can see through someone with an agenda.

You think I have an agenda because I accept responsibility for my actions and those around me? Don't you think we should?

BTW, what do you think that agenda might be? Do you think I enjoy the fact that my daughter's world will be a less pleasant one than than I grew up in?

I think you feel screwed like the rest of us. Like the rest of us, you post on a website and do nothing. Your post are just rants cause you know you can do nothing about it. Your to smart to think otherwise. I do enjoy your post though!

a reply to: jlafleur02

I think you feel screwed like the rest of us. Like the rest of us, you post on a website and do nothing. Your post are just rants cause you know you can do nothing about it.

Maybe. But the difference may be that I don't think that "they" are to blame. Whether or not anything can be done to lessen the destruction.

1971:
upload.wikimedia.org...

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: jlafleur02

I think you feel screwed like the rest of us. Like the rest of us, you post on a website and do nothing. Your post are just rants cause you know you can do nothing about it.

Maybe. But the difference may be that I don't think that "they" are to blame. Whether or not anything can be done to lessen the destruction.

1971:
upload.wikimedia.org...

They are not. Its human nature for some to want more. some don't its just there job. Do you think anything can be actually done though? Its a huge machine built over many decades. I have children also and wished it were different.

originally posted by: jlafleur02

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: jlafleur02

I think you feel screwed like the rest of us. Like the rest of us, you post on a website and do nothing. Your post are just rants cause you know you can do nothing about it.

Maybe. But the difference may be that I don't think that "they" are to blame. Whether or not anything can be done to lessen the destruction.

1971:
upload.wikimedia.org...

They are not. Its human nature for some to want more. some don't its just there job. Do you think anything can be actually done though? Its a huge machine built over many decades. I have children also and wished it were different.

I also noticed you removed this from your original post that I quoted

Your to smart to think otherwise. I do enjoy your post though!

Why?

a reply to: jlafleur02
For warming? I don't think anything we can do in the next few decades will have much effect on the changes over the next 50 years. I don't think those changes will be necessarily catastrophic but they will have great impact.

The extreme effects would be seen in the longer term but I do think that it is possible to extend that term, providing more time to adapt to and mitigate. But to do that there have to be significant changes starting very, very soon.

Why?

I'm humble?

We're going to destroy this planet as a habitable place for our species, and many others. That doesn't mean our story ends, or that we should bother to even care.

We survive on billions of years of radiation given off from the sun, encapsulated in and transferred amongst countless creatures over the eons. That transference will continue on. We should not value our life any less in the face of these facts.

Everybody has had a hand in this destruction of our environment. As I frequently say, "There's more than enough blame to go around."

Our greedy consumerism has granted enormous power to the suppliers. How do we, the consumers, take that power back? And, if we were to take that power back, would the suppliers still be able to satisfy our insatiable desire for the latest gadget or affordable fuel or whatever else we deem that we need at the time?

These days a microwave oven is a near necessity. When they become non-operational after a fews years of use, we toss them out because it costs more to repair them than to buy a new one. What's most upsetting about this, to me, is that a simple part that originally cost a few dollars is probably the malfunctioning part. If the part is still available, it takes 15 minutes to replace. Add the service charge and the cost of the part, which is now quite expensive, and it is cheaper to buy a new unit. Of course the new unit has more features, that we'll never use, that gives us more incentive to buy a new one. So we buy a new one. The old unit goes to the landfill because it costs more to recycle the parts than to dig more minerals out of the ground. The same goes for computers, cell phones, LCD televisions, and any other technology we may have.


dex

a reply to: Phage

The illusion is that we ever had a choice! Did I have a choice to not have a centralized bank thrust upon us, did I have a choice to not go into Iraq, do I have a choice to not pay my voluntary taxes when my employer takes them out for me? Books can be written with the amount of examples like this, and the problem is that we as a civilized country(for the most part) don't want to do what has always in the past needed to happen, revolution.

Non participation will not be an option, they make new laws to make you a criminal if you don't play their game. Now don't get me wrong, I know we play a supporting role in this, and that's why we need to collectively wake up, but it's muddying the waters to not be placing 90+ % of the blame on our handlers.

originally posted by: caladonea
a reply to: TrueAmerican

Fifty years from now...planet Earth will be very difficult to survive on; unless we make some serious changes now.

I believe humanity is at a crossroads; it is really scarey to me; what the future may be for all of us.

Fifty years AGO, as a teenager I read an article which spoke about how things in the world would be right now if we did not make serious changes back then. We did not and the dire predictions that were made at that time are now reality. Im with you caladonea. I don't fear for the future any longer. I mourn.

a reply to: jaws1975
I don't have a problem with centralized banking.
Did you have a choice to join the military? I am assuming that's why you went to Iraq.
Who told you that paying taxes is voluntary?

but it's muddying the waters to not be placing 90+ % of the blame on our handlers

Fine.
If that helps you feel better about it. It doesn't work for me.

I'm fairly certain what Phage is trying to say here is that you can't point a finger at anyone, unless it is everyone, yourself included.

The entire issue at hand now, is that people are realizing what is going on, but are becoming frustrated because no one knows what they can do to change anything about the entire situation.

By the time everyone caught on it was all too late. I don't have any master plan for changing the entire methodology of a planet and I haven't heard any from anyone else either. I'm just as guilty of ignoring it and just trying to live my own life one day at a time.

The question now is how can we, the small guys, counter the destruction of the planet today? On an individual basis, how can any of us make a serious enough impact to change the world?

It isn't an easy question to answer, but maybe we should all focus our attention to answering it instead of having frustrated arguements about how helpless we are.

a reply to: Vortiki

The question now is how can we, the small guys, counter the destruction of the planet today? On an individual basis, how can any of us make a serious enough impact to change the world?

I don't think we can, I think this is a spiritual matter now.

originally posted by: jaws1975
a reply to: Vortiki

The question now is how can we, the small guys, counter the destruction of the planet today? On an individual basis, how can any of us make a serious enough impact to change the world?

I don't think we can, I think this is a spiritual matter now.

I can't help, but to believe that we (humanity) have been in this position before.

a reply to: Phage

I don't have a problem with centralized banking.

You should, an iou fiat note system is unsustainable.

Did you have a choice to join the military? I am assuming that's why you went to Iraq.

Sorry, I meant I as in we the country didn't have a choice, I wasn't in the military.

Who told you that paying taxes is voluntary?

The IRS did, interesting that the sixteenth amendment(income taxes) was ratified 10 months before the federal reserve came to be. They had to devise a way to have their interest paid for.

a reply to: Vortiki

Agreed, I think the archeological record is showing that to us.

a reply to: jaws1975

You should, an iou fiat note system is unsustainable.

Yeah. I've heard that.

Sorry, I meant I as in we the country didn't have a choice, I wasn't in the military.

I didn't like it either. That's what happens when you are a citizen of a representative republic. Not perfect but better than other alternatives.

The IRS did,

No, they didn't. Paying income tax is not voluntary. What is "voluntary" is me telling the IRS how much income tax I owe instead of them telling me. Of course, they can always come back at me and tell I did it wrong...or I lied. I could then go to court over it. Haven't had the need.

Eh, it's just one person's opinion.

I'm holding judgment.

Forgive me.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

As for the ones who created the mess and introduced the solution

Nice cop out.

We collectively created the mess. Because we like to burn coal and petroleum. Because we like to eat lots of steak. Because we can. Because it's cheap and easy.

There's a solution? Where?

I have only a moment so maybe it has been said I have not caught up on the thread, but from the time that Ford decided he could make more money from a dirty engine until now, we have been controlled as far as the big picture goes.

When something clean and better for the planet is developed it is bought up and held or the technology disappears. We all know this happens, people, average people who try to lead a change have accidents or are derided and made to look like fools.

The things we can do like not eating meat and choosing not to fill our emotional void with trash from China is not the big picture even though I know this needs to be done also, the basis of our heat, power and transportation in the world are the things we need changed.